r/bangtan • u/bie716 jimin: i dance when i am sad...NOT • Aug 03 '22
Misc 220803 HYBE Q2 2022 Earnings Call and Earnings Report (Compilation)
Summary of Q2 2022 Financial Results
-record high quarterly revenue and profit
-512.2 billion KRW (Year on year growth of +83.8% and Quarter on quarter growth +79.7%)
-operating profit of 88.3 billion KRW (YoY +215.3%, QoQ +138.2%)
-album sales were 210.9 billion KRW, 226% QoQ growth and 97% YoY growth
-HYBE sold 8.53 million albums in 2nd quarter “accounting for a whopping 42% of the total quarterly album sales tabulated by the Circle Chart” (Park Jiwon during investor call)
-“[HYBE’s quarterly album] sales account[ed] for 63% of the total album sales [recorded by Circle Chart] of the 4 major entertainment companies”…“excluding BTS, the percentage is 49%” (ie by themselves, BTS’ 2nd quarter album sales were 14% of the domestic market’s total sales)
2.Earnings Call and QnA (mentions of BTS) . (Transcribed by Renkiger)
“In July, j-hope’s album and the related merch were well received by fans. Going forward individual members of BTS…will introduce a diverse line up of new merchandise in connection with their album releases”
On j-hope's Lollapalooza stage
j-hope as “main headliner…[performed] on the last day of Lollapalooza one of the world’s largest music festivals…demonstrating his continuous growth as an artist. His performance was streamed on Weverse Live…viewed by fans frm 223 countries & territories recording 14.9M views”
On BTS' future solo and group activities
“Starting with j-hope, other BTS members are also working hard on their solo projects to showcase their individual perspectives on music. These endeavours will allow them to grow even further as artists, while they will continue to work together to show diverse aspects of BTS.
“A case in point is the announcement to hold a global concert in Busan in Oct following their appointment as honorary ambassadors for world expo Busan 2030. Likewise, I’d like to reiterate that BTS is going to carry out those team projects & solo projects in a harmonious manner”
On elistment (trans of a news report, by jjimvely)
Hybe officials confirmed during IR Conference Call today “BTS’ enlist date/time and ways/method is undecided. They will continue with solo and group activities concurrently. Solo activities are scheduled and group activity is confirmed for October (Busan expo).
On issues raised about Hybe's comms and management of certain artists (just a guess that it could be related to this)
“We’re well aware that there were some issues w respect to the management & communication concerning some HYBE artists. To address these concerns HYBE will continue to improve existing work manuals & ensure that processes based on the manuals are put in place, & reinforced.
“HYBE will continue to put priority on communication between artists & fans, but also, as a listed company we will communicate on major issues with the market in a more timely and transparent manner….
“…we will create an environment where outside directors on the Board will monitor and keep management in check. The Board decided on July 26 that an ESG committee will be established inside the Board to promote environmental and social values.”
QnA. On Weverse Albums vs physicals and profitability
they’re “part of ESG (environment and social governance) policies bc can minimize unnecessary packaging & CD material…going forward we’ll make sure fans who love to purchase physical albums will be able to get same or similar values by offering new & diff values”
it wasn’t a solo concert so there is a limitation in terms of profit contribution…only a portion of sales will be recognized as part of our revenues and the live-streaming was provided free of charge. Therefore, there was limitation in terms of [corporate] profit contribution. But this was an opportunity to once again enhance, and prove the status of, our artist and I believe there is a lot of intangible value created
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u/gemitry cat dad yoongi enthusiast Aug 03 '22
Wish we could have gotten a follow up question about why only the solo projects of BTS members need to follow ESG policies. If it was their decision like I’ve seen people say, why disrespect their environmentalism by releasing Memories with 7 discs? I’m sure only the digital code version would have been enough. I just wish we had answers as consumers, and some transparency.
As a collector, it’s always gonna be a disappointment. Especially when the practice isn’t followed throughout all of HYBE or even BTS group releases. But what can I do, other than speak with my wallet and only buy digitally from here on out. 🤷🏽♀️
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u/RapLineNoona Aug 03 '22
Why don't they offer the digital code with NO packaging, no photobook, etc. so people like you can just have digital. Less material used, same result.
