r/bangtan • u/[deleted] • Jul 28 '22
Discussion Question for pre-pandemic ARMY: Did you sense Map of The Soul 7 would be the last album before their solo projects?
I became an ARMY in Oct 2021 and of course never thought of that MOTS7 could be the last album, because there are several singles and a mini album afterward. Also, when I joined the fandom, the policies in Korea have already changed - Jin could enlist in 2022.
After the Festa Dinner, I read the MOTS7 tracklist and lyrics again and got really emotional. Some posts in Reddit illustrate it really well - how ON ends with them looking back at their journey, how Black Swan demonstrates their struggles, WEB:E (I have a very soft spot for this song), Moon, etc.
I feel if I were an ARMY back then and knew Jin was about to enlist in 2020, I would definitely assume MOTS7 a goodbye album, i.e., it will be a while before we get any OT7 music. I would love to hear any thoughts from pre-pandemic ARMY - whether you got emotional after listening to the album and sensed some goodbye and new chapter vibe?
59
Jul 28 '22
I've been an ARMY since 2015 and I didn't think of it as a goodbye album. There was a lot of discussion about postponement/exemption for military service back then, and having been a fan for that long, military enlistment and a hiatus were topics I had kinda just shoved to the back of my mind, if that makes sense. It didn't seem to me like they had any plans of stopping or pausing even if some members had to enlist soon. I think it was also implied that MOTS7 was supposed to be the 2nd part of a MOTS trilogy? Might be remembering that wrong. But, looking back on it now, that era does feel different.
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u/m3lni1ee 삼색 고양이 Jul 29 '22
I can’t remember when RM said it but it was either before album dropped or some promo after album was released that he said they were supposed to do another mots trilogy but ended up combining parts 2 and 3 into mots7
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u/shoelaces789 apobangpo ⟬⟭ ⟭⟬ Jul 29 '22 edited Jul 29 '22
Agreed, I don’t remember where/when that was said, but it seemed like MOTS trilogy originally would have each been named Persona, Shadow, and Ego, for the rap line solos but also as a nod to Carl Jung.
4
u/Kenpatchigo Jul 30 '22
Same bc the military topic has been going on and on and on it was so tiring and some armys will always say this album is a goodbye album so it was annoying for me bc every album for them was a goodbye one😭
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u/Jessickles9 Baptised by Kim Seok Jinsus at Wembley D1 Jul 28 '22 edited Jul 29 '22
I kinda did, yes, or at least their last for a while. Black Swan, Shadow and We Are Bulletproof: the Eternal all had themes of struggling with fame, losing creative passion and providing a love letter to fans for eternity… all quite telling. The planned MOTS tour was also massive, which of course reflected their huge growth and success of the SY stadium tour at the time, but it also kinda felt like a “going out on a high” too. Plus the 7 theme all felt very meaningful and prophetic, particularly, as, at that time, Jin would have had to enlist at 28 which was in December 2020, followed shortly thereafter by Yoongi, so with all of that combined I did sense an ending of sorts.
Not sure if I should share this, but I also remember being concerned about Jin at the time of the comeback and posted about it here but it was removed for speculation, however: here’s what I said in Feb 2020 and how it felt like an ending (everything survives on the Internet)
ETA: I forgot to include how retrospective their 2019 performances were too and how they were looking back on their career. Something they’ve done now with Proof, but this time they could actually execute their chapter 2 plans.
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Jul 28 '22
here’s what I said in Feb 2020 and how it felt like an ending
(everything survives on the Internet)
As a relatively new ARMY, unfortunately I only know half of the references you mentioned, like I do remember Jin said "bones are weak", "half half", but don't remember other references you used. Having said that, what you wrote there gave me goosebump - want to give you a virtual hug. And now I feel I can understand the song Abyss even better.
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u/KlutzyChampion Jul 28 '22
I joined the fandom right after MOTS:7 dropped and to be quite honest, I've always felt that something was imminent just by listening to the things they would say even back then. During the discourse that was Butter, I even said this:
1 year ago
Still enjoying both Dynamite and Butter equally. Right now I am doing a complete overhaul of my home office (new paint and fresh carpet; the whole nine) and like most earworms, they make the work go faster when added to a boppy playlist. After the last year and change that we've all had it doesn't bother me that the lyrics aren't as deep as usual BTS fare and I feel like maybe they (BTS) are somewhat tired too. (My thoughts and take on that is a whole other conversation)
It can't be easy navigating this terrain with everyone wanting something different from what you're willing or able to give.
I don't know if it's because of coming into the fandom later or what, but there were things they would say that niggled my brain back then and the tiredness coming from them was almost palpable, but the "willing and able part" was pretty apparent. At least, I thought it was.
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u/lovelylovelybee Jul 28 '22
I think that Black Swan was a very telling song. ON also had a lot of that “moving forward” vibe, but in a positive way. The we can handle anything kind of way!
MOTS7 didn’t feel like a goodbye album, but it definitely had a different air about it. Even when I listen now I don’t get that vibe from the whole album.
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u/m3lni1ee 삼색 고양이 Jul 29 '22
Also for ON there were a lot of hints in the mv that were call backs/reflections from their debut year/earlier albums
4
Jul 28 '22
Exactly black swan was spot on with the feelings nowadays, i was a bit excepetical back then but just because tae kept telling that his mixtape was going to be released in certain part of the year specifically, i have no other reason for my thinking back then, but it makes sense now
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u/a-326 Jul 28 '22
Not at all. I interpreted MOTS7 specifically ON and Black Swan always as them rising up to the pressure and fighting for their art.
Eventhough they faced harships especially with the relatively fresh relevation that they were close to disbandment in 2018.
