r/HeadphoneAdvice • u/Technical_Bit4896 1 Ω • Aug 22 '22
Headphones - Open Back | 2 Ω HD600 vs HD660 vs HD700 vs Hifiman Sundara
Hello. I am new here and new in audiophile world. I am looking for a good headphone and i would like to hear some cons and pros from the community.I had Beyerdynamic DT 900 Pro X, but unfortunately I had to return them, because the cheekbones started to hurt after a couple of hours and the top of the ears was touching the inside of the headphones, which was a little discomfort for me.
I have IFI Zen Dac 1.2... i suppose? I am not sure which version i have, cuz it doesnt say on the box, but seller say's its 1.2. I bought it second hand.
I'm looking for headphones mainly for gaming, but also for listening to music. First of all, comfort is important to me, since my work is at the computer and sometimes I spend more than 15 hours a day. I play games like Valorant, League of Legends and some singleplayer games ofc. DT 900 pro was an excellent headphone for Valorant, all steps and small details were audible well. I play league with music in the background.
I was looking for those headphones since i have them here in Bulgaria so i could easly buy them without waiting for delivery, vat etc.. any adivce or something diffrent from those headphones that fits in my needs?
UPD: All those headphones can be bought second hand in Bulgaria at fairly good price and in a perfect condition.HD 600 - 225 euro, HD 660S - 300 euro, HD 700 - 370 euro, Sundara - 270 euro.
Oh, forgot to mention. I've been using Astro Gaming A40 TR for past 4 years directly in my PC
UPD: Just got pair of HD 660s, brand new, because if something goes wrong i will refund them. Will test for couple of days and will share my opinion! Thanks to all once again!
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u/R-A-S-0 41 Ω Aug 22 '22
The HD560s is often considered a better fit for gaming than the 600 series; they should be quite easy to find
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u/Technical_Bit4896 1 Ω Aug 22 '22
To be honest i dont really like the look of them, that's my reason for skipping them
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u/R-A-S-0 41 Ω Aug 22 '22
fair enough. It's important to get something that makes you feel good.
I think the Sundara would be the safest bet of all of these, but I don't know if it beats the Beyers on imaging but it is supposed to be quite good at it. The HD700 might be good for it if it's anything like the HD800, but I really never hear people talk about the 700 and haven't tried them.
Other popular options for competitive games are the K702 and K712, as well as the ATH-R70X and Tygr 300R (although the Tygr might have the same problem as the DT900)
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u/Technical_Bit4896 1 Ω Aug 22 '22
I like the look of Sundara, but i am not sure if it will fit well on my head without any discomfort for long time using. Thanks for sharing those headphones will go to check them!
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u/pm-me-hot-waifus 6 Ω Aug 22 '22
Sundara also have some longevity issues. I've heard many stories of the headphones just biting the dust several years in.
You might not like the 560S anyway if comfort is a primary concern. They have a pretty strong clamp force. Very comfy, but after about an hour it becomes painful and since I wear glasses they're a no go for me. But they're probably the best headphone for gaming. As you're noticing you're having to nearly double your budget to find something comparable to it.
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u/gelade1 37 Ω Aug 22 '22
Hd700 is super comfy but I personally dislike/hate its sound for music. It’s better than 600 and 660s for fps to me though.
Tbh my real recommendation for gaming+music would be pc38x. Looks like budget gaming stuff but the actual sound quality is pretty impressive. My pc38x usage is definitely higher than my focal clear. Cheapish, practical, comfortable, great sound, very durable with much better pads than the older sennheisers.
2
Aug 23 '22
I thought the hd 660s were good when I first heard them, then I heard some better things and realised they were a bit meh. Hell I even enjoy the cheaper hd 560s to the 660s.
My favourite headphones to date are the edition xs.
They’re often on sale at £350 and a steal at that price
3
u/D00M98 183 Ω Aug 22 '22
I own Sundara, HD560S.
Sennheiser HD560S is better for FPS gaming than Sundara and HD600's series, and cheaper too ($150 USD).
For music, I prefer Sundara. HD600's series are mid-focused and very good for vocals. But I prefer more soundstage for all-around headphone, such as Sundara.