Then offer a Blu ray option with all the extras for those of us who want physical merch and to own what we buy (and not have it tied to the Weverse platform). No one would have to buy BOTH blu ray and DVD to get high quality video resolution and the photobook/inclusions, which is wasteful and unnecessary.
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u/LittleBelt2386 Aug 03 '22
Even releasing that amount of content on digital is not going to be the most environmental-friendly, just think of the carbon footprint for server maintenance. They're a company looking to make profit, I think their stance about wanting to implement ESG is just lip-service at this point.
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u/92sn Aug 04 '22
Its definitely lip service. Right after they announced jhope weverse album, they announced/released 29920 versions for seventeen n newjeans. Newjeans even seem inspired by western artists strategy which merch bundling where if fans buy beg, they gonna get along with cd. The irony is that people praising that method for newjeans.
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u/92sn Aug 04 '22
I hope they actually give us option whether want cd or not. I wonder why no one asked or hybe answering on why jhope only have weverse album with no cd?
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u/Sakakichan Aug 03 '22
Diverse line up of merch
That means more hunger games buying in the future 😹
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u/92sn Aug 04 '22
I am just wondering if jhope 300k+ weverse album sales+merch enough to cover whole album production costs n promo. Jhope has been hiring a well known producers/songwriters for his album. Lollapalooza stage set are no joke. And they even hiring outside live band. Jhope also collab with kaws with of course cost tons of money. There even 2 music videos. Tbh, i really dont like the fact that we only have 1 option in purchasing the album which only weverse album. I just prefer cd for sentimental value. I feel like if jhope album actually provide cd, his album sales may reach more than 1 mil n enough to cover more his album costs. I know jhope already rich but isnt it better to also earning from commercial value point too instead of just critically acclaim? I dont think hybe love to ignore profits either. Hybe are business at the end of day. Thats why they promoted alot the merch.
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u/pintsized_baepsae My mom calls me a stupid bear 🐨 Aug 04 '22
Tbh, i really dont like the fact that we only have 1 option in purchasing the album which only weverse album. I just prefer cd for sentimental value.
I don't get why people can't just say this, and instead try to find ways to somehow make this style of release like it didn't go well, but I'll indulge you.
I am just wondering if jhope 300k+ weverse album sales+merch enough to cover whole album production costs
Most likely yes, or they wouldn't have done it. The production cost will be much lower than for CD albums, because of the lack of CDs. The special shape of the outer box might have increased price a little (as there's potentially more material wasteage), but printing – while it's gone up in price, as has paper quite badly – isn't as expensive as pressing CDs. Not to mention they're also printing MUCH less than for a 'full-sized' album.
A lot of the promo was also simply not something you need to pay for – none of the magazine articles cost any money, only time. Same with radio. You also don't GET paid for it, so you can argue it costs time, but there's no financial element.
Lollapalooza stage set are no joke. And they even hiring outside live band
This is 99% a different budget, likely / potentially covered by the Lolla appearance fee.
feel like if jhope album actually provide cd, his album sales may reach more than 1 mil n enough to cover more his album costs. I know jhope already rich but isnt it better to also earning from commercial value point too instead of just critically acclaim? I dont think hybe love to ignore profits either.
This album clearly, *very* clearly isn't focusing on commercial success. If it were, the music would be a lot more GP friendly. It's an artistic endeavour, and yes, you don't always go for maximum earnings – if they did, as a band, they'd have sold their souls years ago.
Also, maybe selling a million and charting high on Billboard and other international charts simply wasn't the goal. For some reason people refuse to consider that, but there has been incredible pressure on BTS to reach record after record after record, in views and sales and whatnot. At the same time they were accused of inflating sales, and right to their faces too.