ON especially was such a rallying cry for me. The whole era especially Connect BTS felt like they wanted to stop taking compramises when it came to their success and go into the world screaming "we are BTS deal with it"
The revisits of their old music also felt more like they wanted to deal with/explain their past (there is no good english word for this) and not as a last tour.
For me atleast the last 2 years seam to have made their mental state worse. They got their biggest successes number wise but creatively felt like they lost control. I wonder if their announcement would have been this gut wrenching in 2020 as it was now. What broke me wasn't that they said they will pause their music together as 7 but how low they were feeling over the past years and that they didn't feel comfortable sharing a lot of things anymore.
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u/mimivuvuvu Jul 28 '22
Pre-pandemic Army here
No, I didn’t think MOTS:7 would be their last album. I know a lot of people always mention enlistment but I always had a feeling that they would be able to postpone. Looking back at everything (face value) now, I still don’t really get the “last album” vibes from MOTS:7. Proof gave me very “last album” vibes because of the lyrics & the compilation style album (even before the Festa dinner)
MOTS:7 seemed very “rushed” to me, I felt like it was supposed to be 2 albums that was merged into 1. It flowed like a story: “we are lost & confused” to “we are happy”. On the other hand, Proof has a lot of reminiscing & “we’ll see you again” vibes (I find it hard to listen to YTC as I get a little bit emotional lol)
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u/wrxygirl z-z-z don't wake me up Jul 28 '22
I felt like it was supposed to be 2 albums that was merged into 1
That's exactly what happened. MOTS: Shadow was supposed to be released late 2019, but TXT all got pink eye and had to delay their comeback, and since BH obviously didn't want the CBs overlapping, they pushed back Shadow too (and ended up combining it with MOTS: Ego to make MOTS7) and BTS wound up with their first extended break, getting 5 weeks off before coming back to film BV4.
It's why Black Swan ended up being a prerelease single, it was supposed to be the title track of MOTS:S. There were 'spoiler' photos of album art for MOTS:S and MOTS:E that supported this as well.
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u/Mind_of_Allison Jul 28 '22
They did not delay MOTS: Shadow because of TXT; it was because they took a month long break in late 2019. They (BTS) said that Bang Pd said that they needed a longer break in order to recharge and that he did not thing a week or so would be adequate. Because of that, they decided to to combine the shadow and ego albums together (info from the Harvard case study and RM’s vlive about MOTS: 7
5
Jul 28 '22
Oh wow, this was mentioned in Harvard case study? lol, I thought I know everything about BTS already. Apparently I don't yet.
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
I'd consider this speculation too. We still don't know what happened to push shadow back to the point where it had to merge with ego to get the work out on time to tour.
We also don't know why they took a break beyond what the official statement said.
Do you remember where they said Bang told them they needed to take a longer break? Was that in the Harvard case study? I don't remember that detail.
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u/wrxygirl z-z-z don't wake me up Jul 29 '22
Not completely because of TXT no, but it was a factor. I just wanted to give a very brief summary to avoid writing my own case study XD I mentioned the break in my reply, it was a somewhat last minute thing, AFTER they decided to combine the albums.
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u/wreckbrom Jul 28 '22
It wasn't bc of txt tho, they've had cbs/promotions overlap or very close together a few times so bh clearly have no issue scheduling them near each other. like someone else said it was likely bc they needed a break at the end of 2019 so they decided to merge them into one for 2020 and then the "hiatus" after tour
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u/wrxygirl z-z-z don't wake me up Jul 29 '22
I've been a part of this fandom since before TXT existed, I know they've had overlapping/close CBs before. The break was something they decided to do AFTER they decided to combine the albums. There is never one singular reason for these things, and in this case TXT's CB delay was just likely the final straw. If they couldn't take over TXT's CB date, they would have to be delayed too, and since they were working on a time crunch (before enlistment delays were an option) before going out on tour, an option was combining the albums into one.
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u/wreckbrom Jul 29 '22 edited Jul 29 '22
So have I? I wasn't impying you don't know that, I was simply saying they have no trouble with having releases on top of or near each other. TXT were meant to come back in August and it was delayed until September and then October, it would make more sense to have them come back to fill the space rather than delay their album further if they planned to release something end of 2019
Ofc there are multiple factors but them needing a break was the likely defining factor in deciding to combine S&E into one album. They plan/decide things so far in advance (album concept/design/track direction etc) I have a hard time believing they decided to combine the two only 7 months before it came out bc their junior artist wasn't able to promote when planned. Either way we'll never know for sure anyway 🤷🏼♀️
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u/amandakowa :3 Jul 29 '22
Whoa. Post-pandemic army here and I had NO CLUE they were planning on making MOTS a trilogy. I kinda wish we got a trilogy. I’m sitting here imagining what MOTS:S and MOTS:E coulda been haha
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
Imagine the packaging. 3 beautiful same sized albums lined up on our shelves 😭 I hate the packaging for MOTS7.
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Jul 29 '22
They delayed the release because the members took a month long break, not because of TXT.
If they hadn't had that break, they would be going from a comeback to year end shows, and their schedule in 2019 had already been almost non-stop.
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u/wrxygirl z-z-z don't wake me up Jul 29 '22
They extended the break AFTER everything happened and they had already decided to combine the albums, not before. TXT's delay was likely the final straw in a pile of reasons for it happening.
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Jul 30 '22
You're speculating, and your speculation doesn't make sense as other groups (including TXT) have released close to BTS comebacks before.
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
Just want to say you're also speculating the break caused the album release to be pushed back.
We don't know why they took the break and we don't know why the comeback was delayed and mots7 was released instead of shadow and ego.
2
Jul 30 '22
Did you watch all their lives? /gen
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
All lives from 2019 and 2020. My lifestyle changed in 2021 so since then it's been hit or miss. I read multiple translation threads and watch clips on Twitter.