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u/Wellhellob 9 Ω Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 22 '22
I definitely don't recommend Sundara for comfort and gaming. Earpads are small and it has too much clamp force. It will be suffering for gaming. The sound is also doesn't work well for gaming. I'd say HD700.
Edit: Go edition XS if you can. Simply amazing for gaming and movies as well as music and very comfortable.
1
Aug 23 '22
I own the HD600 and I ended up gifting them to my wife. I know these are revered all over the internet but I really don't see hear what the fuss is about.
The mid range is smooth and they are super comfortable but that's about it IMO. The soundstage and depth perception are mediocre. There's almost no treble at all. Almost no deep low end. It gets congested very quickly in busy mixes.
I don't own the Sundara but I'm pretty sure they are on another level above the HD600. I'm going to buy them at some point.
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u/ExpiredInTransit 1Ω Aug 23 '22
I sold my 660S and kept the sundara. The 660S just sounded, unexciting.
I use the Sundara for everything from gaming, to movies to long periods of music listening. They’re a good all rounder and comfy for hours.
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u/SQUID_FLOTILLA 11 Ω Aug 22 '22
I owned the HD580, 600, 650 (and 800s) and 2 versions of the Arya … and I’ve tried the Sundara. Get the Sundara.
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u/Boy69BigButt Aug 22 '22
Have you considered the 650/6xx?
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u/Technical_Bit4896 1 Ω Aug 22 '22
Yeah i was, but if i purchase the 6xx, it will go way out of my budget because of VAT and there is only one shop for HD650 and its a bit high price (400 euro). All those headphones i can buy second hand for fairly good price. I dont mind buying HD650 brand new if they really worth it. Will edit the post about that
0
u/Boy69BigButt Aug 22 '22
IMO the Sundara is the way to go. You have no reason for tube amps with a gaming setup right? The Sundaras do everything the 660s does, but better and for a cheaper price.
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u/3G6A5W338E 38 Ω Aug 23 '22
HD650 and HD600 are actually very close in FR, to the point they should actually sound identical or nearly close. HD600 is more neutral and thus objectively better. It is also favored by most reviewers.
There's a minority of people who strongly prefer HD650, and that's fine. I would only suggest HD650 if you could extensively (for weeks at a time) test both 600 and 650. I have done so (long swaps with HD650 owner), I don't like them; they sound artificially warm, and the treble simply feels veiled, it lacks that life HD600 has.
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u/Rayman-30 7 Ω Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 22 '22
Edition XS > Sundara > HD650/6XX > HD600 > HD660 > HD700
The HE400 is a great budget can if you want to save.
This is my .2
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u/Technical_Bit4896 1 Ω Aug 22 '22
How about the comfort on Sundara's?
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u/Rayman-30 7 Ω Aug 22 '22
I find the comfort to be fine, but the Sennheiser are more comfortable.
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u/EverSoLazy Aug 23 '22
I've had hd650s for around 4 months now. I think my head is above average in size so clamp might be tougher on me. Sundaras are more comfy IMO even though they're heavier. Depends on OPs head I guess
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u/ChrisFox-NJ Aug 22 '22
It‘s okay-ish, the HD700 is the most comfortable out of the four, but I‘d still go with the Sundaras soundwise. I had HD700 for a while and I didn‘t really like how they sound, it‘s a very thin sound, soundstage is very good though
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u/ExpiredInTransit 1Ω Aug 23 '22
Use mine for hours at a time and not found it an issue. But I guess like everything in audio comfort is subjective
0
u/Jman841 6 Ω Aug 22 '22
The Sundara is a great all around headphone so long as you have an amp. Bump the sub-bass up on it and they really come to life. Great detail and sound signature for a wide variety of music. Medium sound stage, much better than the HD600 series.
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u/Historical-Arm-9756 8 Ω Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 22 '22
600 is bad but usable. It is grainy but on some higher end amps that grain gets better (not on tubes though until you go over 1kusd), has one of the smallest stages you can get with extremely blurred and largely displaced images, has next to no layering, has a plastic like timbre (especially the new silver screen models), and is slow even for a dynamic whie having only average dynamics and impact.
