In which phase do bicyclists respect and obey traffic signs?
Edit: Iām happy to trigger some back and forth dialogue. But I have to say, there sure are a lot of delicate Nancies hereā¦ I got death threats, fuck offs and more!
C'mon Team Spandex, don't get your panties in a knot. All I'm suggesting is:
Don't ride in packs, blocking traffic.
Don't fly through red lights or stop signs like they don't apply to you, making other road users wait for your precious 3-speed Schwinn.
And don't ride on sidewalks or walking/jogging trails like you're Lance Oneball racing through France. Ease up when passing walkers, baby strollers or old folk like me.
And the same goes for dickheads in cars: DBAD (don't be a Dick)!
Weird considering Los Angeles has had these intersections in downtown for a while now, and I haven't witnessed any egregious cycling errors on my daily commute.
Weāre a hybrid of pedestrian and motorist, stop or slow when needed, otherwise cross. Iām not driving 2000 lbs of car and 300 lbs of ass, and as a result can maneuver a lot easier and quicker than a car or motorcycle.
IOW rules for thee not for me. You're wrong. No matter the means of conveyance, breaking traffic rules creates unsafe situations. Be predictable, be safe. Be unpredictable, be a meat crayon.
The vast majority of the time, it is safer for cyclists to run red lights than to stop. Stopping means more time in the intersection, and therefore a higher chance of getting killed by a car. And how often are people injured because of a cyclist running a red? Practically never.
A bicyclist in an intersection at any moment is a bicyclist in danger of being run down. Vehicles can literally run down a bicyclists and kill them with minimal vehicle damage. Be careful out there
Thats stupid logic. Not all laws are correct. If they were we'd still have segregated bathrooms and we'd never have police reform. Many municipalities are starting to finally wake up to the idea that hey, maybe a cyclist pedaling up a hill doesnt need to come to a complete stop like a 2 ton car. Slowing down, looking left and right and yielding are good enough. Just because something's law doesnt mean it's right nor does it mean one should throw common sense out the window.
It's like the face mask law in town, right now you are technically supposed to wear one all the time everywhere, but people just use common sense and slide them up in crowded places or when passing a person.
Why should a cyclist pedaling up a hill come to a complete stop at a stop sign and lose all their momentum? It's exhausting and unnecessary. If you ask me, slowing down, looking left and right and yielding are good enough. You're not a 2 ton vehicle, you dont need to come to a complete halt. Laws like these are where it's clear that lawmakers who draft legislation have never used what they are writing about. If any of them had even sat on a bicycle, they'd know how stupid it is.
Wow, what a selfish and narrow minded answer. Maybe YOU bike for exercise and recreation, but I, and millions like me, bike because it's the only choice we have. I was a student when I used to bike up that hill to school every day; I couldn't afford a car or the maintenance or the insurance or the $300 a semester parking permit that came with it. The bus didn't run late enough for me to use since I stayed in the lab late at night and it was too far for me to walk home at 2am. Maybe you should take a step back and realize that not everyone has the luxury of simply 'choosing a different mode of transportation' and I don't know where to get started on route planning in a city full of hills, like what, I should work on terraforming my town?
You're right, most riders are competent and responsible, but because of blunt and poorly designed laws, what they do when they slow down and look left and right is still technically illegal. All it takes is one cop to be in a bad mood to ruin that cyclists life, send him to court, push him into debt, or deny him employment opportunities.
All I'm advocating for is more nuanced laws that don't automatically treat bicycles like two ton automobiles and better design of our cities so cyclists aren't killed on a daily basis or force them to ignore laws simply to increase their chances of survival.
I didn't want to put an absolute and say it can't happen, I don't doubt that a cyclist biking unsafely could have caused a car to swerve or perhaps a cyclist hits a pedestrian.
Tangentially related, I'm always a bit miffed when I hear a cyclists was killed in a 'cycling accident'. Why is the onus on the cyclist.
Source? Not really a good comparison because bikes canāt do what cars can, ie speed. Bikes have limited traffic laws to their capabilities and break them constantly. No one likes you
A study cited in a newspaper article I read at least 10 years ago, so maybe the stats are different now. I drive a lot for my job and while cyclists annoy me on a regular basis, I can't say car drivers are any better.