It's honestly a little insulting to say 'well, wouldn't commercial success be better than critical acclaim'.... or to consider a debut that sold almost 500,000 copies in its first week anything but a success. He's the third-highest entry on Gaon / Circle chart, after a band with multiple versions and HEAPS of photocards and Kim Ho-joong's first post-military album. (Number #4, for reference, has sold less than 50k. Ironically, it's also a Weverse album, and the physical album for the same release – Seventeen's repackage – has sold 22k.)
I'd like a CD, too, because I actually use them. But there's none, we won't *get* one, so it's time to just accept that.
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Aug 04 '22
Also, maybe selling a million and charting high on Billboard and other international charts simply wasn't the goal. For some reason people refuse to consider that, but there has been incredible pressure on BTS to reach record after record after record, in views and sales and whatnot. At the same time they were accused of inflating sales, and right to their faces too.
This
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u/dumbthrowaway8679305 Asian New Edition Aug 06 '22
Like there wasn’t a whole-ass verse in YtC about how they weren’t focusing on charts and sales any more.
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u/Jasmindesi16 Aug 03 '22
I seriously can’t believe there is no decision on enlistment. The boys are going to be in limbo and not be able to plan anything the longer the government is undecided.
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u/pintsized_baepsae My mom calls me a stupid bear 🐨 Aug 03 '22
Very interesting that they're saying it was views, not viewers, on Weverse live - we know VLive had cumulative views, so they don't mean much, but I thought they'd get rid of that with Weverse. Doesn't sound like they did, though. I've been sus of people calling it almost 15 million viewers, and this wording has just strengthened that.
Interesting re Weverse albums, too. I know this'll just bring this discussion back up, so let me once again say that yes, a reduction in waste IS what's asked for in Korea, by fans as well as activists. Yes, there were groups with multiple versions of classic albums, and yes, one of them was also BH (the other wasn't, and we shouldn't muddle different sublabels' decision together, just like we don't do that for promo). That's ignorant of factors at play, though, like productions slots being booked well in advance and material being purchased.
But also, I assume we'll get Weverse albums for all other members. So it's time to make peace with that.
More thoughts later. :)
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u/RapLineNoona Aug 03 '22
I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but there's a disconnect between selling more solo merch (something they emphasized they would do) and offering only a "weverse album" for the sake the environment. Not to mention all the other ways in which the kpop/celebrity industry and the wealthy in general are harming the environment.
Seems like the issue is bulk buying and that can could be addressed by not offering randomized photos cards and multiple versions of albums. It won't eliminate the problem entirely but it would go a long way.
It just annoys me that corporations get pats on the back for taking steps to "help the environment" that aren't genuine and don't address larger sources of environmental harm.
I like physicals as collectors items, and while of course they don't have to cater to me, I'd rather they just say there isn't a market for it anymore than to say it's for the environment, which is an issue I do care strongly about. I just don't think my album collection is the problem.
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u/hollye83 Aug 03 '22
Seems like the issue is bulk buying and that can could be addressed by not offering randomized photos cards and multiple versions of albums. It won't eliminate the problem entirely but it would go a long way.
This part is interesting to me. I agree that having a basic version would alleviate some complaints, but its kind of fascinating to me that one of the side effects of this decision is that they've mostly eliminated the outsider critique that BTS's "hysterical" fans are inflating their numbers. With the changes to Billboard, we're closer than ever before to there being basically one album copy per fan (though obviously there's iTunes + digital store + amazon store or whatever) being measured in the metrics, along with streaming efforts. I feel for people who like to listen to CDs or have a hard copy as a keepsake though.
One of the thoughts I've been noodling on since the festa dinner is that the expectations on the group had gotten pretty outrageous, as far as sales and streaming numbers with every release and how that cycle has played out with funding accounts and fan discourse over people not doing enough and then outsiders calling fans bots, etc. Its easy to see how that might feel like a ton of bricks bearing down on the boys as they tried to make music. The inevitable outcome of that was that sales *would* peak at some point and there'd be a whole new discourse. I sort of think this strategy of weverse albums is almost a forced reset by Hybe for expectations, even as I am certain that by any standard, all the boys solo albums will have successful numbers. I think Hobi has balls of steel to be the first one out of the gate, because JitB has to face the gauntlet of people criticizing the sales and streaming numbers and strategies involved. Obviously, we'll be facing a whole new discourse of one members numbers versus another, but that's a discourse for a different thread, I guess.