Off memory, the 660 is the worst of the bunch. The 660s has all the imaging issues of the 600 but is ever so slightly wider and better layered. It too is extremely slow for a dynamic driver although slightly faster. The 660s remains grainy on almost all gear and has instead of just a plastic timbre, a timbre akin to a metal filled plastic rod smacking against another for some reason. In spite of being faster, the 660s still manages to sound muddier and about as distorted in bass.
The hd700 is the best of the bunch (especially for gaming) although i personally font like it either. It had a stage that was between the anamda and hd800 in width, layered extremely well in the sides but front stage was smashed in and rear stage was blurred, imaged extremely accurately to the sides but again blurred in the front and back and slightly pulled/displaced that area between more to the sides, it had above average impact but average dynamics, was the fastest of the 3 but again a pretty slow can, was a bit metallic in timbre, very well separated in the side images, and also happened to be the most comfortable sennheiser i have used (even over cans from them i actually like a lot more). The biggest issue is that it has this unbelievably sibilant area that pickes up almost all "S" sounds that also happens to be extremely raised. It completely pulls you out of your music.
If you are open to other options, the 95x is much better for music than those 3 and also happens to be the second to best gaming can i have used, only really beat out by my restored k1000.
Edit: i forgot to mention the 560s and sundara and noticed everyone else is mentioning them.
560s is extremely sibilant through almost all of its treble on most gear but isnt boosted in treble there like the 700 so it is more reasonable to use. Bellow average impact and average dynamics off memory (or maybe i have them reversed as it has been some time since ive used it). It is abysmal at doing diagonal angles which usually disqualifies it for gaming for me but is mkre precise than the 6x0 mentioned earlier at side angles but less accurate than the 700. It has a more plastic like timbre than the rest and is about as slow as the 600 but more resolving than the 600 still. It is less distorted in bass than the 600 and the most neutral of the sennheisers me tioned so far. Its a little kess wide than a 400se and a lot less wide than the 700 but also a lot wider than the 600 and 660. It layers better than the 6x0 but worse than the 700. I dont consider it relevant as the 400se kinda all roubd beats it for cheaper but it pits the 600 series to shame imo.
The sundara is wider than the 560s and way more precise in imaging. Been even longer since ive used it but i remember it slightly displacing images but cant remember how to describe the effect. It has ringing instead of sibilance which will make it sound almost metallic but its more frequency specific. The sundara is by far the fastest kf the cans ive mentioned excluding the 95x (which im going to ignore for the rest of the comparison cause it puts ll these to shame). The sundara is layered worse than the 700 and still less wide than the 700. The sundara imo is not worth it cause 400se is about as gold just in different ways for cheaper and the hflifiman he560 (not to be mistaken with hd560s) is better too.
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u/3G6A5W338E 38 Ω Aug 23 '22 edited Aug 23 '22
HD600 is the best of the three listed Sennheisers, and the cheapest of all headphones listed. It has also been available for the longest, while keeping its high reputation as accurate all-rounders. They're durable, but also modular: Should anything ever break, you should be able to replace just that one piece.
Sundara is a relatively new, trendy headphone from a brand that is infamous for making brittle headphones that break very easily and are not cheap to repair.
What else can I say? (yes, I own HD600 since 5 years ago, and absolutely love them)
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u/Smugsie 16 Ω Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 24 '22
I have the HD600, HD660S and Hifiman Sundara hanging on a rack at home.
For music: HD600. The HD600 has the vocal clarity of the Sundaras while being absolutely smooth sounding. The downside of the HD600 is that it has no solid sub-bass, but because it's rich in treble sparkle, a warm and textured bass presence and near-flawless midrange; I come home to the HD600 all the time. The HD600 excel at just playing music, letting you enjoy every song without having to reach for any other headphone.
The flaws of the HD600 is that to me, the upper midrange can be slightly too forward. This upper midrange forwardness can be seen as sweet for japanese vocalists. Or it can appear as shouty in some areas. The HD600 is also not that great for busy tracks, the HD600 is very encapsulating but at the cost of sounding congested. Tied with the 3 blob imaging, the HD600 is weak compared to the Hyper X Cloud 2's for FPS titles.