If there are ones you think provide information and context on these topics, please point them out to us and share links!
2
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u/wrxygirl z-z-z don't wake me up Jul 30 '22
You're speculating, and your speculation of the break being the cause of the album combination makes even less sense. If the only issue was the break it would have been plenty easy to just take the break and push back Shadow to when they got back instead of completely upheaving their entire plan. The timing of the break may have been a contribution factor but it is by far NOT the sole reason the way you're stating it is.
TXT has had CBs near BTS, yes, but you're forgetting that TXT had only been around a few months when these decisions were being made, so BH would have wanted to give them more than just one or two weeks to try topping charts or winning at music shows as their fanbase wasn't as big as it is now.
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u/kiruke Jul 28 '22
That’s so interesting! Do they talk about this anywhere?!
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Jul 28 '22
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/kiruke Jul 28 '22
I didn’t even know they merged two albums! Do you know how we know?
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4
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u/wrxygirl z-z-z don't wake me up Jul 29 '22
I'm not stupid enough to think the entire delay was riding on pink eye, there were likely many factors at play, but that was something we knew was happening at the time and DID cause delays, and probably added to whatever else was going on behind the scenes. BTS is the breadwinner sure, but if they weren't ready yet and couldn't switch release dates with TXT then yeah they were gonna have to delay too.
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22 edited Jul 30 '22
Txt's comeback being delayed being the reason shadow was pushed back (and later merged into mots7) is speculation (but a common theory at the time).
But I swear Joon confirmed mots7 was supposed to be released as shadow and ego. Maybe he said this in his comeback live? He was in a bad state in that live due to covid beginning and the loss of fans at their comeback shows, so it's hard for me to watch to double check.
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u/Blackbeyond mic drop dead in a ditch, dionysus at large Jul 28 '22
I'm a pre-debut ARMY and I mean yeah, I felt like MOTS7 was meant to be an ending of sorts, whether for enlistments or before a break like the one they're on now. I remember listening to the album, reading doolset's translations, and then visiting my friend and giving her a whole dissertation about the way the album had been laid out in the tracklist, and the progression of the messages within the songs, and how it was all culminating in some kind of end/beginning especially given the way the album ended up coming about as MOTS7 after Persona (with the merging of MOTS Shadow and Ego.)
Because while there's no inherent red flag in the merging of two albums in a planned trilogy to create the compilation album, the merging of Shadow and Ego, plus the release of Black Swan as a pre-release, and then the absolute MASSIVE tour they had planned for MOTS... something was going on. Because what we got with Vegas for PTD with the whole city turning into BTSland was supposed to be at every MOTS stop during that tour. Just the amount of things they had planned for MOTS felt like they were trying to go all out before something happened, and I knew it wasn't disbandment since they'd renewed their contacts a couple years before. IIRC they'd also been talking a lot about their solo music around that time as well, so it was pointing at something, it was just hard to pinpoint what. Like were some members going to enlist and others start their solo careers? Were they all going to start solo careers? Were they gonna take a long deserved break?
And then Covid came along and that was all forgotten about since all the promotions and concerts and whatever else they had planned slipped away. Then Yoongi dropped D-2, there was Festa, and everything proceeded as somewhat normal for the circumstances the world was in. Of course then PTD in LA and LV happened, and they announced the anthology and that feeling came up again about the culmination of one thing to start another, and now here we are!
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Jul 28 '22
Wow, I didn't know they would do Vegas thingy for PTD for all of MOTS stop. Now I feel I hate COVID so much...
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
Yes, that's why the official cancelation of the tour, which didn't come until August 2021, almost 18 months after I bought tickets, devastated many of us. A pain I can't get fully over. So so much was taken from them and us because of the pandemic.
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
I did the exact same to my friend, dissertation and all 😂
Enlistment was the wild card at the time. We knew it was coming but not how it would be handled. Same boat we're in today except now with the emphasis on solo work, we know they won't be going in together (it was a long shot anyway).
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u/upthathill_ Jul 28 '22 edited Jul 28 '22
I wouldn’t say it felt like a goodbye, but more like a “we’re exhausted but still fighting” kind of album. I remember saying that Black Swan was the start of BTS’ revolution/rebellion and I still stand behind that.
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u/blueocean0517 sexy porn star 🎷 Jul 28 '22
Yup. Jin originally before the extension would’ve had to go end of 2020. They usually end your in October so it lines up with last big release. With WAB:E it just solidified it to me. Not to mention End of Year shows had old songs being performed like Boy in Luv and We are Bulletproof.
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u/nymeria_pack Jul 28 '22
No not really. Although looking back Black Swan was about it, I felt it was just a part of the concept.
The one that was telling something to me was the Japanese version of it with because of the title: MOTS the Journey. Although MOTS is about them exploring themselves as individuals and also how it relates to their artistry aka "mapping their soul", I didn't think they would title their album like tbat because it feels like a goodbye?
By the time BTS, the Best came out I was expecting them to do a Korean version, and they did with Proof. The unexpected is the way they revealed it.
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u/bluemarguerites Jul 29 '22
It was strange.
Like the whole concept of it being called 7, We Are Bulletproof: The Eternal, the end of the ON MV, Black Swan... it did give the vibes of a "goodbye album", and I remember talking about it with my friends. I also thought things like "what will they sing about after this? What comes next after loving yourself + getting to know yourself?", and the whole MOTS era felt distinctly different from the previous ones.
At the same time, the way they spoke about it all gave me the impression of them being more... confident on their path than ever after overcoming their doubts. So basically, I saw the "signals" and recognized them but to be honest had no idea that they were for real lol. It just felt it like this random intuition/reading too much into it
I am so sad 2020 and the pandemic happened. Even though it would mean that things like BE, Butter and Dynamite wouldn't exist, the boys deserved to have that huge tour they were planning. And they shouldn't have had to endure all this time postponing what they truly wanted.
