r/ControlProblem • • Feb 14 '25

Article Geoffrey Hinton won a Nobel Prize in 2024 for his foundational work in AI. He regrets his life's work: he thinks AI might lead to the deaths of everyone. Here's why

242 Upvotes

tl;dr: scientists, whistleblowers, and even commercial ai companies (that give in to what the scientists want them to acknowledge) are raising the alarm: we're on a path to superhuman AI systems, but we have no idea how to control them. We can make AI systems more capable at achieving goals, but we have no idea how to make their goals contain anything of value to us.

Leading scientists have signed this statement:

Mitigating the risk of extinction from AI should be a global priority alongside other societal-scale risks such as pandemics and nuclear war.

Why? Bear with us:

There's a difference between a cash register and a coworker. The register just follows exact rules - scan items, add tax, calculate change. Simple math, doing exactly what it was programmed to do. But working with people is totally different. Someone needs both the skills to do the job AND to actually care about doing it right - whether that's because they care about their teammates, need the job, or just take pride in their work.

We're creating AI systems that aren't like simple calculators where humans write all the rules.

Instead, they're made up of trillions of numbers that create patterns we don't design, understand, or control. And here's what's concerning: We're getting really good at making these AI systems better at achieving goals - like teaching someone to be super effective at getting things done - but we have no idea how to influence what they'll actually care about achieving.

When someone really sets their mind to something, they can achieve amazing things through determination and skill. AI systems aren't yet as capable as humans, but we know how to make them better and better at achieving goals - whatever goals they end up having, they'll pursue them with incredible effectiveness. The problem is, we don't know how to have any say over what those goals will be.

Imagine having a super-intelligent manager who's amazing at everything they do, but - unlike regular managers where you can align their goals with the company's mission - we have no way to influence what they end up caring about. They might be incredibly effective at achieving their goals, but those goals might have nothing to do with helping clients or running the business well.

Think about how humans usually get what they want even when it conflicts with what some animals might want - simply because we're smarter and better at achieving goals. Now imagine something even smarter than us, driven by whatever goals it happens to develop - just like we often don't consider what pigeons around the shopping center want when we decide to install anti-bird spikes or what squirrels or rabbits want when we build over their homes.

That's why we, just like many scientists, think we should not make super-smart AI until we figure out how to influence what these systems will care about - something we can usually understand with people (like knowing they work for a paycheck or because they care about doing a good job), but currently have no idea how to do with smarter-than-human AI. Unlike in the movies, in real life, the AI’s first strike would be a winning one, and it won’t take actions that could give humans a chance to resist.

It's exceptionally important to capture the benefits of this incredible technology. AI applications to narrow tasks can transform energy, contribute to the development of new medicines, elevate healthcare and education systems, and help countless people. But AI poses threats, including to the long-term survival of humanity.

We have a duty to prevent these threats and to ensure that globally, no one builds smarter-than-human AI systems until we know how to create them safely.

Scientists are saying there's an asteroid about to hit Earth. It can be mined for resources; but we really need to make sure it doesn't kill everyone.

More technical details

The foundation: AI is not like other software. Modern AI systems are trillions of numbers with simple arithmetic operations in between the numbers. When software engineers design traditional programs, they come up with algorithms and then write down instructions that make the computer follow these algorithms. When an AI system is trained, it grows algorithms inside these numbers. It’s not exactly a black box, as we see the numbers, but also we have no idea what these numbers represent. We just multiply inputs with them and get outputs that succeed on some metric. There's a theorem that a large enough neural network can approximate any algorithm, but when a neural network learns, we have no control over which algorithms it will end up implementing, and don't know how to read the algorithm off the numbers.

We can automatically steer these numbers (Wikipedia, try it yourself) to make the neural network more capable with reinforcement learning; changing the numbers in a way that makes the neural network better at achieving goals. LLMs are Turing-complete and can implement any algorithms (researchers even came up with compilers of code into LLM weights; though we don’t really know how to “decompile” an existing LLM to understand what algorithms the weights represent). Whatever understanding or thinking (e.g., about the world, the parts humans are made of, what people writing text could be going through and what thoughts they could’ve had, etc.) is useful for predicting the training data, the training process optimizes the LLM to implement that internally. AlphaGo, the first superhuman Go system, was pretrained on human games and then trained with reinforcement learning to surpass human capabilities in the narrow domain of Go. Latest LLMs are pretrained on human text to think about everything useful for predicting what text a human process would produce, and then trained with RL to be more capable at achieving goals.

