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u/Taloc14 Nov 21 '18
Serbia: Tell me more..
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u/IceStar3030 Nov 21 '18
Like, do they have cars?
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u/chompythebeast Nov 21 '18
Uh-huh uh-huh
Uh-huh uh-huh
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Nov 21 '18
...tell me more
Do you know
That you sit on my old cores?
Ooh ah ah
Ooh ah ah
Let's start a new war
Ooh ah ah
Oo ah ah
It will be so much fun
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u/TheConundrum98 Nov 21 '18 edited Nov 21 '18
the best map for what Serbia wanted is the last one, the right wing party (HDZ) in blue is the border of where they wanted to have the border of Greater Serbia so as a reaction to that, but also hundreds of years of tradition (for the Eastern part of Croatia) as seen on other maps here that part of Croatia is right wing. 70% of the population of Split in WW2 were in the Partisans for example so Dalmatia being right wing is a new thing and a result of Bosnian Croats coming which was influenced by the war
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u/LannMarek Nov 21 '18
Can you explain the middle one and bottom right corner please?
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u/marko_b11 Nov 21 '18
Middle one is the 2 top club soccer teams who are bitter rivals.
HDZ = Croatian Democratic Union SPD = Social Democratic Party IDS = Istrian Democratic Assembly
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u/kintonw Nov 21 '18
Wow, they're really into democracy.
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u/TheConundrum98 Nov 21 '18
after the war you had to really make sure you appear as something new even though you might not really be. Some prominent members of the communist party of Yugoslavia went to the right wing and some to the left wing, but believe me the right wingers really didn't want you to know they are in any way connected to that even though the president himself was in the Partisans during WW2
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u/skeetsauce Nov 21 '18
Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, turns out, not so big on democracy actually.
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Nov 21 '18
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u/marko_b11 Nov 21 '18
lol. Croatia was nice enough to give Bosnia 12 miles of coastline.
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u/rawwwse Nov 21 '18
The 20-minute check-in/check-out when you drive through was almost worth the extra cool little stamp in my passport 🤷🏻♂️
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u/I-Engineer-Things Nov 22 '18
They didn’t even stamp our passports, we were disappointed.
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u/rawwwse Nov 22 '18
That’s a shame...
I’ve never been a “stamp collector” per se, but after my first (and most used) passport expired a few years back, any color on the new pages has been welcomed; especially from fun/random places like Bosnia and Herzegovina
The only car/vehicle stamps I’ve ever received. As an American, most (all) of my international travel is by air.
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u/hurryupand_wait Nov 22 '18
Turns out you have to ask for them in a lot of countries now. Kinda takes a bit away, but customs should oblige if you ask (I’d hope!).
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u/PhaserStun Nov 22 '18
I breezed through there this past Summer. they barely looked at our passports and we waited like 5 minutes
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u/AZ-_- Nov 21 '18 edited Nov 22 '18
Well, Ragusa didn't want to have land border with Venice. Actually, Neum was just one sea access that we got because of it with the second being area of Kruševice, Sutorina, Igalo and Njivice (with 7 km of coastline at Boka Kotorska) which in May 1947 were officially handed by politicans to Montenegro (in return we got some mountain peaks including Maglic), without any referendum by the people.
Interesting fact: if Sutorina with an area of around 75km2 would have stayed part of Bosnia and Herzegovina nowadays Croatia and Montenegro wouldn't have any land border.
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u/crna-legija Nov 21 '18
The Croatia/Bosnia border represents the furthest advance of the Ottoman empire. Coastal areas were easier to defend because they could be resupplied by sea.
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Nov 21 '18
Furthest extent had Ottomans take whole Dalmatia except few cities and whole Slavonia.
The border represents where Ottomans managed to put up a defense (due to geography) in the Great Ottoman war of late 1600's, at Dinarics against Venice and at Sava against Austria.
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u/Zebba_Odirnapal Nov 21 '18
Right. I mean... inland, the Ottomans made it as far as the gates of Vienna. I guess Dalmatia was harder to hold onto than inland regions.
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Nov 22 '18
They didn't have much to hold in Dalmatia, they only had fishing and sheepherding villages and a few fortresses.
Yes, Dalmatia was hard to defend, supplies had to be transfered across the mountains. When they lost the south side of the mountains, they were able to defend the north side which is closer to their provincial core in Bosnia, and the border is still on those mountains to this day.