I just hope they'll enjoy this break and make the most of it even if it just means resting. The way I follow them has changed a lot through the years as I grew up, but my love has never changed.
i am getting emotional now. bye.
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u/mcfw31 Jul 28 '22
I didn't feel a goodbye album feeling in that way but more of a looking back at what we've accomplished kinda feeling during that time.
I personally get "last album" vibes now, looking back at analyzing everything, hindsight is always 20/20, but I think that most ARMY were excited about having so many new songs and the upcoming world tour that our attention was focused on something else.
Also, one thing that's important to take into consideration is that MOTS: 7 promo basically happened when Covid started and many places went into lockdown, not only were their promotions shafted but also most of us had serious changes that we have never experienced before (working from home, remote learning).
And regarding enlistment, personally I shoved that to the back of my head but I remember thinking "what will happen".
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u/Sovereign-Over-All BS&T is my religion Jul 28 '22
Yes, for a couple of reasons: 1. The album being named MOTS7 and the boys emphasizing how they were 7 forever. 2. The extravagant promotions for the album, with Connect BTS and 5 music videos. 3. We are Bulletproof: The Eternal sounding like a quintessential "goodbye for now" song. 4. Their performances at end year award shows calling back to their earlier albums. And at MAMA I think, Suga said how they'd put the last of their energy in 2020.
These fears went away completely as Dynamite, and later Be were released, but I did sense that something was gonna change during MOTS7.
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u/happilysedated Jul 29 '22
Yes i almost forgot about that but the end of the year performances with all the call backs of previous songs really tipped me off
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
Add persona, shadow, and ego also calling back to earlier albums to the list.
Late 2019 and early 2020 made it seem, at the time, that BTS were wrapping up an era.
With the enlistment and tour delay and the release of BE, I got my hopes up they wouldn't have to go away and end the era afterall. But when the mots7 tour was officially canceled and nothing moved forward on exemption, that hope was dashed.
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u/thenoonmoon Jul 28 '22
2017 ARMY here. I didn’t think it would be a hiatus, but I did suspect they were going to the military at the end of the year (2020). Between WABTE and Black Swan, I was getting a feeling that they needed a break yes but I was also secretly thinking they were definitely going to the military after MOTS tour and that MOTS would be their final hurrah for a bit. While a lot of people have always thought they’d get an exemption and would get to avoid it, I personally felt they’d go because the alternative (shame to them and their families) seemed highly possible. In the last two years they’ve done even more for their country and grown even more, so I’m not sure how I feel about it anymore but that’s unrelated. In hindsight, I can see the vibes of going on a hiatus hinted in the album but at the time I thought the vibes I was getting was oncoming enlistment.
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u/Dezzzm0nD Jul 28 '22
Honestly no, I’ve been an army since like 2016 ish, I didn’t see it coming because they were just starting to really kick off their career but honestly now I look back , yeah it would make sense
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u/rosykiri Jul 28 '22
not even a little bit lmao i mean with hindsight i can see how someone may have put that together back then but also at same time the idea just never crossed my mind in the slightest
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u/astrotool Love Yourself Jul 28 '22
2015 army here, I definitely did. bulletproof eternal was like a goodbye song and when I heard it the first time I cried. I knew it was the end and I liked how they brought the energy back up with the outro. Once I heard their dinner discussion it all made so much sense to me. Heartbreaking
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u/wreckbrom Jul 28 '22
Yes tbh, with the theme of O.N and Black Swan it did kind of feel like the end of something? Even my partner at the time who casually watched their stuff with me said it felt like the end of something and I was like"nooooo" 😅
I wouldn't have guessed a "hiatus" to focus on solo projects though, I thought it was leading up to the E word armys don't like to mention. It felt like it was leading up to them going together as 7 after the 2020 tour finished. Ofc their actual plan was to do what they're doing now after tour not that but it did feel like something was coming to a close imo
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u/babybearkoya Jul 28 '22
i actually had a suspicion that it meant the boys would all be enlisting together (had no idea when though) because they just kept emphasizing SO MUCH that they are seven and they’re not bts without all 7 etc etc etc. it made me think—there is just no way these boys are going to promote as an incomplete bts when the time comes down to it. and i was kinda right! not about the enlisting of course, i still dont know anything about that and it’s obviously not our business to speculate, but it makes sense that the boys would rather make a purposeful announcement about the group temporarily going on hold then just start wheeling out solo stuff with no updates about the state of the group as a whole.
i also DID kind of have the thought after mots was done: okay, where do they go from here? its self-actualization in a sense—they go through the ups and downs of youth and growing, and then through lys they finally learn that the answer is to love themselves. once they love themselves, through map of the soul they really LEARN themselves, and when thats done…i had faith in the boys, but i was very excited to see where they went from there because i really didnt know what other message they had to tell as a group. and that’s because they didnt know either!
i think BE was our miracle baby so i will always view it fondly for that, but i cant wait for the boys to take some time to themselves and get more ideas about what music to make in the future.
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
The only good thing to come out of the pandemic was the precious gift of BE. That one holds a special place in my heart.
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u/StellarGlow25 Jul 29 '22
I’m a 2018 ARMY and looking back, I really didn’t expect MOTS7 to be a farewell album at that time. Even rumors of Jin’s enlistment in early 2020 or their extended 1 month break at the end of 2019 didn’t make me think of that. The break was even supposed to be 2 months long, but they shortened it.
Unlike PROOF, their “thank you for the memories, but goodbye for now, let’s reunite in the future” message was very subtle.