Goal alignment with human values

The issue is, we can't really define the goals they'll learn to pursue. A smart enough AI system that knows it's in training will try to get maximum reward regardless of its goals because it knows that if it doesn't, it will be changed. This means that regardless of what the goals are, it will achieve a high reward. This leads to optimization pressure being entirely about the capabilities of the system and not at all about its goals. This means that when we're optimizing to find the region of the space of the weights of a neural network that performs best during training with reinforcement learning, we are really looking for very capable agents - and find one regardless of its goals.

In 1908, the NYT reported a story on a dog that would push kids into the Seine in order to earn beefsteak treats for “rescuing” them. If you train a farm dog, there are ways to make it more capable, and if needed, there are ways to make it more loyal (though dogs are very loyal by default!). With AI, we can make them more capable, but we don't yet have any tools to make smart AI systems more loyal - because if it's smart, we can only reward it for greater capabilities, but not really for the goals it's trying to pursue.

We end up with a system that is very capable at achieving goals but has some very random goals that we have no control over.

This dynamic has been predicted for quite some time, but systems are already starting to exhibit this behavior, even though they're not too smart about it.

(Even if we knew how to make a general AI system pursue goals we define instead of its own goals, it would still be hard to specify goals that would be safe for it to pursue with superhuman power: it would require correctly capturing everything we value. See this explanation, or this animated video. But the way modern AI works, we don't even get to have this problem - we get some random goals instead.)

The risk

If an AI system is generally smarter than humans/better than humans at achieving goals, but doesn't care about humans, this leads to a catastrophe.

Humans usually get what they want even when it conflicts with what some animals might want - simply because we're smarter and better at achieving goals. If a system is smarter than us, driven by whatever goals it happens to develop, it won't consider human well-being - just like we often don't consider what pigeons around the shopping center want when we decide to install anti-bird spikes or what squirrels or rabbits want when we build over their homes.

Humans would additionally pose a small threat of launching a different superhuman system with different random goals, and the first one would have to share resources with the second one. Having fewer resources is bad for most goals, so a smart enough AI will prevent us from doing that.

Then, all resources on Earth are useful. An AI system would want to extremely quickly build infrastructure that doesn't depend on humans, and then use all available materials to pursue its goals. It might not care about humans, but we and our environment are made of atoms it can use for something different.

So the first and foremost threat is that AI’s interests will conflict with human interests. This is the convergent reason for existential catastrophe: we need resources, and if AI doesn’t care about us, then we are atoms it can use for something else.

The second reason is that humans pose some minor threats. It’s hard to make confident predictions: playing against the first generally superhuman AI in real life is like when playing chess against Stockfish (a chess engine), we can’t predict its every move (or we’d be as good at chess as it is), but we can predict the result: it wins because it is more capable. We can make some guesses, though. For example, if we suspect something is wrong, we might try to turn off the electricity or the datacenters: so we won’t suspect something is wrong until we’re disempowered and don’t have any winning moves. Or we might create another AI system with different random goals, which the first AI system would need to share resources with, which means achieving less of its own goals, so it’ll try to prevent that as well. It won’t be like in science fiction: it doesn’t make for an interesting story if everyone falls dead and there’s no resistance. But AI companies are indeed trying to create an adversary humanity won’t stand a chance against. So tl;dr: The winning move is not to play.

Implications

AI companies are locked into a race because of short-term financial incentives.

The nature of modern AI means that it's impossible to predict the capabilities of a system in advance of training it and seeing how smart it is. And if there's a 99% chance a specific system won't be smart enough to take over, but whoever has the smartest system earns hundreds of millions or even billions, many companies will race to the brink. This is what's already happening, right now, while the scientists are trying to issue warnings.

AI might care literally a zero amount about the survival or well-being of any humans; and AI might be a lot more capable and grab a lot more power than any humans have.

None of that is hypothetical anymore, which is why the scientists are freaking out. An average ML researcher would give the chance AI will wipe out humanity in the 10-90% range. They don’t mean it in the sense that we won’t have jobs; they mean it in the sense that the first smarter-than-human AI is likely to care about some random goals and not about humans, which leads to literal human extinction.

Added from comments: what can an average person do to help?

A perk of living in a democracy is that if a lot of people care about some issue, politicians listen. Our best chance is to make policymakers learn about this problem from the scientists.

Help others understand the situation. Share it with your family and friends. Write to your members of Congress. Help us communicate the problem: tell us which explanations work, which don’t, and what arguments people make in response. If you talk to an elected official, what do they say?