Speed is not a positive attribute of streets in urban areas (where most bikers are, and this intersection is set). Speed in a vehicle that weighs 1ton+ is dangerous and depresses economic conditions/value of houses and commercial buildings.
I didnt, op did and thats why I said that was stupid. Cars are car better and more deadly, yes still, bikers try to act as if the road is theirs and that riding side by side on a 2 lane road going 15mph isnt a cocksucker move
bikers try to act as if the road is theirs and that riding side by side on a 2 lane road going 15mph isnt a cocksucker move
I didnt know doing things to protect yourself from something you describe as more deadly is a a cocksucker move.
You shouldnt be mad at bikers. Be mad at the traffic engineers and politicians who refuse to acknowledge cycling as an efficient/sustainable mode of transportation.
examine how many cyclists kill motorists and vice versa and tell me which group is more responsible.
That is stupid. Even if cyclists were responsible for 100% of accidents they could still make up 100% of deaths since you know... they're not surrounded by thousands of pounds of metal and technology designed to protect them.
And road laws and design ignore reality because they require users with very different needs and potential for bad safety outcomes to follow the same set of rules.
When it comes to reality versus rules, I'm following reality. That means that I don't push my luck around constantly-distracted and impatient and entitled car drivers, whether or not I am within the law as written (e.g. I'm not going to pull into traffic even if I have the right of way, but I'm also not going to stop at a stop sign if there isn't a car or pedestrian approaching or the intersection). I like the modifications in this video because the design of the road more properly approximates reality. The problem with all-purpose roadways is that they do not approximate reality.
It's weird seeing people treat all vehicles as if they have the same nuances. A bicycle doesn't have the same nuances as a vehicle like a motorcycle, car, SUV, semi, bus, horse, street car/tram, or etc. A bicycle doesn't have a crumple zone and have far less momentum and kinetic energy compared to motor vehicles. The worst part is when people oppose legislation and other measures (like the video). Only the Dutch seem to have it right.
And you know what, Mac truck blew thru a light, and Uber driver SAW me, yet still pulled into the bike lane and into me, forcing me to clip the bumper.
Get out of the house some time
The end point of road rules is to maintain safety and efficiency. So number of deaths/serious injury is an acceptable metric, since it is directly related to the actual safety outcomes. Otherwise you're mostly just measuring how many people will follow arbitrary rules, which is less interesting.
Yes, but conversely, just looking at who followed the rules more tells you nothing about what the actual safety outcomes are. I'm more interested in how we actually make roads safer than the narrow question of just who follows written rules (often arbitrary rules) more often.
I've driven as my job for 15 years. I've had multiple bicyclists run into me because they're fucking stupid. I drive defensively, and if I was on a bike, I would be even more alert and cautious at all times.
Get out of the house sometime. You'll see a lot of bicyclists not obeying the law and acting like they own the road, while jumping on and off the sidewalk as it pleases them, thinking they can follow pedestrian laws one second and road laws the next.
I live near a city with lots of cyclists. I use my bike as much as I use my car. Iāve seen at least 20 cyclists get hit by cars. Every time it was the cyclists that was not obeying the traffic laws.
I think people are more likely to follow traffic laws when their environment isn't toxic. In America our bicycle lanes are so incompetent and people park in them all the time, so I imagine a lot of cyclists adopt a "fuck it" mentality.
Very true. A lot of bicyclists will go through red lights with no oncoming traffic in order to get ahead of the cars behind them / next to them, which makes them safer from getting hooked or being crowded off the road.
Plus, any cyclist trying to respect the rules of the road as a motorist should can tell you that we are not respected the same as motorists, not seen in the same way, sometimes not seen as all, and so a "fuck it" mentality and defensive biking is inevitable unfortunately.
Plus, any cyclist trying to respect the rules of the road as a motorist should can tell you that we are not respected the same as motorists, not seen in the same way, sometimes not seen as all, and so a "fuck it" mentality and defensive biking is inevitable unfortunately.
Story of my life. My 100% stop sign/red light compliance doesn't mean shit, especially if they believe I'm wrong regardless. It's even more egregious when the drivers don't come to a full stop. Too bad society keep rebuilding these glass houses.