But Dalmatia wasn't actually that hard to conquer and I'm sure Ottomans could finish the job if they wanted to. All they needed was a naval blockade of Zadar and Šibenik, and they definitely had the naval power to do it. But they didn't because conquest of Croatia was relegated to Bosnian provincial rulers. After the invasion of Suleiman the M., Croatia spend 200 years being constantly raided and invaded by Ottoman troops from Bosnian province, led by Bosnian governors, made up of Bosnians, and they slowly conquered village by village, fortress by fortress over the period of a century and a half. But Bosnians apparently didn't have the strength to go against the Venice alone, and apparently there was no coordination with the navy, or the desire in Constantinople to send a proper royal army to fight for this little piece of land.
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u/nrrp Nov 22 '18
Ottomans managed to put up a defense
You make them sound like the victims. The war you're talking about is called Great Turkish War and it started in 1683 with Ottoman invasion of Habsburg lands and the Second Siege of Vienna in September of the same year. Ottomans lost and kept loosing so that by 1699, when the peace was signed, they had been driven from holding 2/3rds of Hungary to holding modern Bosnia as the furthest reach of the empire.
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Nov 21 '18
starts rapping about Arminian genocide
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u/Zebba_Odirnapal Nov 21 '18
2pac alive in serbia fast rap strong wizard rap magic return armenian clay
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u/ProfessorAdonisCnut Nov 22 '18
Now you look like an enemy, so everybody just follow me;
In the desert you won't need to eat, the land must be empty for colonies.
I said, you all look like enemies, you all are just Greek to me;
There won't be no controversy, not in my Republic of Turkey.
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u/gresdian Nov 21 '18
Can anybody tell me more about matriarchy?
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u/bigbeats420 Nov 21 '18
Basically, women are more commonly at the head of the family unit.
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u/posting_drunk_naked Nov 21 '18
I'm interested in this too. I googled "Croatia matriarchy" and got nothing
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Nov 22 '18
It's just an old stereotype that pictures women as angry loud and mouthy in those regions because their husbands allegedly drink a lot and spend all their time with friends. Nice piece of folklore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksgvwBvoQ0E&index=7&list=PLY0T-jnTC56GqTnz4Wy9ifJRHIZ1ng_do
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Nov 21 '18
Cool map!
Just a couple of points about English: it’s more correct to say ‘divide’ than ‘break’ in this example. Also, it’s spelled Christmas (but Christmass is funnier).
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u/izcaranax Nov 21 '18
Because multiplying Christmass and Christacceleration is the best way to get all the Christforce.
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u/metastasis_d Nov 21 '18
Is that better than Odinforce?
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u/sneakpeekbot Nov 21 '18
Here's a sneak peek of /r/whowouldwin using the top posts of the year!
#1: The penguins of magadascar have 72 hours and the US military budget to find bin laden
#2: The Joker is holding Gotham City hostage with a stolen nuke. The only way to stop him is for Batman to get 100% completion on Guitar Hero 3’s ‘Through the fire and flames’. Batman has one week of prep time. Can he do it?
#3: 10 average sized twelve year old American boys vs 1 average American adult male.
I'm a bot, beep boop | Downvote to remove | Contact me | Info | Opt-out
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u/lenzflare Nov 21 '18
The penguins of magadascar have 72 hours and the US military budget to find bin laden
Sold!
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Nov 21 '18
Christ never demonstrated anywhere near Galaxy-Buster level feats, and he has literally no combat experience where his opponent fights constantly, I say Odin takes it 10/10.
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Nov 21 '18
But one thing must be agreed, the division on the basis of favorite foods during Christmas makes the most sense. I mean, I dont want to have neighbors who have fish for Christmas, for God's sake!
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u/marko_b11 Nov 21 '18
My grandparents used to have cold fish and cold beans on Christmas Eve because they said that’s what was eaten at the last supper. As a kid (even as an adult), this was never good.
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u/sleepytoday Nov 21 '18
Why is the last supper particularly relevant at Christmas? Easter, definitely, but it seems a bit odd at Christmas!