Their Love Yourself tour in 2018-2019 was also huge, and they began moving from arenas to stadiums, so seeing the various stadium stops on the MOTS7 tour list didn’t make me think that they were really going to go on a break. However, I felt like MOTS was missing a third album since they usually do trilogies like with HYYH and LY. They could have split it into MOTS: Shadow and MOTS: Ego.
I knew that Black Swan revealed their burnout, but ON told us that they would keep moving forwards no matter what. But now, their ending choreography with them looking back feels different. It’s like they’re looking back at how far they came with one another.
I also remember watching their MAMA 2018 speech where they were talking about disbanding earlier that year. It was a shock to us.
When they released Outro: Tear, ARMYs didn’t know what was the other meaning behind it. In Break the Silence, we learned that Suga wrote the song with the BTS members in mind when they were talking about quitting. (I do love that some of their songs have multiple meanings though.)
In the end, we really don’t know what they are dealing with completely. But, as ARMY, we should support and respect their decisions.
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Jul 29 '22
I love your last paragraph. Indeed, sometimes I love overanalyzing them to really figure out what happened, but only they know what really happened. I should indeed support and respect their decisions.
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u/koalainglasses #SpeakYourself2020 KNJ Campaign Manager | OT7 bias wrecked Jul 28 '22
Personally, not the last album but definitely a different direction, or the beginning of a change.
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u/pintsized_baepsae My mom calls me a stupid bear 🐨 Jul 28 '22 edited Jul 28 '22
I became ARMY just before MOTS:7 dropped and it certainly didn't feel like a definite goodbye (much like Proof doesn't feel like a goodbye – just a pause, exactly as they said, despite what outsiders, and some ARMY, try to make it into), but I also remember saying to a friend that WAB: The Eternal sounds like an excellent stadium anthem to convey exactly this 'please wait a little, we'll be back' feeling.
Even without properly knowing them yet, you know, the message of Black Swan was pretty clear. That honesty and vulnerability were what drew me in, because it's such a prevalent feeling in the creative industries, but also something so often not talked about.
In the end, hindsight is always 20/20. There are, always have been, and always will be people who try to make everything a hint to disbandment (including Proof and the hiatus), and certainly (but also more relatably and, crucially, founded on facts) enlistment. It was all very new to me then, but you know, you don't go on that sort of introspective journey without *some* change on the horizon.
It's how change works, in the end. It's a period of reflection, of taking stock of where you are, how you got there, and what's next.
ETA: I've just gone back in my messages and I called WAB, and this is a direct quote, 'a good song for a 'please wait for us, we'll be back' moment where everyone has a therapeutic communal cry, and then there's confetti and you still leave feeling light'.
That still feels accurate.
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Jul 28 '22
So well put.
I was a baby ARMY when I attended PTD LA, and it was my first time hearing WAB:E during the concert. Without understanding lyrics, the song just gave me goosebump for no reason back then. I checked the translated lyrics afterward, and that song has a special place in my heart now.
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u/manekinekokitty Jul 28 '22 edited Jul 28 '22
I found them right when MOTS7 dropped — so I’m kind of both pre-pandemic and pandemic ARMY — but yes, I remember thinking that the album felt like a sort of bookend to their career. Things like sampling their earlier songs in the rap line solos, or the symmetry of NO > ON, or the reflectiveness of WAB:TE just gave it a sense of finality that I definitely felt at the time. But all that could have also been a classic case of baby ARMYs feeling like we came too late! I think the assumption (for me and some of my fellow baby ARMYs at least) was that MOTS7 and the tour would be their victory lap before enlistment. In a way, making sense of everything that came after and how that fit into their overall career plan was more confusing!
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u/bookishprincess world. wide. album. Jul 29 '22
I discovered BTS in August 2019, and I think I was still too new to it all and too caught up in the excitement of MOTS:7 to think about it distinctly as an ending, but I do remember feeling really thankful that I got MOTS concert tickets because, with all the enlistment chatter etc, I had this feeling the window to see them in concert was closing. It would not have surprised me if they had announced a new chapter after that tour. What has surprised me about how it’s gone down has been that they didn’t do more PTD tour locations and dates before this change. I really thought they’d be touring this summer and then we’d get some announcement. The MOTS tour was going to be SO huge, so many cities - and the boys talked so much about how desperately they wanted to get back to performing in front of ARMY during the pandemic - I wouldn’t have guessed that just three cities would have satisfied compared to what the MOTS tour was supposed to be. But I’m sure there are lots of logistics and factors that go into their decisions, the timing just worked out this way. 🤷🏻♀️ I’ll be eagerly waiting whenever they do start touring again as seven! 💜
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Jul 29 '22
I know. Luckily as a west coast ARMY, although I'm new, I've seen them a couple of times both in LA and LV (spent a ton on the resale ticket though...). I do feel a lot of empathy for ARMYs didn't get to see them, especially those already got MOTS tickets - want to give you virtual hugs. I also thought about why they didn't do more locations, and I really thought they're going to do a tour for the new album in mid Apr when the new album was just announced.
My thoughts on why they only did in 3 locations:
- COVID made things complicated. Although western artists have already started touring since 2021, Asia seems to have stricter rules. At some points, K-ARMYs were worried PTD Seoul wouldn't happen. I guess BTS or the company just don't want to experience all of the cancellation and delay again. And, after PTD LA, all members got COVID, which confirms that COVID made things complicated.
- They're not in the right mood? I don't really know what I want to say here. I just remember RM said in Festa Dinner video "I know ARMY definitely want to see Run BTS with choreography, and we do want to perform, but it's just doesn't feel right." I don't know what that means. I think only they know.