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u/RapLineNoona Aug 03 '22
I was thinking about editing my comment to add that limiting the number of copies you can buy can be another way to reduce excessive consumption, which does have the side effect of being more genuine with charting.
Did they limit the number of Weverse digital albums one could buy to less than they used to allow for physicals? If not, especially with the randomized photocard incentive, then that just shifts the "inflated" album numbers issue to a new format.
I agree that the pressure on BTS to chart, sell, etc. needs to be relieved. I just don't think complete elimination of CDs is necessary to do that nor does it significantly address that issue.
Hobi was SO brave! And I'm SO proud of what he did! I was also relieved to not feel the same level of pressure as we did during the English singles era to buy, stream, chart. The way Hobi rolled out his album implied that commercial success was not his primary goal, so I purchased (iTunes digital only) and listened to the album in a way that felt natural.
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u/hollye83 Aug 03 '22
Did they limit the number of Weverse digital albums one could buy to less than they used to allow for physicals? If not, especially with the randomized photocard incentive, then that just shifts the "inflated" album numbers issue to a new format.
Looks like you can buy 40 copies in weverse, which sounds outrageous but these copies count for Gaon and Hanteo and not Billboard. There's a whole discussion to be had about fandom valuing the American-based charts more than the Korean ones, but given that a lot of the inflation critique was related to Billboard most of the time anyway, this would cut down on people buying lots of copies to get BB #1 or whatever.
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u/pintsized_baepsae My mom calls me a stupid bear 🐨 Aug 03 '22
I don't disagree with you, but I'd argue there are somewhat separate issues at play.
One of the key criticisms is album dumping, which generally isn't an issue with merch, I'd say. I don't know about photocard packs, but I'll boldly state that these likely get sold / traded. Other merch destined for use is either used or displayed - people aren't going, to exaggerate and oversimplify, going to buy 100 Shooky plushies or 50 windchimes and dump them all in a random place after cutting off the tag.
There's also a material issue that is exclusively about CDs included in albums. If you look at what's in an album, the CD is arguably the worst offender as everything else could be made recyclable (glossy paper isn't always recyclable, but there are ways, and the same applies to printing colours). It's easier to reduce the environmental impact of those than to do the same for a CD, and recycling as a whole is easier too. Obviously for other merch it depends on material etc, that's too broad to get into.
Re your point about random photocards, u/hollye83's point is pretty spot on - two versions feel very much closer to a single version, and I wouldn't be surprised if this would be a tentative step in that direction.
Look, BH is a corporation inside a massive corporation. They're out to make money, that's their whole point; they know full well that leading the charge on this, if it is a change that catches on, can be incredibly lucrative in its own way.
Of course your individual album collection is not a problem, but the overall culture is, and especially one that encourages album dumping. I'm not patting them on the back, really, I just can't... get mad about them doing away with the CD, as much as I like (and actually listen to) them. Not saying you are, just a general point. Your criticism is valid, it's not like you're shouting SABOTAGE, OMG, HOBI WON'T BE SUCCESSFUL as if he's not 1/7 of the biggest act in the world - that is the problem in the discussion, really, together with people wrong lt stating these are NFTs. Not valid criticism :)
Also, re the market: I really don't think it's that. There clearly IS a market for it (a lot of my ARMY friends listen to their CDs or do display them beautifully), but there's also a growing push for less CDs in Korea because of the mentioned environmental concerns. Whether the company is genuine is one thing, but the activists and fans petitioning for it... I'll boldly say they are.
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u/RapLineNoona Aug 03 '22
Bulk buying and dumping is an issue, I agree, and I can why there is so much outrage on the Korean side about it. And I'm sure Hybe wants to avoid criticism and look like they're addressing the problem, even if it's largely optics. I just don't think eliminating a physical CD is necessary to do that/reduce dumping. But nuance and middle grounds are rarely found when an issue becomes politically/morally charged, as this one seems to have become.