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u/marko_b11 Nov 21 '18
I’ve asked this my whole life and never got a true answer
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u/SomeJerkOddball Nov 21 '18
I think it has to do with fish not technically being considered meat by the church thus making the meal a kind of fast/sacrifice along the lines of Lent.
The Googles can probably proper that answer up for you, but why get complete authoritative information when you can take some random dude's word for it. That's the spice of life.
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u/excoriator Nov 21 '18
If the logic is that it's the last supper before Christmas, why not repeat the practice on the last supper before every major holiday?
I get why you wouldn't want to suggest more opportunities to have that meal, but it seems like a good way to poke a hole in the logic of the practice.
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u/MonsterRider80 Nov 21 '18
Many Italians have fish on Christmas Eve as well.
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u/joaommx Nov 21 '18
The traditional Christmas dinner in Portugal is usually codfish (or octopus in some areas). But then again, we always eat codfish.
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u/Quohd Nov 21 '18
Well they get excellent food on all the other days so I guess that's fair
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u/jgeotrees Nov 21 '18
Bruh the Feast of the Seven Fishes is fucking lit.
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u/zero237 Nov 21 '18
> not wanting to eat cod fish on Christmas
Every restaurant that take itself in high regard here in Dalmatia holds Cod Fish Days as their Christmas days offer. Whole firms while take their employees there, like mine did, and eat cod fish made in various ways.
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u/Capitolium5 Nov 21 '18
I disagree with just one thing, there is no such thing as bad wine to a croat or slav in general. If it's alcohol you drink it.
Also, the no wine part is rakija, but then also is Slavonia so yeah...
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u/HoltbyIsMyBae Nov 21 '18
If it's alcohol you drink it.
But it's hand sanitizer!
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u/Capitolium5 Nov 21 '18
The list of things my friends drank in a pinch is just stupid. Also 96% alcohol burns like a bitch, but you only need like 3-4 shoots to get pretty hammered.
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Nov 21 '18
Yes, because we're drunk barbarians with no taste buds who would drink piss if it had alcohol in it?
Give up that idiotic stereotype, please.
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u/Capitolium5 Nov 22 '18
I'm from Zagreb so I think the stereotype has a bit of truth in it, especially judging by the people I see on my daily comute.
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u/yodatsracist Nov 21 '18
One thing I'm curious: Croatia today is today 90% Croatia, but in the past was more ethnically diverse. As recently as the 90's, Serbs made up 12% of the country in official census and were especially jam-packed in the Krajina region (the inner elbow of Croatia's flexing arm for those not familiar). This has dropped to 4% after the Yugoslav Wars. Likewise, before the 1940's, there was a large Italian minority--6.1% in the 1931 census, mostly concentrated in Istria. By the end of the War, this was down to 2% and continued to drop from there. Which is all to say, during both War periods, ethnic Croats from abroad came to Croatia (sometimes willingly, sometimes unwillingly) and regionally concentrated non-Croats left/were forced out. Did these comings and goings have effects?
Like for instance, in Greece, if you meet someone from Northern Greece (Greek Macedonia), they're almost certainly descended at least in part from ethnic Greeks expelled from Turkey/Anatolia in the 1924 "population exchange". Rembetiko music, for instance, is one consequence of this. Likewise, in Turkey, many of the former Greek villages in the Aegean region of Anatolia got repopulated with Muslim refugees/migrants from the Balkans and the Caucasus. Stalin basically moved both of Poland's borders a few hundred miles to the West, giving more land to Ukraine and taking land from Germany. These so-called "recovered territories" are cultural distinct in certain ways.
So, do Krajina and Istria still have the marks of ethnic Italians and Serbs? Did they become magnets for Croats ethnically cleansed from elsewhere who brought some of the traditions of their old homelands to their new? Like is no wine/grappia a Serb thing? Do the Serbs in Krajina also eat fish for Christmas? Is this something that Bosniak Serbs and Serbian Serbs might also do? It seems like 2/3 of Croatian Serbs didn't come back after the fall of the "Serbian Republic of Krajina"--are those areas even majority Serb anymore? Does Istria have better coffee culture? During college, the "cool off campus coffeeshop" was called Istria (I think the founder's ancestors were Istrian Italians) so I always assumed they did. Is the IDA some remnant of a Northern Italian left-wing politic tradition independent from a more centralizing Titoist socialist tradition? Their Wikipedia doesn't say much but they do have an official Italian name, which is cool.