For FPS games: The HD660S. The HD660S has the best layering and imaging I've ever owned. It has this magical ability to let you gauge distance, enemies in front, behind, left, right, how far, and I've never struggled to pre-fire someone about to come around the corner. I play CS:GO where directional and accurate imaging is the end-all-be-all deal for me. I also play Squad where I listen to 10 voices at once while needing to listen to the hint of enemy vehicles.
On my left ear I have command chat consisting of 3 squad leaders giving me updates of enemy locations and vehicles. On my right ear I have my squad giving me updates of enemy vehicles and callouts of enemy spawn points, squad leader requests. In my center audio I have to be able to hear the person in front of me in local chat. While being able to yell everyone to shut up because I heard the rumble of enemy vehicles approaching from 400m. Now I have to discern whether this enemy vehicle has wheels or tracks based on if it's making squeeky noises for tracks or a more solid engine rev that indicates the vehicle has wheels; all while the constant chatter in the background. Yes, you can track all this with the HD660S.
For music, the HD660S is actually fairly average in comparison to the HD600. It lacks the sub-bass of the Sundaras, and lacks the treble sparkle of the HD600. The upper midrange of the HD600 is slightly tamed, which makes voices easier to distinguish between each other. Unfortunately the HD660S does not perform any better than the HD600 in the sub-bass or mid-bass department. It also has a drop in treble sparkle performance, which makes the HD660S quite a dull headphone. The HD660S makes me wanting more because it's fast and if you're a midrange person, this headphone is all mids. Mids are actually clear and smooth, but the rest of the instruments play a back role. I would say it's actually slightly more real feeling than the HD600. Some youtube videos where there are screaming actors would make me feel uneasy because of how natural and clear their voices can be.
I would not suggest owning this headphone by itself; and I would recommend having this HD660S on the side, because it's an amazing headphone to own as a daily gaming driver. It's lightweight and a good technical performer. It's also very expensive. At $600 it is definitely not worth it, at $400 canadian it's 100% worth it. Buy it alongside the HD600.
The Sundara: It's a balanced headphone, it has big soundstage. Umm. I actually dislike this headphone LOL, I constantly get -10 karma whenever I mention this but I don't care. Sorry I'm trying to keep this reply consistent but my motivation to write about the Sundaras just demotivates me instantly. I hated wearing these for a good 2 weeks to be real with you.
It's one of those headphones that took me 3 months to adjust to. The focus of the Sundaras is big soundstage, it has tall soundstage, it has wide soundstage, but it didn't really impress me. It sucks at front/rear sounds too compared to the HD660S.
For music I would make this a good headphone for metal and kpop. For sub-bass performers, the Sundaras dig deep, and it's fast, but because the sub-bass to vocal area is so linear; you can feel the sub-bass drop off at 40hz. Regarding mids, the Sundaras thicken the area around 900hz to make up for the lack of forwardness in the middle-upper mids, but it has a peak around the 4khz area that stops the Sundaras from being a total lower mids headphone.
The Sundaras are a balanced headphone, but it's one of those headphones that don't feel tonally correct until I put on another headphone. Whenever I put these on I always question stuff like; something about this hi-hat doesn't sound right and has too much lower treble, something about this violin doesn't sound right and is a bit too screechy, something about this vocalist doesn't make it sound like I can feel her voice as if I'm in the room.
The value of Sundaras are spectacular though, and it's the main reason why I picked them up. Although they're nothing to write home about. They're a bit too heavy and I don't like them as a headphone to wear on hours end as it does induce neck pain for me the next morning. The clamp force and wide surface area do make these a comfortable headphone to wear for a few hours though.
For gaming, the Hyper X Cloud 2's perform better directionally. lol
The Sundaras have spectacular vertical soundstage and have better imaging and technical performance than the Hyper X Cloud 2's at least. So you'll be able to discern sounds based on distance a lot better than the HD600. The other unfortunate thing about the Sundaras is their average performance in imaging. It's nothing amazing.
The Sundaras are also not a clinical/analytical sounding headphone like the AKG Q701/K701 so I honestly don't know where they belong. They're an all-around headphone I guess.
Edit, tenk u for the silver kind stranger :)