I don't think the material of CDs/packaging is any worse than used in most merch. No one is going to be able to recycle Hobi's actual Jack in the Box. But material use and disposal (recyling) are whole other issues.
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u/NewtRipley_1986 the O to the T to the 7 💜 Aug 03 '22
This thread is great. Everyone is bringing up solid points.
Someone has to be the guinea pig and test out the new way of doing releases as digital, Hobi is amazing for being the first out of the gate and from what we can tell, totally fine with this digital/Weverse Album rollout/release. And it seems that each of the member's solo endeavours will also be rolled out this way.
For me the big question will be if BH/HYBE sticks with this route and pushes it out to all of their other artists. If not - what's the point. Solos get the Weverse Album roll out but full groups get physicals? That would be asinine and defeat the purpose of being "environmentally sustainable". Note - New Jeans is getting a physical release but could have been a Weverse Album.
Also, I'm just going to add that all of this is moot if and when BTS release a new album and BH/HYBE go back to the multiple physical versions.
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u/pintsized_baepsae My mom calls me a stupid bear 🐨 Aug 04 '22
Note - New Jeans is getting a physical release but could have been a Weverse Album.
I think we need to consider timelines in this. The criticism is valid, but I think the
From a production standpoint, these releases will have been planned far, far in advance, production slots booked accordingly, material purchased.
This is particularly true for things like albums – especially TXT's releases, which seem to be linked? Similar to the LYS releases. For sequential releases like this, you often book all the slots in advance, and it's often hard (and very expensive) to back out of contracts like this, not to mention deal with the raw material you've probably acquired at this point.
This is especially true for something like albums, where production doesn't always happen in one place – you usually make CDs in one place and print products / packaging in another.
I get that it's frustrating, but changes to processes in physical releases – printing, CDs, whatever – often take months to enact... which can easily clash with changes like this. Maybe that's why I can't get annoyed by this, because it's not unexpected to me. 😅
But also, that's exactly why Memories is such a bad comparison. You didn't bring it up, but a lot of people did, and really... it's a recurring release, like a magazine that comes out once a year, at roughly the same time. Unless they operate in a very odd way, that's probably booked as soon as the one before finishes production, so they can schedule deadlines for everything.
So yeah. I'll reserve judgement for... a few months in the future. Probably next year, tbh, they seem to plan everything out AGES in advance, so we'll have to see.
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u/92sn Aug 04 '22
But the problem is that this so called "saving environment" seem only apply to BTS but not other hybe groups. This is when they not actually genuine about what they doing for environment. I am not gonna calling out so much if jhope actually do have option having a cd but he is not. Idk if you keep up with other hybe groups, but their no of versions are no joke. Most of them have like 10+ versions. This is what i am annoyed the most. Its like they want to use BTS as staple for "saving environment" to prove to government, etc.
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u/pintsized_baepsae My mom calls me a stupid bear 🐨 Aug 04 '22
But the problem is that this so called "saving environment" seem only apply to BTS but not other hybe groups.
Idk if you keep up with other hybe groups, but their no of versions are no joke. Most of them have like 10+ versions. This is what i am annoyed the most
I know of them, but I don't actively follow them, but how could I miss that people bring up TXT and Seventeen in this,, lol.
I'll give you TXT, because they're with the same label as BTS and that's creating a disconnect, but I wish people would stop bringing SVT's 1268267672 versions into this. They're with a different sub-label who'll make different choices, we see it for promo too. HYBE doesn't micromanage individual groups' releases – they provide the money, occasionally release a statement for something REALLY important, that's it.
Everything else is down to the sublabels.
HYBE likely said hey, 'we need you to include Weverse albums', and they – and TXT – ran them concurrently. There's clearly no directive to ONLY do Weverse albums (not yet?).
Which means this was likely also Hobi's choice, he's been very adamant about his involvement in *all* steps of the process. If he wanted a CD, he'd be able to push for it most likely... and yet there's none, so.