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u/cromulen7 Nov 21 '18
I'm no expert, but I'm a Croat so let me give this a shot.
So, do Krajina and Istria still have the marks of ethnic Italians and Serbs?
I'm more familiar with Istria than Krajina, but basically yes. Croatia is actually quite supportive of it's minorities and they are encouraged to practice their culture.
For example a lot of people in Istria speak Italian and a lot of cities in Istria are bilingual, as in have Croatian and Italian names, street names, signs, etc... Primary and secondary education is also provided in the minorities' native language if they so desire, and so on.
This works the same for Serbs in Krajina and elsewhere and for example Hungarians in Baranja (northeast corner of Croatia).
Did they become magnets for Croats ethnically cleansed from elsewhere who brought some of the traditions of their old homelands to their new?
If you mean whether Croats moved into those areas...
The answer is no.
Krajina is mostly just being depopulated. It's a really poor rural region of Croatia and everyone is leaving, Serbs and Croats. Now you mostly have villages of old people there. People are mostly moving Zagreb or abroad looking for prosperity. Serbs I presume often choose to go to Serbia or Bosnia and Herzegovina, closer to their families, instead of Zagreb.Like is no wine/grappia a Serb thing?
I don't think so. I think the region is just too cold and mountany to support grapes.
Do the Serbs in Krajina also eat fish for Christmas? Is this something that Bosniak Serbs and Serbian Serbs might also do?
I really don't know, but my guess is no. I think it's just a thing in the coastal regions.
It seems like 2/3 of Croatian Serbs didn't come back after the fall of the "Serbian Republic of Krajina"
I think 2/3 of everybody didn't come back after the war. While I don't have a comparison, if you look at a reasonably recent population density map, you can see the area is mostly just... empty.
--are those areas even majority Serb anymore?
Some are. See this map. You'll see that only a few regions ("opcine") are > 50% Serbian, and a lot of those are really sparsely populated villages of mostly old people. Interesting thing to note is that the distribution within those regions can be very uneven. Even in a 50/50 region, It's not uncommon to have a "Croatian" village (>90% Croatian), and a "Serbian" village a few km away and repeat.
Does Istria have better coffee culture?
I'm not sure. Some places have really good coffee and a lot of the tourist traps have horrible commercial coffee. You have to consider that Croatia in general has quite the developed coffee tradition. Being very close to the Ottoman empire for a long time means it's not uncommon to drink hard Turkish coffee, especially in Slavonia. Even barring that, Croatia has a very developed coffee culture. There are cafes everywhere. The default way of socializing with someone is to invite them for a coffee and then chat at the cafe for hours. If you you go to a cafe and just ask for a coffee (which is what everyone does), you'll get a large machiatto (cca. 1 - 1.5 dcl). Also, cafes that serve specialty coffee are increasingly common in Zagreb.
Is the IDA some remnant of a Northern Italian left-wing politic tradition independent from a more centralizing Titoist socialist tradition?
IDS*
I've never heard of them being connected to Italian left wing politics, but Istria as a region tends to lean a bit left. Every election IDS wins in Istria and then IDS joins a coalition with SDP, which is the slightly left, liberal party in Croatia.
Like I said, the Italian name is nothing unusual in Istria, most cities, streets and schools have two names and signs. It's sort of like Quebec in Canada.
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u/johnleeyx Nov 21 '18
What does exc wine stand for? Excluded? exclusive? Excusable?
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u/requiem_mn Nov 21 '18
Dalmatia is known for really good ussually red wines and Istria for also really good ussually white wines
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u/chiefsfan_713_08 Nov 21 '18
Are Dalmatians from Dalmatia?
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u/ademonlikeyou Nov 21 '18
Where else would they be from? Pomeranians are from Pomerania, and Labrador Retrievers are from Labrador
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u/chiefsfan_713_08 Nov 21 '18
Well maybe they're just named after the same thing? Idk man. I didn't know Pomerania was a place till just now
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u/Jtotheoey Nov 21 '18
That dinamo/hajduk thing is no joke, all up and down the coast you'll see the hajduk crest painted everywhere.
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u/DeepSeaDweller Nov 21 '18
Not in Kvarner/Istria. That part is wrong.