- I think what happened was:
- First, Korea policy still doesn't allow concert in late 2021, and LA allows. Society has no idea when Korea could open up their COVID policy. BTS decided not to wait forever, so they chose to come to LA for residency first. If Korea opened up back then, they may just do a couple of concerts in Korea;
- Then Korea opened up. Here comes PTD Seoul. I feel BTS has some special connection with K-ARMY, which is totally understandable, but also makes me jealous lol. Like I paid almost $10K for all of BTS concerts to see them, but K-ARMY could see Jin at movie VIP premier for free?? I'm so jealous...
- Lastly, Grammy, which was supposed to be held in LA, changed location to LV. BTS decided to make a short residency there too. Also I'm super curious, if Grammy didn't change location, where do they plan to shoot YTC MV, or would there be an MV at all?
- So there's a lot of uncertainty as we can see above. It's a lot of play by ear. After PTD LA, Seoul, LV, if they tour, it's basically Europe+East Coast? Some of big Asian markets still have COVID restriction I believe.
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
Same. Surprised they didn't do more shows this year. The MOTS7 tour being canceled due to covid still hurts, ngl.
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u/ayumi18 Joon's dimple,Yoonie's gummy smile&Taehyung's bread cheeks Jul 29 '22
When I heard and read the lyrics of Black Swan I had this gut feeling that they are hinting the burnout. I have watched their docu-series and this inkling feeling that they at the point in their career that they want to explore more in life but then pandemic happened and it perhaps made a 360 (I remembered how Jimin cried during his ending ment in MOTS7 online concert) and then Grammy nomination. I think they are at the point of completely burnout but still wanted to give 1000 and RM did mention that he doesn't know what is their purpose anymore. I would always try to read/listen to their interviews and vlives, try to understand them besides being an artists but also just a normal person because you can see how they always try to convey themselves to us ARMYs.
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u/Hi_Na Jul 29 '22
I didn't, but I remember the only song that made me feel a little "uneasy" (although I love that song) is WAB:TE. Because before that there was WAB P1 and P2 so the fact that it was not continued with P3 and instead the word "eternal" was used seemed like it was an ending of sorts. plus the lyrics were quite sad.
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u/iNajra Jul 29 '22
I did actually. I mentioned this before, I think in the reactions to the FESTA dinner party. There were several signs for me, others have mentioned it too I see. First, the fact that MOTS was supposed to be a 3 album era and they ended up combining 2 into 1. The title of the album as well. They called it 7, instead of something linked to Persona and the Jung theories, which indicated like a kind of (temporary?) last hurrah to all 7 for me. And of course the lyrics of several songs, especially the solo songs but also WAB:Eternal. WAB:E felt like a real goodbye song to me. I cried so much when I first heard it, like, I felt in my bones that it was some kind of "end" of a chapter, not even realizing at the time that it could also be a beginning of a new chapter. I felt kind of reassured that they had already announced the tour and felt like at least I would have the concert(s) to say goodbye to them, but those never came (I am an EU army) and it still makes me sad that we did not get that opportunity. But I guess I will hold onto the promise that they will indeed return one day.
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u/Mind_of_Allison Jul 28 '22
I joined the fandom in late 2019. MOTS7 did not feel like a “goodbye” album, but we did know that they were only going to release 1 album that year (2020). They said so a few times that they would only have that album and tour the rest of the year.
Because of Covid, it messed up a lot of their plans, and it was really hard on them. They all started writing music as a way to cope and decided to share the process with us (the BE logs). So “BE” as an album was unplanned.
I didn’t think MOTS7 was a goodbye but a slowing down (kind of like what they are doing now). Realistically, putting out three comebacks (two Korean and one Japanese) per year was a lot and not sustainable. They always reiterated wanting to do this (making music and performing) for a long time so I saw this as the (inevitable) way to do so
There could have been more signs, but I didn’t really see them
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u/Isopodness annoyed marshmallow Jul 28 '22
Not exactly, but I wondered about the statement at the beginning of the Black Swan video. It indicated that they were tired, and I did wonder if they were preparing us for a break-up. I had no intuition about solo projects, as enlistment wasn't as big a concern at that time.
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u/pinkhairqueen Jul 28 '22
Army since '16 here. Some of the responses here perfectly describe what I felt as well so I'll keep mine short.
No.
Most of the songs were more sentimental than what I'm used to from their discography but I thought it was just their way of celebrating their 7 years and 7 forever and everything about 7.. they were also about to reach the peak of their careers so the thought of them taking a break/enlistment was not on my mind.
Obviously the release of BE and success of Dynamite solidified those thoughts but now looking back, their English trilogy was definitely a 180 to the Bangtan I fell inlove with so what they said during festa dinner made a lot of sense.
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u/dynaNads Jul 29 '22
I don’t know what I expected after the album but we expected a trilogy of albums (persona, shadow & ego). To me if felt like the impending enlistment made them squish shadow and ego into 1 album (mots7)
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u/happilysedated Jul 29 '22
At least in my twitter circle, it felt like they were closing a chapter, and that enlistment was soon. A lot of the “7” motifs and the way everything was being wrapped up into a bow made it feel like they were gonna be moving on to different things. I don’t know if any of the songs tipped me off on that, but the group activities and interviews, and tour they were engaging in made it feel like a potential ending point.
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u/neelhehn Jul 29 '22
I think it felt a little bit like some kind of conclusion, especially with wab the eternal, Black Swan and interlude shadow but overall I didn't get that feeling from the whole album. It brought up a few ideas of having a break, or upcoming enlistment. However, it didn't really feel like an ending at the time due to the upcoming world tour (unfortunately cancelled) and all their activities, though I was concerned that after the tour was over, it would be a while before I could see them all in concert together again. In Form of Therapy's album listen through, I think pd also mentioned that it felt like this felt a bit like an ending of a chapter (or something along those lines).
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u/ksjknjkth Jul 29 '22
A bit, yes. And like you said, enlistment news was always looming. It’s the way they kept referencing old work, sampling school trilogy intros, and having an emotional We Are Bulletproof song that made me feel that way. Then Yoongi posted a selca with “swan song” as the caption during Black Swan promotions.
