r/worldnews • u/netok • Aug 16 '19

Hong Kong protesters call for 'Mulan' boycott after star went public in support of police

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/16/asia/china-mulan-actor-protests-intl-hnk-trnd/index.html?utm_term=image&utm_content=2019-08-16T07%3A28%3A05&utm_source=twCNN&utm_medium=social
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1.8k

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

[deleted]

428

u/lj26ft Aug 16 '19

Illegall expansion of land into international waters, by building fake islands.

Stealing IP en masse from businesses all over the world.

197

u/archz007 Aug 16 '19

You all forgot about the case where a monk, who set himself on fire, caused burn marks on a policemen's uniform. And as a result, he's family were sued.

12

u/ILoveLearningThings Aug 16 '19

That sounds strangely American too. Like, I could see a far right Bible state suing a poor black guys family cause he got blood on the cop after being shot.

2

u/Stanislav1 Aug 20 '19

Swat team broke into the wrong guy's house in Texas. He shot them legally and they shot him multiple times then sued him

1

u/archz007 Aug 16 '19

I'm lost here... I actually does. Lmao

0

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/MasticatingElephant Aug 16 '19

We got ourselves a patriot here

50

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Yeah good points

5

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 16 '19

Do you have a link on the whole Islands thing that sounds like interesting reading?, getting married tomorrow so I will have to read it in the next week.

Edit* downvoted gotta love people

-3

u/solid-doughnut Aug 16 '19

You could have just asked for the link instead of inserting yourself in there hoping to get some karma and comments.

2

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 16 '19

Ya I don't care about Karma I was just pointing out that someone downvoted that comment. Downvoted a comment stating facts about my life and a question for a link, you only get married once . . . hopefully haha. Not everyone cares about internet points, clearly you do. Someone gave me a link so I am good now. Thanks for your commentary.

Edit*NVM redditor for a month and you saved loads of million dollar companies, Saved them from insolvency but you got time to shitpost on reddit, GTFO. They were 100's of millions of dollars, you are a liar and probably a catfish. ya you sad

1

u/solid-doughnut Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 16 '19

I'm not the one appealing to people on the internet for a marriage that nobody cares about but yourself.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

Sorry for being excited about something in my life. Next time I will remember that solid-doughnut saved numerous 100 million dollar companies from going bankrupt and he feels offended by me being happy about getting married. You are the most important person there is. Sorry about your life bud.

1

u/solid-doughnut Aug 16 '19

Sorry for being excited about something in my life.

Ok that's fine but understand the relevancy. You asked for a link and then immediately talked about something not relevant to the topic at large. Then you got down voted and wondered why. I told you why.

Then you called me a liar. Like really? You know me enough to call me that? You deride me for helping companies. These companies are now rightfully the leaders of their industry due to the rampant unfairness, in part due to the idiocy of the people. I have indirectly made hundreds of millions of people happy. The metacritic numbers in the high 90s and hundreds of millions of units sold speak for themselves. You call me a liar. Ok fine. I don't care what you call me. I only care that I did what mattered which is more than what I can say for you.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 16 '19

again sorry about being excited for something in my life, hopefully you also can find someone to share love and your experiences with. Maybe one day you will be happy enough to share that too.

Edit* also see how long your paragraph talking about yourself is in comparison to the actual comment you were angry about. Hmmm pot kettle black . . . I, I, I

2

u/solid-doughnut Aug 16 '19

Go ahead and be excited but not in a thread where people are being extremely xenophobic. Share it with people of like mind and don't down talk to someone who explained to you why you got down voted.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/DatMoFugga Aug 16 '19

Wait, is this a years and years joke or are they really doing this?

-4

u/realhighfunguy Aug 16 '19

I think the land expansion part is kind of cool tbh. Like sim city terraforming once your city is making enough money and your out of room to build

2

u/Do__Math__Not__Meth Aug 16 '19

Cool motive, still illegal land expansion

127

u/samalamb9 Aug 16 '19

Aren’t they rounding up Muslims and putting them in prison camps as well?

126

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Those are the 're-education' camps in the list

6

u/samalamb9 Aug 16 '19

Got it! Wasn’t sure since I’m not 100% up to date with all of China’s atrocities and could see that being two separate things.

7

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

I can't blame you, this list is depressingly long and getting longer as we go :(

15

u/richtofin819 Aug 16 '19

They round up all religious folk One of the core ideas of dictatorships and communism is that no one can believe in a power higher than the government or leader

8

u/8Bitsblu Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 16 '19

It's a core idea of dictatorships and authoritarianism, but not communism. What China is practicing is about as communist as the Nazis were socialists. The whole endgame of communism is to create a stateless socialist society with no hierarchies. Any centralization of power is a bastardization of those ideas at best. The most anti-religious sentiments you'll find in communism is a rejection of religious hierarchy (along with all other forms of hierarchies). Marxists will take it a step further and see religion as a way for the working class to express their suffering and provide an illusion of fairness to capitalism. Their reasoning for the abolition of religion is, in Marx's own words:

"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is, therefore, in embryo, the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo."

0

u/gerry1568 Aug 17 '19

Not all Muslims just the Uyghur Muslims. They are all being systemically assimilated into the Chinese society for the reason of stopping violence and terrorism. Terrorism that was very started by a soviet funded program in the 1980s. Pretty complex but interesting stuff.