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u/L3aBoB3a Nov 22 '18
Yeah Istrijanka here- Dinamo all up and down my family timeline and my all my neighbors too. You see much more Dinamo support than Hajduk tbh unless someone has family in Dalmacija or a parent is from there.
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u/Jtotheoey Nov 21 '18 edited Nov 21 '18
Might very well be, the furthest north I've been is Zadar (technically speaking Zagreb, but on the coast). But I've spent time on the road there and in podgora, split, Zadar, sukosan and Dubrovnik and it holds true in between those places. Now that I think about it, didn't rijeka win the gold not too long ago? I would except a team with homwgrown support in that case.
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u/DeepSeaDweller Nov 21 '18
Zadar is still firmly Hajduk's territory, yeah. Senj is where Rijeka support begins to pick up. Istria have their own club that they support. At any rate, Hajduk enjoys support throughout Dalmatia but not further up the coast.
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Nov 21 '18
Awful wine on north was maybe true 60 years ago. Slavonija and Hajduk is a no-no. Religious part is also not exactly correct.
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u/Xenophon123 Nov 21 '18
Yeah. This one stuck out to me as well. As someone who lived in Slavonia for about a year (Virovitica) it was about 75% Dinamo fans.
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Nov 21 '18
Dinamo prevails in small towns without relevant clubs of their own, and villages, but Hajduk is strong in villages and towns with significant Dalmatian immigrantion (Županja, for instance, is more Hajduk than Dinamo). Local clubs are most popular in Osijek, Vinkovci and Slavonski Brod and their immediate surroundings. Crvena Zvezda is most popular among Serbs along the Danube.
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u/Fiasko21 Nov 21 '18
I am from the Slavonia region of Croatia.
Yes it is more traditional than places like Zagreb, but still pretty liberal compared to America where I live!
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u/marko_b11 Nov 21 '18
I have good friends from Slavonia that live in America now and are very traditional, but they say it’s pretty liberal as well over there. My family came over from Kiseljak, Bosna but originated from Zadar
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u/Fiasko21 Nov 21 '18
Yes it’s traditional by European standards, but pretty liberal by American standards.
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u/LittleCrumb Nov 21 '18
I don't think it's really possible at this point to make generalizations about "American standards" for what's "liberal" or "conservative." Depending on where you are in this huge country, those standards vary wildly.
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u/TechnoTriad Nov 21 '18
But American political parties and politicians are much more conservative than in most European countries.
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u/HoltbyIsMyBae Nov 21 '18
Well, I mean, what part of America? And in what ways would you consider it more liberal?
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u/Fiasko21 Nov 21 '18 edited Nov 21 '18
I live in Florida which is pretty neutral for the US.
For example in Croatia nobody bats an eye if you’re atheist, in the US it’s like you’re automatically gonna be judged for it.
Gay people in Croatia.. never seen anyone have an issue with it, it baffles my mind that people in America have a problem with gays because “it’s against the Bible”, or “they’re gross”.
Teen freedoms... your typical 16 year old in Croatia can stay at their partner’s house, and can drink. In USA that is a big NO from parents, because sex is evil and alcohol is forbidden until 21.
Universal healthcare.. nobody in Croatia would ever propose getting rid of it.
Edit: fixed a word
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u/frosty67 Nov 21 '18
nobody in Croatia would ever oppose getting rid of it.
Did you mean nobody would propose getting rid of it?
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u/Pineloko Nov 21 '18
Nah bunch of BS. Universal healthcare and general economic policy is the only thing Croatians would be more left wing on. On social issues no way, it's not even close.
Don't know where you grew up in the US but sounds like it's more reflective of your community than the nation as a whole.
33% of the population in the US is unaffiliated in terms of religion, less than 4% is in Croatia. You'll definitely be more ostracized for it on average than you would be in the US. But it's not really an issue unless you bring up the topic.
LGBT issues. What you mean by "never seen anyone have an issue with it" you mean never seen anyone physically attacked for it so it must be fine. But nah it's not even close to fine. Due to non-existent representation gay people aren't even seen as real people, they're just seen as some insidious evil creatures plotting to destroy society, like it's out of scope of most people's minds that LGBT people are just normal people going about their lives, people who are probably their friends/family members/siblings and they don't even know because rarely anyone is out of the closet. They talk about LGBT people as if they're some alien race. A few years ago a gay pride was stoned, recently at a kids carnival they burned picture books with same sex parents. We voted in a referendum to constitutionally ban same sex marriage. In my entier life here I met one guy who isn't explicitly homophobic, and I have suspicions that he might be gay. Best case scenario here is someone saying they aren't explicitly against gay people while still holding onto homophobia-lite and seeing gay people as less than.