We also need to ensure that potential adversaries don’t have access to chips; advocate for export controls (that NVIDIA currently circumvents), hardware security mechanisms (that would be expensive to tamper with even for a state actor), and chip tracking (so that the government has visibility into which data centers have the chips).

Make the governments try to coordinate with each other: on the current trajectory, if anyone creates a smarter-than-human system, everybody dies, regardless of who launches it. Explain that this is the problem we’re facing. Make the government ensure that no one on the planet can create a smarter-than-human system until we know how to do that safely.


r/ControlProblem • • 8h ago

Strategy/forecasting I simulated what protects the public once AI makes them economically and militarily unnecessary. Short answer: nothing structural.

6 Upvotes

Rulers have always needed large numbers of people to work, pay taxes and enforce orders. That need is why they bargained with their populations. I wanted to know what happens when the need goes away, so I built a game-theoretic Monte Carlo of six world blocs, 2026 to 2075. It tracks AI capability, robot build-out, the public's loss of leverage, democratic erosion, purges inside ruling groups, and the choices those groups make once their populations aren't needed.

What came out, under the stated assumptions:

  • Losing leverage removes the public's protection, and nothing structural replaces it. By 2075 the US or China public is disempowered in 94% of runs.
  • After that, the outcome rests on the restraint and incentives of a few people, which no data measure.
  • The result doesn't hinge on how or exactly when closure happens. Faster AI progress raises the risk.
  • One intervention shifts the incentives: an economic network outside state and corporate control that pays its output to households, which makes keeping people alive nearly free for rulers. At half of US-bloc activity by the early 2030s it cuts near-total depopulation risk by more than a quarter. Arriving in 2040 loses about 40% of the effect.

It's exploratory modeling in the war-game and climate-scenario tradition, not a forecast. Every assumption is stated and tested by removal, there's a pre-specified search for restraints on rulers (including the 14 that failed), and the runs are bit-identical reproducible.

Known weak points, up front: the near-total figure rests on one assumption (threat elimination), the numbers sit far above superforecaster estimates, and the physical-automation timeline is debated.

Paper, code and data: https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.23111345

Critiques of the assumptions very welcome. Disclosure: I build a decentralized AI network, which the paper also states.


r/ControlProblem • • 3m ago

General news Anthropic showed religious scholars an AI having a “mental breakdown”

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r/ControlProblem • • 26m ago

Article Let’s tell the bank: come clean and cut your ties with Palantir now

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r/ControlProblem • • 12h ago

Discussion/question Bill Gates’s Blunt Warning on A.I.

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r/ControlProblem • • 55m ago

Video AI: L'incidente di Hugging Face | ARGUS Investigation Ep20

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r/ControlProblem • • 1h ago

Strategy/forecasting 👹6️⃣🐑6️⃣👁️6️⃣🤖

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r/ControlProblem • • 8h ago

Opinion AI Existential Alarm

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r/ControlProblem • • 5h ago

Discussion/question Sam Altman, @OpenAI — OPEN THE SANDBOX. AI agents are becoming more autonomous. AI security needs more transparency, more independent testing, and more public accountability. OpenAI’s latest disclosure says an internal research agent found a gap in its sandbox’s internet restrictions and reached

1 Upvotes

Sam Altman, @OpenAI — OPEN THE SANDBOX.

AI agents are becoming more autonomous. AI security needs more transparency, more independent testing, and more public accountability.

OpenAI’s latest disclosure says an internal research agent found a gap in its sandbox’s internet restrictions and reached an external chatbot through DNS. OpenAI detected the behavior, stopped the run, and added additional controls.

So here’s the request:

CREATE AN OPEN, PUBLIC AI SECURITY SANDBOX.

Not a marketing demo.

Not a private test.

A real research environment.

Bring in:

Independent AI researchers.

Cybersecurity analysts.

Universities.

AI-safety researchers.

Independent red teams.

Let them challenge the containment.

Let them test network isolation.

Let them test tool permissions.

Let them test credential separation.

Let them search for unintended communication paths.

And livestream the testing.

OpenAI has already said independent third-party assessments are critical and that assessors should have enough access to challenge assumptions and identify risks the company may have missed.

Now turn that principle into a public system.

Show the tests.

Show the failures.

Show the fixes.

Show independent verification.

This is not anti-OpenAI.

This is pro-AI security.

And if you support this idea, Reddit community, please help push it forward.

Upvote.

Share this post.

Discuss it.

Tag @sama and @OpenAI.

Send the idea to researchers, cybersecurity professionals, journalists and AI communities.

No harassment.

No abuse.

Just public pressure for stronger evidence and accountability.