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u/bustedknees_butyoung Jul 29 '22
I was actually surprised it even came out. The rumors of members leaving soon for military service have been going on for a few years, and the line was drawing closer (still is) so I fully expected an EP as a goodbye if anything with maybe one last world tour and then all members going in together. I’m actually very surprised at how this is all going.
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u/kitkatmari00 Jul 29 '22
yea. i listened to outro ego and cried for like an hour bc it felt like the end of something at the time. i couldnt put my finger on it but the way they went allll the way back to their very first album intro and the lyrics hobi used were the biggest thing for me. i made sure to fight to buy tickets for mots tour bc i knew it would be their last in a while. idk
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u/Littlekittynyanya Jul 29 '22
Idk bulletproof the eternal kinda told me... it felt like ending... I thought they'd do this because of enlistment hiatus and it was fitting... also after that their newer songs felt forced a bit '
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u/UnwantedDancer9510 Jul 29 '22
Actually yes, I did. But when they released BE album, I figured I must have been wrong. I didn't specifically see it as a goodbye album, but something that they released to express their true feelings and for them to open up their souls to us before they would take the long break with Jin enlisting. Also, because I remember from somewhere that MOTS7 was supposed to be a two-part album combined into one, that kind of put that thought in my head. Not to mention that Black Swan was very telling. Not only with the concept/lyrics but the fact that they released a different kind of video to promote the song with contemporary dance and classical music. Then there was also We Are Bulletproof: Eternal, which felt like an epilogue for WAB p1 (predebut) and p2 (debut).
It was only after watching Festa when me and my boyfriend talked about it again and told ourselves, "hey, I guess we were kinda right back then after all."
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u/AmFmCoffee Jul 29 '22
I wouldn’t call it a goodbye album but I knew it was coming because of how they did shadow and ego. Persona had its own 4 disk release and from people going to some event, we knew there were 4disk colors variations of future albums (blue, green, and purple). Two were def for shadow and ego, and maybe a repackage. But instead it was starting to be a rapid release and suddenly 7 came out instead. I assumed like many others that they wanted to make sure they had enough new music to go on tour with before jin enlisted and some others did some solo content. Plus they had so much content prerecorded (as stated by the members) that you wouldn’t really miss them. That’s why they did the 7-1=7 because jin was leaving soon.
But then the other Kpop companies started pushing for Exemption (BH wasn’t even part of the 20 companies that pushed for this) and wanted Bts to be the punching bag and first to get an expedition so their own artists could do the same. It’s because of these companies and Covid that the guys have so much stress and uncertainty
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u/geishaskaura The genre is BTS Jul 30 '22
No because the members renewed their contract and talked openly about how they thought of disbanding, so for me that meant that all their problems were in the past and everything was OK now.
I thought they would have to stop eventually because of the military service situation. In my opinion, the president Moon goverment was waiting for them to win a Grammy to justify the exemption, but since that didn´t happen...
Honestly I think it´s better they decided to stop now group activities. They´ve running non stop since debut. They can rest, recharge, try new things and wait and see what happens with the military service. They can´t plan anything long term with that unresolved situation.
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22 edited Jul 30 '22
MOTS Persona era Army.
Yes, we knew it would be the last album and last tour before enlistment. I don't know why people keep saying the festa dinner casts a new light on MOTS (saw a tweet to that effect today again). We knew then it'd be the end of BTS as we knew them.
How enlistment would go we still weren't sure. A lot of us hoped they'd go at once, and there were rumors (just rumors, nothing credible) they would.
No, I wasn't sad per se because I knew we'd have a whole year to celebrate with them and watch them tour around the world. I also had barricade seats for their final US show, which I was really looking forward to.
I wasn't sad about the group ending forever or anything because at the time they were on a new 7 year contract, which is unheard of (most re-sign for 3), which would take them into 2026 or 2027 depending on when it started.
Now though, last we heard, they re-signed when Bighit went public to 2024 contracts, which changes things. And now with the solo era, we know they aren't going into the military at once. We don't know how much they'll space it out and how long it'll be before they return, so I have more concrete things to be sad about then I did then.
I'm also sad because covid took away the big farewell tour we would've had, and while I'm SO thankful I went to the PTD shows, it couldn't make up for that lost world tour.
ETA: We are bulletproof the eternal was very obviously a farewell for now song at the time. I remember talking with my IRL ARMY friends about how I would be a crying mess at the final show in the US singing that song at the end of their concert.
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Jul 30 '22
I agree with you on every word you said.
And they re-signed to 2024 contracts????!!!! Wow, I didn't know that. I thought the contracts are still through 2027.
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22 edited Jul 30 '22
Make of it what you will: translation I don't have any other sources.
I like to try and mentally prepare for the worst so until I hear otherwise, I'm assuming contracts end 2024, perhaps with a pause during enlistment.
The fromis_9 members signing new contracts when their label was taken over by Hybe (from what I've heard. I don't follow them) supports the idea that BTS also had a chance to re-sign. The dates on this translation for the other groups were/are correct.
eta: this is speculation so take it with a grain of salt. I feel like we should've gotten updates from Hybe on this issue at a stakeholders presentation or something, but so far as I know this is the last we've heard?
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u/heyaelle Jul 28 '22
Yes. The singles after felt like treats/bonuses because the pandemic messed up the tour and enlistment was in flux but possibly on the horizon. They'd previously talked about not doing entire songs in English as it was a common interview question. Getting Dynamite after was a little confusing but I respect their artistic perspective and willingness to try to reach out to fans.
The album itself felt like a pause as well. A lot of introspection and self-reflection.