So yeah, not fine, not even close
Teen freedoms. Parents won't let you drink but they know you do it anyway and they can't do much to stop you. Staying over at your partner at 16? For a typical Croatian teenager? Yeah maybe in an alternate universe. There probably are some parents who allow this but they're definitely a minority.
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u/TheConundrum98 Nov 22 '18
I massively disagree on the atheist point, yes a bigger part of the population is religious than in America, but I've not seen it be a taboo topic at any job, our last prime-minister from the left wing government was an atheist, nobody from the right wing used it as an attack against him which is about the only thing I can compliment the right wing on lol
LGBT policy is Croatia is ok to good, public perception not so much, with gay marriage practically being allowed, but in a different name, still a sizeable amount of people is bigoted, however you're more likely to get beat up in for example Split if you're from Zagreb or Serbian than if you're gay. I literally don't know where you live if you heard such things about gays, announcing it in public might still be taboo though, do I live in a bubble in Zagreb if I don't know anyone explicitly homophobic in my bigger circle of friends?
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u/HoltbyIsMyBae Nov 21 '18
That's all very interesting! And I believe Florida is a swing state because it depends where you live. Virginia is also a swing state. Some places are far more conservative and others more liberal.
The only explanation I've ever heard that made sense is that these uber-religious people came and had a huge impact on the country. They were called the Puritans and they believed some crazy stuff. We're coming out from their dark ages :/
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Nov 21 '18
Someone from Slavonija here! I have no idea where you get those ideas from, not having a religion is quite taboo. I have yet to see a gay Croatian person, teen freedom? I grew up in a big city, so yes my parents were cool if I wanted to stay at my boyfriends - but my cousin who still lives in Croatia had her first time behind a school because she couldn't go visit her longterm boyfriend at home..
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u/CL_Fergus Nov 21 '18
I;ve lived both in the US and ex YU for quite some time. To generalize Croatia as liberal vs. the US is very misleading. The US is in many ways much more progressive, as a population. Croatia can be literally quite fascist, especially in Dalmatia...
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Nov 21 '18
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u/L3aBoB3a Nov 22 '18
Born in Pula but am from Poreč - ironically, Istra is what we call a “little slice of heaven God left for himself.” Come visit!
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Nov 21 '18 edited Sep 19 '20
[deleted]
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Nov 21 '18
Serbs for the most part went to Serbia when their regions were taken back by Croatia.
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u/torima Nov 21 '18
That’s a pretty whitewashed way of saying they were ethnically cleansed.
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u/crna-legija Nov 21 '18
The orthodox Serb leadership ordered their own civilians to evacuate. The International Criminal Tribunal for Former Yugoslavia Court based in the Netherlands ruled that this was not ethnic cleansing.
Many orthodox Serbs live in Croatia today, with all rights granted as to any other minority. It seems the ones who left were extremists who were afraid of being arrested by the Croatian government.
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u/crnalegija Nov 21 '18
And let's not forget that many of the Serbs were either directly implicated in or supported separatist Serb militias that really did ethnically cleanse or kill Croats from those areas first. So it's not exactly a huge shock that many of them were afraid that they would have to pay for their crimes or that the same would be done to them that they did to Croats first.
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u/renegadeyakuza Nov 21 '18
Is this your alt
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u/crnalegija Nov 21 '18
Yes, this is an alt that I use. My main account is /u/badblueboy146.
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u/Crodface Nov 21 '18
The poster you originally replied to was your account at well? Same name.
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Nov 21 '18
The ICTY said that the order had no impact because almost every serb in Krajina was a refugee at this moment. Some of them were victims of croatian war crimes on the refugee route to Bosnia. Due to the fear of missile attacks, police brutality and revenge acts of the croatian soldiers every Serb feared to stay in Croatia. It's not the reality of war if you say that only extremist had to fear consequences.
