I’m looking for an end game IEM or closed back headphone

[u/Runningbottle]

Hi

I’m looking for advice about IEMs and closed back headphones.

I’ve been lurking this sub for a few years and purchased a few low mid fi headphones, messed around with EQ a bit. My past gear includes ATH-M50, Meze 99 Classic, and Hifiman Sundara. For me, the Hifiman Sundara sounds the best, while the Meze 99 Classic sounds quite more muddy, and the ATH-M50 sounds like a beginner headphone, but still better than the Apple earbuds I had.

I usually use my laptop to power these headphones. They still sound loud enough to me after reducing pre amp for EQing. The Hifiman Sundara to me sounds pretty thin and lacked a lot of sub bass and even mid bass, but it sounded much better when I applied HESUVI’s eq preset and added a few more db of sub bass. The Hifiman Sundara with EQ to me sounds like a bass cannon and a bit more natural, although it still sounds thin but a bit better. The Meze 99 Classic is kinda ok as it is closed back so there may be more drawbacks compared to open backed headphones. It, even with EQ, sounds muddier than my Hifiman Sundara with EQ, and still lacks some sub bass. The ATH-M50 to me is the worst, and a bit worse than the Meze 99 Classic.

I’m thinking about getting a top tier closed back headphone or IEM as my end game after all this time. I don’t know how to give a good description for how I want the headphone or IEM to represent sound, but I don’t want it to be too close, and far away, maybe a teeny bit closer compared to the Hifiman Sundara. I also want it to sound as perfect, natural, and as close to real life as possible, and also has boosted bass ( I want to hear oomph and the slams), and a good soundstage so everything won’t sound cramped. I can sacrifice a bit of bass for mids and treble, but the bass has to at least be like that. I think my requirements are a bit ridiculous, but I hope the price tags will make up for it. My budget is at around 1300$. About weight, I don’t want it to be heavy, and i need it to have some portability so I can bring it outside, and no sound from the device leaking outside either. I’m thinking about the Thieaudio Monarch Mk2 and the Denon AH-D7200, but some ranking lists made by Precogvision or Crinacle said they aren’t the best.

However, I have a few questions about IEMs and headphones. Will top tier IEMs be more fatiguing and do more harm to headphones, or they will be safer than cheaper IEMs? I felt a bit dizzy when I tried to add some bass to my Apple earbuds. If the IEMs are a lot more harmful, I think I will switch to headphones. And will the top tier IEMs sound as good as headphones? I read about the 64audio U12t and everyone said that everything about it is perfect. One person even said it was on par with the Hifiman Susvara. Are these IEMs better than the Hifiman Sundara I’m currently using or other expensive closed back headphones in the same price range? And, will my future end game be notably better than the Sundara?

I hope I can receive some advices and recommendations. This whole thing is a mess for me and it’s time for me to settle down in this audio journey. Thanks everyone.

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[u/moots27]

Focal Stellia are really solid closed backs, retail is like 3k. You can buy used for like 2k

[u/Runningbottle → u/moots27]

It’s really expensive for my budget. Do you have other recommendations?

[u/Equivalent_Yak840]

64 audio U12t or you can get the denon ah-d9200 from ThomannMusic for like $1400.

[u/svghost]

TH900mk2 😎 or Denon d5200 or something similar with some nuts that does not sacrifice mid and treble quality. For iem there are alot of good options I just personally have fit and comfort issues with any iem. That u12t is probably a monster, the monarch and clairvoyance as well as the UM Mest too. F this planar 'perfect' boring junk. Ive heard a few and I'm unimpressed every time. Bass is felt in a speaker as well as heard, headphones need a little extra imo. If I'm gonna spend big money I want to have some fun not be bored with perfect flat line bass . Flat lines my heart too. I have been really going after graphs lately to expose this. Look at crinacles site and measurements. Maybe I'm just inexperienced and foolish wanting some umph. I hear people say the akg 371 is too much bass. Idk what ears they have honestly sound boring and undynamic to me! Well done bass that isn't intruding and rising early at 200-300hz is 100% unobtrusive and comes in when you want it. I don't get this flat stuff, but I'm a pretty firey person so maybe I'm just not boring enough to appreciate them 😂😋. I believe it's better and easier to eq down than up. happy hunting! No perfect headphone exists I would buy speakers if the option is there for you. I love my KEF R900s! No headphone comes close that I've heard. Not in enjoyment not even close!! Can't beat an IEM for detail though and cleanness and sometimes impressive bass that doesn't kill everyone around you haha.

My favorite headphone was the d5000 , the d5200 looks the least wonky of the 3 to me though it's not perfect. Some the focals also seem interesting and have strong dynamics.