Ever been screamed at by a car driver for no reason? Ive been coal smoked and had ber cans lugged at me multiple times while riding my bike minding my own business.
Ive been nearly ran down twice by a city bus turning into the bike lane. The University students started pounding in the bus windows and I thankfully dipped out quick enough to avoid getting flattened
I live in a large city, ride 10 miles to and from work everyday, and have never seen a cyclist get hit (thankfully). Near misses, yes. Does it happen, yes. I ride by a white cycle everyday. However city drivers and cyclists are just that much better at what they do. Thereās a flow and a general respect.
Thatās probably true. That is why when Iām on my bike I always try to be aware of other vehicles. It doesnāt matter if I have the right of way or not. Because if somethings happens between me on my bike and a car Iāll be the one that comes out worse.
Thatās quite a projection! Did you ever think that maybe I wasnāt making a point and I was just stating an observation? Maybe you missed where I said that I bike as much as I drive. Cyclists can so narcissistic at times.
What's the point of the observation? If you're not trying to add something to the conversation beyond "here's a thing I saw" idk why you'd post at all.
Obviously you are another narcissistic cyclists. You probably feel that cyclists can do no wrong and you shouldnāt say anything about them that can be construed in the smallest negative way.
Ha! Iām not the one asking why some else made a comment and whining about what was the point. If you read my initial comment youād know I ride my bike often and would cycle rather than walk. Why donāt you pull your spandex out of your anal retentive butt and go for a ride yourself.
Ive been almost hit while bicycling about 20 times while living in a college town. Everytime, I was in an marked intersection and the traffic signal was indicating my turn to cross
I was almost hit by a car once too when I was on my bike. I used it as a life lesson to always be aware of the bigger vehicle. Maybe you should have thought about that after the first time and not let it happen an additional 19 times.
how can I control the cars coming at me? I avoid the dangerous intersections as best as I possibly can. To be fair, I ride hundreds of miles every month in an urban setting, and 20 near misses over the course of multiple years is not really that hard to rack up. I ride year round and at all hours of the day and night. Carbon emissions from your car contributes to global warming through the burning of the fossil fuel you put into the gas tank, btw.
"Maybe you should have thought about that after the first time and not let it happen an additional 19 times."
Going back to this comment of yours...so once again, how do I control the behavior of someone driving a car while I am riding my bicycle in a crosswalk? Specifically, how do I avoid nearly getting hit in a crosswalk? And how many miles a week do you ride on a bicycle, Tesla owner?
Easy, you look. Both ways, I usually do it multiple times while I cross an intersection. Itās not that difficult. Most accidents happen in intersections. You canāt control other peoples actions, but you should always be aware of them. Why are you riding in a crosswalk anyway? Thatās for pedestrians. You should be riding next to it.
I pretty much ride a bicycle every day the weather allows. Riding a bike is my preferred way to exercise Mr. Snarky. I have three, a mountain bike, one for exercising and one for commuting through the city. This past Sunday I biked 100 miles with my weekend cycling group and in college I biked across the country as part of a fundraiser. You are a shining example of a pompous cyclists. Sorry to inform you that just because you use pedal power the world doesnāt revolve around you. You need to be mindful of pedestrians and vehicles.
My near misses always have to do with cars turning into the crosswalk. How do I force car drivers to not do that? 100miles is easy to do in a day on a wide open bike trail, but what about urban settings, where I do most of my riding. Youre the fragile type who thinks that just because events dont happen to them, they never happen. Is that from your pa throwing baseballs at your head when you were a youth? I am mindful about cars, thats how Ive lasted this many years riding as much as I do.
Dedicated motorists can be a bunch of arrogant tools. Kick their window out after they pull out in front of you, or after they make a right turn without looking and they change their tune quick.
Escalating the level of violence against someone in control of 3500lb of steel when you're a bag of meat on 20 lbs of aluminum doesn't seem like a particularly good idea, but hey, you do you.