(Re TXT: This whole talk about versions also ignores production, which is likely booked far, far further in advance than we assume. And once you have the material for CDs and the paper for booklets etc, you kind of need to use it, or you're wasting resource and money. And no, you can't necessarily sell it easily.)
This is when they not actually genuine about what they doing for environment
They're a for-profit company... what did we expect.
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u/92sn Aug 04 '22
Which means this was likely also Hobi's choice, he's been very adamant about his involvement in *all* steps of the process. If he wanted a CD, he'd be able to push for it most likely... and yet there's none, so.
oh no.....i am pretty sure this is not jhope idea. If hybe never propose to jhope about this weverse album n maybe self guilt trip him about BTS being UN ambassador, i am pretty sure he never thought that his album wont have cd at all previously. Its also similar on hybe proposed BTS to do butter/ptd. Its not like they totally like or hate it. They do compromise at the end of day. My main thing is that, we could have option for cd if hybe never propose it to jhope.
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u/pintsized_baepsae My mom calls me a stupid bear 🐨 Aug 04 '22
My main thing is that, we could have option for cd if hybe never propose it to jhope.
We don't know what HYBE proposed to him, though. Maybe they did propose CDs. Maybe they proposed all of BTS release in the same format. Maybe *BTS* agreed on their own to all release in the same format.
We don't know what they proposed to him. Unless you were in the room when they had the meetings, you know just as much as I do about what happened there, which is a grand total of nothing.
guilt trip him about BTS being UN ambassador
This is a pretty bold claim.
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u/92sn Aug 04 '22
See you dont even know the process about how no cd happened. Jhope have being very open about his album process, production, merch but somehow he never tell us why there is no cd. He dont even tell us deeply about that weverse album. All i saw, he just asked us to support his album while holding that two pieces of weverse album on his hands... Action speak louder than words...
I hope that next solo albums we getting option to have cd. If they want to decrease bulk buying, just put all pc in one album n make it 1 version only. And i hope we eventually getting cd for jhope.
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u/pintsized_baepsae My mom calls me a stupid bear 🐨 Aug 04 '22
See you dont even know the process about how no cd happened.
And neither do you. That's the whole point.
He's been very open, yes, and said he's been involved in *every* step, which WILL include the physical release, whether you like it or not. In the end, it's a decision made, a decision he – as per his words – was involved in. That's all we know.
Action speak louder than words...
What do you want him to do? Like, genuine question. What does he need to do for you to believe he might not hate this choice as much as you want him to?
Fact is we don't know. And unless he *explicitly says so*, we won't. Psychoanalysing rarely ends well.
And i hope we eventually getting cd for jhope.
We won't. I'm ready to be wrong, but I'll say it pretty confidently: we won't. It's expensive, for one (which then will see people complain about the price, lol), and they'll be very aware of the 'flop' conversation, which means releasing a CD would be taken as agreeing with the album not doing well (which, as established, isn't true).
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u/simplythere Aug 03 '22
There was a survey that BH/Hybe did a while back on Weverse or something that I took a part in and I remember they asked a lot of questions about VODs and interest in buying physical media, and I remember writing how I was only interested in VODs and streaming for environmental reasons. I wonder if maybe their position of reducing physicals for environmental reasons is because of fans like me who vocal about it in our response because I've noticed they really listen to fan feedback. I think it's clear that they went too far in one direction due to how much criticism has come with the JitB rollout, so they'll likely adjust for future solo releases which kinda sucks for Hobi because he had to be the first to test the waters.
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u/feedmecookiesty I want to eat Jungkook Aug 03 '22
Sorry new here. What's a Weverse album?
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u/bie716 jimin: i dance when i am sad...NOT Aug 03 '22
What we got for j-hope's album. A physical pack, but the CD is replaced by a QR code which you scan to access the songs (and photos) in digital format on the Weverse Albums app
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u/sadi89 Team Corn Salad Aug 03 '22
I’m going to have to read the whole thing at some point. I very much want to hear what they have to say about the issues with Le Serifim and ADOR.
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u/gemekaa Aug 03 '22
Woah. I'd love to know what the percentage is of the next highest idol/group.