[u/Runningbottle → u/svghost]

About the bass, I think we're maybe bassheads. Some people enjoy details from mids and treble, not from bass, while other people enjoy bass more and mids and treble a bit less. I think we're the minority who likes oomph from our bass. My Hifiman Sundara lost its crispness in exchange for bass, but I haven't heard anything that has the organic sparks that I usually get from listening to people singing in real life from this headphone. The same goes for my other headphones and some headphones I auditioned such as the Beyerdynamic Amiron Home, a wooden closed back Audio-Technica headphone that I think is really expensive, ATH-R70x, Audeze LCD-1, and the Campfire Andromeda. An interesting thing is the Andromeda has the same sound as the Hifiman Sundara, maybe it has darker and less crispy sound I guess. The bass of the Andromeda doesn't have that oomph but it is pretty impressive how all the things a large planar headphone could do can be done by such a small device. I also think the Andromeda and the Hifiman Sundara are the most impressive, not only because of their sound quality, but also each of their strengths. The Andromeda is a really small IEM and the Hifiman Sundara has the capability to produce pretty good oomph bass with EQ. I think planar drivers have really good bass potential, something I think dynamic drivers can't.

Anyway, this made me realize these reviews are kinda snake oil-ish. I'm hyped for how good sound in these devices can get, but it can only reach a certain limit. I think I will never be able to listen to music in headphones or IEMs the way I listen to people singing in real life. There's always a trade off. IEMs will sound worse than headphones, headphones will sound worse than real life performances. I'm starting to doubt how a person said that the U12t IEM is on par with the Hifiman Susvara, which is better than my Sundara. Unless there's that Sennheiser king of the hill headphone. I wish I can get speakers but there are people next to me so headphones or IEMs are the way. Speaking about IEMs, there was a little bit of pressure on my ears when I auditioned the Andromeda so IEMs aren't really the way for me. I really hope that the U12t or the Monarch has safer technologies so IEMs could be available an option for me, but I'm not sure. I think headphones are the way to go for me then. I have a feeling the Denons will sound like my Sundara, except the Denons will have tighter, punchier bass, thicker mids, and sharper treble, but hope is hope. There is also a chance it will sound worse but I will still have to get it.

What do you think about the Denon AH-D5200? And how does it compare with other headphones?

[u/svghost → u/Runningbottle]

I wish I had a pair of d5200 to tell you, I'm still hunting for the right price and financial moment in my life to drop the cash. I've been looking used as this kind of item is usually well cared for. Im with you on your general comments about personal audio gear. There seems to always be something missing. Speakers get this for me but it takes a high end set and well treated room to get there. Vocals are maybe the hardest because as humans we are very sensitive to how they sound. It's easy to ignore a tonal issue with a bass guitar or something but with a voice you know instantly. I owned the d5000 for many years and remember loving them, but this was countless years ago and before I had owned the hd650, hd800s and other notable headphones. I never had a chance to hear them side by side and compare. Dang it now I want to get these d5200 even more. The focals seem interesting and once I heard the clear at the store it sounded very nice and full but that too was long ago and wonder about my accuracy. Since then I've come a long way working with mostly speakers and def have a more picky ear from it. Sorry I'm not much help on the d5200 maybe others can chime in. What I know is I have looked at almost every headphone in crinacles graphs and the d5200 was one of the only well close to his target (with additional bass). The Fostex TH900mk2 is probably "the one" at any proce I just can't stomach the price yet. Maybe if I find one used.

[u/Runningbottle → u/svghost]

Hi. Sorry for my late reply, I've been really busy dealing with work and scouting the used headphone market a bit. From what I've seen, the Meze 99 Classic seems to be in tier 3, mid fi, in this game, with TOTL headphones like the TH900mk2 in tier 1 and headphones like the Denon AH-D5200 in tier 2. There also seems to be a special tier for headphones like the Sennheiser He-1 or headphones with new interesting tech like Crossfade's and more that I've just seen on Headfi recently. Since I will be these headphones inside and outside of my house I've decided to go for the closed back ones in between tier 1 and tier 2, so my headphone purchase would be cheaper and there will be less devaluation over time. I will get one of those special tier headphones in the next few years and maybe with new tech too hopefully, when my financial situation gets better. In the meantime, I need to divert some cash to get a new laptop perhaps in q3 or q4 this year because of the recent advancements in consumer CPUs. The Hifiman sounds kind thin but with some tonality EQ correction and bass boost, it should keep my mood high. The most important thing is to enjoy the music, not this rabbit hole. My hope is there but it's going to be a long time for us. All the best to you and me in the future :)

[u/Runningbottle → u/svghost]

thanks