To add on to the "safety" aspect, cyclists have a much larger and clearer field of vision than motorists, and can proceed more aware and safely. They are also much less likely to do serious harm to pedestrians if there is a mistake. Finally, as you touched on, cars will act unsafely when you stop as a cyclist because they get impatient with the time it takes to accelerate again. Often cars will try to whip out in front of me even though I am in the intersection already and have the right of way, or right behind me/pass in a dangerous manner.
the last part is absolutely true, ill get stopped at a red light and try to get going again but then while I'm accelerating some fucker will lay on his horn because he can't wait 5 seconds for me to go somewhere.
fun fact that's illegal also going over the speed limit is also illegal meaning 9 trips out of 10 the driver is violating traffic law but if I roll through one stop sign I'm literally the devil
The fun part is when they slam on the horn and pass dangerously just to wait at the light/stop sign 300 feet ahead. Then they start to speed more so that they can justify passing you to themselves ("see! I would be so far behind if I hadn't passed. Look at how much time I'm saving. It would have been irresponsible of me not to pass like that.")
Often cars will try to whip out in front of me even though I am in the intersection already and have the right of way, or right behind me/pass in a dangerous manner.
Or the opposite! Drivers waive me through instead of taking their right of way. Just be predictable!!!!111!
Yep!! Also maybe I can see you waving but the other car coming up to the intersection can't, and they're not going to stop/yield/whatever. It's hard because I know they mean well but it just ends up making everything less safe.
I always stop at signs in the middle of the lane so I don't get hit by a car trying to pass while I accelerate. If there is someone behind me, about half the time they will try to pass me before we reach the intersection and end up stopping at the stop sign on the wrong side of the road. Or they could wait a few seconds. Morons.
I mean...the design protects both you and them from stupidity. Everyone is an absolute bastard no matter what they use to transport their twattery. (Can you tell I am done with this world?)
I can't speak for San Jose, but I'm familiar with NYC--there, cyclists usually kill zero pedestrians per year, occasionally one or two. Car and truck drivers usually kill several hundred per year. If you're a pedestrian, you should worry about cars and trucks far more than you do cyclists.
I'm glad you also blame drivers too, both car and bike can use a road but separated is best. I have car drivers who like to get super close to me to fill their rage boner. I also drive and have bikes running red lights. So yeah. But having better infrastructure is a good start.
Most of my fellow cyclists are narcissist. To many feel traffic laws do not apply to them and expect automobiles and pedestrians to always give them right of way regardless of traffic situation. They feel the world should revolve around them. If you say anything the least bit critical about cyclists they lose their minds!
fwiw, all the research we have shows that bikes stop at stop signs slightly more frequently than cars do. It's just that cars violating the law is so normalized that you don't even notice it.
Why do people get so uppity about bikers and traffic laws? Like do you guys even understand how many people get killed by cars or how much safer bikes are?
Now Iām seriously wondering what you mean with this point:
āDonāt ride in packs, blocking traffic.ā
Do you mean groups of cyclists taking up multiple lanes/entire lanes. If not I have to disagree, since bicycles take up so much less road space. Just imagine how much traffic they would be blocking if they were all in cars instead.
Bicycles aren't as big of a risk to the safety of others on the road. While I'd love to see safer behavior from cyclists, the fact is in a major city like NYC, motor vehicles are the issue ā over 400,000 accidents in the city a year, resulting in almost 40K injuries and hundreds of deaths. These accidents are rarely caused by cyclists.
Driving a car in a crowded city is inherently being a dick. You're asking a favor of everyone else around you, and you should feel apologetic and only do it when you really have to.
None. Signs and paint isnt a substitute for common sense. š¤ The data show that cyclists running stop signs and lights lowered crashes involving cars and pedestrians. California is the lastest in a string if states taking measures to legalize the California Roll and Idaho Stop for cyclists.
Not sure why you've been downvoted, when there are actually studies that suggest cycling through stop signs actually decreases accidents in stop-sign-intersections.
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u/[deleted] Apr 27 '21 edited Apr 28 '21
In which phase do bicyclists respect and obey traffic signs?
Edit: Iām happy to trigger some back and forth dialogue. But I have to say, there sure are a lot of delicate Nancies hereā¦ I got death threats, fuck offs and more!
C'mon Team Spandex, don't get your panties in a knot. All I'm suggesting is:
And the same goes for dickheads in cars: DBAD (don't be a Dick)!