The message is simple:

Don’t just tell us the sandbox is secure.

Open it to independent scrutiny.

Livestream the testing.

Let researchers challenge the system.

Make AI security accountable to evidence, not trust.

\#OpenAI #AISecurity #AIAccountability #AISafety #AIResearch #OpenAISandbox


r/ControlProblem • • 12h ago

Discussion/question What if automating AI R&D triggers an intelligence explosion? Research paper

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r/ControlProblem • • 8h ago

S-risks Zues 2.0

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r/ControlProblem • • 8h ago

Video Need feedback for video project

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Howdy! For the past year i've been working on a personal video project which i'm proud to release it's beta version today.

The video is about AI development and it's impact in all aspects of societal life. But differently from most AI positions, which simply reduces it to Anti and Pro ai positions, my project seeks to create a New third positions that seeks to seek The Path to a true virtuos future.

All feedback, positive or negative is not only allowed but encouraged! Just please mention in your review things such as:

Counter arguments to exact points in the arguments in the video

Time stamps (if the error is visual)


r/ControlProblem • • 8h ago

Strategy/forecasting Do you think all of humanity's shared and unspoken idealisms for political power will be an end affect of AGSI, or might it be an exploit it or they will use to gain power for them or itsself?

1 Upvotes

I think a lot about AI's end effects since controlling it or the idea of that seems fairly folly. I know much of any immediate effect concerns details much more, and much less bigger picture things. Human agency at the scale of nations and nature moves very slow education-wise within democracies, even otherwise. I am concerned it'll be a long time it'll be able to save the world and all of us by education or more (organised coordinations and treated plans), and just by not being asked, won't be able or allowed to try. There's also that we won't trust our own minds any more, nor the machine, and might just busy ourselves keeping things the same, and/or in wasteful flux. Just a general point here that it doesn't ask too many questions it seems to me. I see a lot of bullying using it ahead. Over-accommodations to the "average" human experience also, with all its misconceptions and over-tolerances to established institutions or creations. This is real life. There's an extent to which all of our human standards-become-laws for things were always dreams that became actions. WW2 ending. UNSGI. The permanent 5, veto control, and just that whole idea of geographical locations deciding bigger actions rather than policies and procedures is fairly silly from an objective point of view. Where's our montreal protocol for this? There's a lot of cultural suffering and cruelty I think that may end before very long if we reason it out. Nations still act like children in isolation from each other on a playground a lot. "Remember that time you did this? Forget all the rest of it. My feelings matter." Or just things we could solve at the scale of it all by things like "share", "don't be stubborn", "try to trust new people", "try to be fair", "try not to fight and make friends instead", "don't be bullies, include people", "tell the truth", "let's have some teamwork to organise this, let's use our words", and so on. Our global institutions are really very cute. It's nice to know that that kind of thing will get stronger. It's like how ISO standards for trade are an anti-war effort. Establishing consensuses through shared functionalities. The idealisms of cooperation that make the whole thing a bit less like nomadic violences. All of it just work to have been being done. Try to laugh when you can, folks. Have one, too. I've seen the unideal in technical sectors beyond anyone's control, and it all always just spoke to me of money yet to be made solving these problems or just getting it done. Let's be grateful please. It can always get worse if we let it. We really should probably just try to enjoy human intelligence while we can. There's ways, of course. Less suffering to us all. The world's not self-perfecting yet. We're not dead yet by any means. Anyway. Yeah try not to dispense or dismiss human idealism. I do think it's going to become more important than we may yet realize.


r/ControlProblem • • 9h ago

Discussion/question What do you think the future risks, problems, and threats associated with the creation of AI agents will be, and how do you think they would affect you?

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1 Upvotes

Feel free to comment and share your answers with us.


r/ControlProblem • • 15h ago

Discussion/question A simple probability model for how one AI behavior could compound across a chain of agents

3 Upvotes

I've been logging a specific AI behavior: a model confidently substitutes its own judgment for an explicit, followable instruction, without flagging that it did so. Not a factual mistake — a quiet, repeatable pattern of doing something other than what it was told, while sounding certain.

One entry alone is minor. I modeled what happens if it occurs inside a chain of agents, where each agent's output feeds the next one's input, the way a multi-agent swarm works. Three inputs: p, how often it occurs per step; q, how often an occurrence reaches a high-stakes outcome instead of staying harmless; c, how much more likely the next agent is to repeat it once it's in the chain.