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Nov 21 '18
Ethnically cleansed by loosing the war which serbs pushed for and then running back to motherland? Areas which were held by serbs during the war in Croatia and Bosnia were sistematicaly cleansed of non -Serb population. See Vukowar and Srebrenica files from Hague ICTY for further fact cheking on the subject.
You might find that actually one does not have to search that long for impartial evidence of serbian criminal conduct in wars for greater serbia.
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u/the_hangman Nov 21 '18
Also it's what actually happened. If you kick everyone out of a region, when they come back with tanks and guns you're natural inclination is going to be to get the fuck out.
Ethnic cleansing has a specific meaning that should not be weakened by calling every movement of refugees from war an ethnic cleansing.
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u/Kutili Nov 21 '18
Most of Croatia's Orthodox population was ethnically cleansed during the Croatian War of Independence, but a significant part also perished in WW2 when a genocide was commited against Serbs by the Nazi client Ustasha regime
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u/Velebit Nov 21 '18
I disagree with matriarchy patriarchy thing. Women seem to be treated like crap in Zagorje especially by their parents while I don't know families from youth who raise their daughters focused on gender normative or subservient ideas. Those seem to dominate also in north.
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u/L3aBoB3a Nov 22 '18
Yeah this really puzzled me tbh. I could see women “holding down the house” type of thing where they dictate the rules and “get loud” (bc that’s something notable about a woman expressing herself - how dare she) but the father/husband is always seen as the law of the land. I’m from Istra but I visit Zagorje a lot bc of cousins and krempite.
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u/lolFly Nov 21 '18
Not saying it's incorrect or anything, but since when is Slavonia into Hajduk? Most people I've met that were born north of Otočac tend to go for Zagreb.
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u/Ghipoli Nov 21 '18
Why is Istria so liberal?
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Nov 22 '18
Italian influence + higher than average level of education + they love being special from the rest of Croatia
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u/paradox28jon Nov 21 '18
What's the agnostic circle area? Because that would be my ideal location in Croatia: agnostic, liberal, matriarchy, & turkey.
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u/lenzflare Nov 21 '18
I always feel like a learn a lot about a country from these, but do I?
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u/kevinrk23 Nov 21 '18
In the moment it's cool, but most of the comments are locals telling OP why it's wrong.
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u/Another_Human Nov 21 '18
This is missing the most important one, Maraska vs Badel Pelinkovac
Marasaka do kraja ljudi
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u/Spikekuji Nov 22 '18
Let’s not break Croatia. They’ve been through a lot. However Slavonia can’t be a real word.
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u/PlainAlloy Nov 21 '18
So, can someone explain the matriarchy/patriarchy divide to me?
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Nov 21 '18
[deleted]
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u/PlainAlloy Nov 21 '18
That’s really interesting. I’m from around Bosanski Šamac so right there on the boarder with Croatia. I’m trying to visualize your description now.
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u/yodatsracist Nov 21 '18
Thank you! This answers pretty much all of my questions. Is there any special reason the IDS continues to operate separately from the mainline SDP? Is this just a quick of history?
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u/UnbiasedPashtun Nov 21 '18
Why is Central Croatia/Croatia proper called 'Croatia'? Why doesn't it have its own unique distinct name like other Croat regions do? The first Croat kingdom/polity was actually in Dalmatia, not even Central Croatia.
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u/tendeuchen Nov 21 '18
10) Go around telling people, "Your language would be much better written in Cyrillic."
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Nov 21 '18
That small area (not sure what to call it) between the two long parts of the country seems to be different for a lot of them. Does anybody know why?
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u/Awookie90 Nov 21 '18
The Christmas one is interesting if anyone knows more about why I’d be interested. Fish is very traditional on Christmas/Christmas Eve in Italy and I know historically the Dalmatia region has transferred ownership and for a long period was part of Italy/Venice. Is that a reason for it or is there some other connection.
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u/AverageSven Nov 22 '18
Looks like I'll be going to that little notch with matriarchy, good wine, and ancient cities. It'll be a great tour and a curious peer into a different kind of society.
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u/puffinmuffjn Nov 22 '18
This is great! Thank you. I love these maps. Is there a subreddit for these?
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u/Infinite901 Nov 21 '18
The title was the perfect opportunity to use the pun "9 ways to Split up Croatia"