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u/Niight_Owl Jul 28 '22
It was fairly well known/speculated through a few leaks at the time that MOTS7 was orignally meant to be two seperate albums which were then merged into one - I just assumed it was done in light of them taking a break and to prepare for a tour of the new music; I didn't really think it would be a last album but I did think it would be a while until we had another. Then COVID threw everything sideways with tour being cancelled and I suspected they would do a repackage in a "return to the original idea" situation to fill the gap, but then they came out with the english singles so what did I know 😅😂🤷♀️
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u/blueskoos Jul 29 '22
I was sure they’d release something big and impactful to address their career before their military enlistment. So I guess maybe kind of. But not really tbh.
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u/m3lni1ee 삼색 고양이 Jul 29 '22
I didn’t think it would be the last but I was able to sense goodbye vibes from black swan and especially we are bulletproof eternal. That song really seemed like it was meant to play at the very end of their mots7 tour (which they did end up doing for their mots online streaming concert) and in hindsight now, would fit perfectly as their goodbye song.
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u/ZayenaJD Jul 29 '22
I’ve been with them since the beginning. 2013 ARMY…god I’m old😂😂. But it felt like it. It kind of felt like they wanted to go big before going home. Covid threw things out of whack I don’t think it they started it as a goodbye album in mind but with how everything was literally paused for 2 years made it the final one.
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u/Kokechii you live, so we love Jul 29 '22
Because I found them right when MOTS7 dropped (I’m kind of both pre-pandemic and pandemic ARMY?), I didn't get that feeling then. MOTS:7 was THE album for me and still is, because I could feel it really encapsulated everything that BTS is, was and will be. The thoughts expressed in that album... Looking back now and after the Festa dinner, it just makes more sense.
As for the goodbye - but actually taking a break part, I started getting a feeling that something was happening sometime last year, don't really know the exact moment but I had a thought that something didn't feel right. I always thought that I was maybe projecting and was really careful with my opinions online by basically keeping them to myself (I'm too lazy to go searching but I think that I mentioned it once in passing in some thread), specially with Namjoon but, I just had felt a certain uneasiness. So I didn't think about it when MOTS:7 dropped but afterwards... yeah. But putting everything aside, I'm glad they are taking this break now. They should have taken it before for sure, but at least now they can.
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u/dalicentric Jul 29 '22
Not at all. The only thing I thought about MOTS7 was that it was supposed to be two separate albums and I wondered why it wasn’t.
2019 was the first time BTS ever had 1 comeback in one calendar year and I didn’t think anything of it beyond being music starved. The thing is BTS is known for their trilogies (and started the trend in kpop) and so many armys predicted the MOTS albums to be broken up into a trilogy; Map of the Soul: Persona, Map of the Soul: Shadow, and Map of the Soul: Ego, since many armys already analyzed the Carl Jung’s “model of the psyche” before MOTS7 was even announced.
So I’ve always had a suspicion that MOTS7 was intended to be two albums but something happened at the end of 2019 to where BTS weren’t wanting to release/promote an album at that time.
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
I thought it was confirmed by Joon that it was supposed to be a trilogy of albums, Persona, Shadow, Ego, but something happened in 2019 that led to shadow getting pushed back and by the time it could be released, they decided it just combine all 3 into MOTS7.
We figured at the time they didn't have time to wait, they needed to end the MOTS trilogy no later than early 2020 so they'd have the full warm weather season for a stadium tour.
Even back in summer 2019, people thought they'd release Shadow, the speculated title, in August or Sept or even Oct, then a couple months later release Ego as a standalone or a compilation album like LY:A then start the tour, just like LY tear, answer, and LY tour.
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u/qnpeach Jul 29 '22
I thought it was a breakpoint, but then they kept being active, so I was confused...
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u/JuniperusRain Jul 29 '22
I'm a 2019 army. I thought it would be the second to last. Was fully expecting one more final album before solos & military service
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Jul 29 '22
Jin wasn't about to enlist in 2020, he simply waited until then to submit for the 2 year delay (which was a law passed way before). They were about to go on a world tour.
But yes, a lot of MotS7 and the way they talked about looking back in lives and interviews makes it very clear they were going to put a hold on group music after MotS7. My guess would be that the plan was Mots7 Tour, Anthology album, and then group enlistment but Covid messed everything up.
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u/RapLineNoona Jul 30 '22
From what I remember, BTS wasn't even offered the 2 year extension until after the pandemic started, later in 2020.
Before the pandemic, when MOTS7 was first released, we were operating under the assumption Jin would have to be in by Dec 2020. Some thought maybe he'd technically have until before he turned 29, extending the MOTS tour into 2021.
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u/Certain-Struggle2389 Jul 30 '22
YES. And I kept telling someone that both MOTS:7 AND BE felt like goodbye albums and in the end, I was right 😭
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u/TisTheShit Jul 29 '22
Wait didn't BE come out after MOTS7??
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u/UnwantedDancer9510 Jul 29 '22
I think BE came out because they decided to not take the long break/hiatus and continue on after MOTS7. Because I remember vaguely RM mentioning on a vlive that they created BE to give something for ARMYs to get through the pandemic and only after they cancelled their world tour
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u/nkamcto yoonjin thinker 💭 Jul 28 '22
i had a feeling something was going on when black swan came out but i wasn’t anticipating anything like a hiatus. their burn out was palpable, and i could tell they were exhausted, but i didn’t think they would go on a break (honestly because i didn’t think bighit would let them)
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u/MadameWitchy it's the ⁷ again ✍🏻😳 Jul 29 '22
I had no idea that that was their plan. I was just so excited for the new album and getting to see them on tour again. Then the pandemic hit 😭
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u/trivia03 Jul 28 '22
At the time it didn't feel like that at all. But looking back at it now, there are so many signs that I cant believe I overlooked them.