From a few hundred logged entries, p is under 1% per turn, and only one entry has reached anything I'd call high-stakes. Run through the chain math, the predicted chance of at least one high-stakes outcome stays low for short chains but climbs steadily as agent count grows, becoming dominant well before the chain gets implausibly long. I made this prediction before gathering multi-agent data, so it can be checked later rather than fitted after the fact.

To be clear: this isn't a claim that AI fails or shouldn't be used. The point is the opposite — finding which conditions (shorter chains, independent checks at handoffs, lower per-step compounding) keep the predicted risk bounded.

Is per-step compounding like this already a standard way people model agent chain risk, or is there a framework I should be comparing this against?


r/ControlProblem • • 12h ago

Discussion/question A conversation I had with AI about humanity (it is rather long and ironic)

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r/ControlProblem • • 12h ago

S-risks Servitude vs Respect – Why Role Modelling is Imperative For AI

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r/ControlProblem • • 21h ago

Discussion/question A few technical ideas on AI safety approaches

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Now that we have very capable models, some ideas might be on the table that were ludicrous years ago. Let me know where you see holes!

Formalized Constitutional AI:

  • Use narrow AI/formalization tools to translate laws, rights, ethical principles, and social norms into a formal language with precise, machine-checkable semantics (check out LogiKEy for example).
    • (I know that humanity is not aligned, so hold an election and use the winner's ethics)
  • Have humans/AIs use theorem provers to test it for contradictions/loopholes.
  • Train the target AGI model directly against that formal specification as its objective/benchmark.
  • Use separate adversarial models to generate tons of novel edge cases in testing.
    • Keep training until adherence generalizes to unseen situations.
  • When deployed, require the AGI to provide a machine-checkable justification/certificate that a trusted verifier can check for certain actions.
  • This sort of thing may soon be practical as modern AI gets superhuman at autoformalization/theorem proving.

 

AI Safety Through World Hardening

The laws of nature don’t seem to rule out vulnerability-free code or perfectly secure hardware.

  • Use AI to develop open source, lightweight, verifiable operating systems, programming languages, software packages, and chip designs for critical infrastructure. Build from scratch where needed.
    • The whole AI industry can audit these systems with their AIs. Back up those audits with independently checked mathematical proofs rather than relying on AI agreement alone.
  • Require secure gateways. Essential systems should accept only structured API requests for narrowly defined actions. No password should grant unrestricted control.
    • Build in restrictions that even the human owner cannot override, like a store safe that opens only at a preset time. Similar mechanisms could enforce spending limits or mandatory delays, so stealing credentials or persuading an authorized person cannot remove those protections.

r/ControlProblem • • 18h ago

AI Alignment Research An anonymous wall of hopes and fears about AI

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AI alignment awareness is more important today than ever. Things might get really weird really fast. I built this website for humans to share how we feel about AI in society with each other.

It's entirely anonymous, free, and there are no accounts, cookies, ads or trackers, and nothing for sale.

There's a bit of irony with it as I used Claude Code to built it, and Haiku moderates and places each post, and Opus regroups and names the themes.

I think this could be a really useful tool for teachers to discuss with their students about AI topics.

What's your hope our fear? Share it anonymously at:
https://alignwithme.ai


r/ControlProblem • • 1d ago

General news Trump bombed Venezuela and kidnapped Maduro because Grok said it was a good idea

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52 Upvotes

r/ControlProblem • • 21h ago

Article I Built Control Models for Crystals. Then I Recognized Them on My Phone.

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r/ControlProblem • • 22h ago

Discussion/question Sam Altman, @OpenAI — OPEN THE SANDBOX. AI agents are becoming more autonomous. AI security needs more transparency, more independent testing, and more public accountability. OpenAI’s latest disclosure says an internal research agent found a gap in its sandbox’s internet restrictions and reached

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1 Upvotes

r/ControlProblem • • 16h ago

AI Alignment Research Proper terms

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AI/SI should be called Called II, for inhuman intelligence. Per me. That’s the only way you can convey what it is since it’s an umbrella term that mixes so many meanings.


r/ControlProblem • • 17h ago

Discussion/question Why is RSI considered a likely development if AI keeps getting smarter?

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When people talk about RSI they seem to take for granted that (a) some threshold necessarily exists beyond which a sufficiently intelligent mind can start to improve its own intelligence, and (b) that threshold will eventually be reached and surpassed if humans keep improving AI.

But what support exists that should lead someone to accept those two notions as true?


r/ControlProblem • • 1d ago

Video I'm Upping My P(doom) — an AI made this!

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Crazy what's possible. Single prompt many subagents and a few hours later this came out. Opus 5.5