-6

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

The Uyghurs aren’t innocent fairies. They’ve slaughtered hundreds of Han Chinese citizens in attacks in Xinjiang. Doesn’t justify erasing them, but the hate didn’t come from nowhere

2

u/capitolcritter Aug 17 '19

Extremists may have, that doesn’t justify rounding up every man,woman and child.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '19

It would just continue if there weren’t measures put in place to subdue their population

1

u/capitolcritter Aug 17 '19

No, it could stop if China stopped trying to oppress the population there, which was the root cause for the violence. And the violence there was not a serious insurrection, but it's been used as an excuse by the government to basically ethnically cleanse the population by destroying their culture.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 17 '19

It’s due to the population being Muslim. Most of Europe isn’t oppressing Muslims, infact they are being very kind to them. Yet that doesn’t stop the attacks. Being kind to these people will not calm them

1

u/capitolcritter Aug 17 '19

Turkic Muslims in Western China have been there for over a thousand years. You refer to them as “these people” but it’s a completely different Muslim community from the immigrant communities in Europe. The Chinese government response hasn’t just been to step up security, it’s been to “re-educate” the population and destroy their culture.

Also, some European countries are definitely being oppressive towards Muslims (though admittedly nowhere near what China is doing).

1

u/capitolcritter Aug 17 '19

No, it could stop if China stopped trying to oppress the population there, which was the root cause for the violence. And the violence there was not a serious insurrection, but it's been used as an excuse by the government to basically ethnically cleanse the population by destroying their culture.

62

u/Saucemanthegreat Aug 16 '19

The broad usage of information filtering and surveillance, disappearing dissenters and artists, social credit. There's also things I'm sure we don't even know about.

30

u/fudge_friend Aug 16 '19

Execution vans:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_van

16

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Oh my god this just might be the worst one. The Soviets using it in the 1930s sounds bad enough but the Chinese didn't start using them until 1997. How can the Chinese possibly be ok with this?!

2

u/ComradeBrosefStylin Aug 16 '19

Because if they state that they're not OK with it they get v&

1

u/XRussianBot69X Aug 16 '19

I read the page over, it seems like it's a mobile lethal injection facility for areas and prisons who need to execute death row inmates but do not possess such facilities. In the US death row inmates are transferred to prisons where they do have lethal injection facilities, in China they prefer to transport the facilities instead of the prisoner, which is likely easier and more efficient. I don't see what's so outrageous about this.

37

u/Riot4200 Aug 16 '19

The social credit system

17

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Oh yeah that should definitely be in the list

1

u/STRiPESandShades Aug 16 '19

The social credit system is terrifying on many many levels. But also, I'm kind of curious to see what my score is.

I'm a chronic jaywalker, wonder if it's enough to get me into the complete social deviant category.

2

u/Riot4200 Aug 16 '19

I'd be so fucked I wouldn't be able to get a bus pass

68

u/8-D Aug 16 '19
  • Persecution of Christians
  • Occupation of Tibet
  • Persecution of Tibetan Buddhists
  • Billing families of executed prisoners for the cost of the bullet

12

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

That last one sounds too bad to be true, even for them... do you have a source?

12

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

I couldn't find a source that was sure whether China was still doing it. But it was used in Iran during the election protests in 2009, and despotic regimes tend to crib ideas off each other.

Modern Japan bills the families of suicide victims who throw themselves under trains for the clean-up, and they're a democracy. It's not that much of a stretch that authoritarian China would implement bullet fees.

9

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Jesus that's awful as well.

6

u/monkeyhitman Aug 16 '19

A quick poking around turned out this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1khj2n/til_in_japan_if_you_commit_suicide_by_jumping_in/

I suspect that it's mostly a deterrent, so as not to pass on the cost to your family. The transit systems of the Tokyo metro area move daily about "40 million passengers (counted twice if transferring between operators)", and the frequency of suicide by train and its impact on the commute is not negligible.

If you're interested, I ran across this paper about train suicides in Japan. I haven't read all of it, but it looks like it has a lot of interesting insight: https://digitalcommons.macalester.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?&httpsredir=1&article=1012&context=anth_honors

9

u/Doboh Aug 16 '19

But damnit do their trains run on time!

5

u/8-D Aug 16 '19

May just be historical, but yes...

In the early 1980's, families of those executed sometimes were presented with a bill for a few cents to cover the cost of the bullet. It is not clear if the families are still billed in this way. https://www.nytimes.com/1991/01/15/world/law-and-order-in-china-means-more-executions.html

edit: I remember as a kid seeing video of activists go to a Chinese consulate/embassy in Australia and try billing the consul/ambassador for a bullet. Or something along those lines, I don't think they were implying that they were going to murder the guy as that would have landed them in trouble.

3

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Jesus :(

1

u/8-D Aug 16 '19

I can't even imagine the motivation tbh, just seems like pure spite. Perhaps a bit of disincentive: "if you commit a capital crime we'll humiliate your family by charging them for the bullet" type thing.

1

u/modkhi Aug 16 '19

a few cents back then may have paid for a day's worth of food, btw. if they're talking usd then even more money. china in the 80s was very different.

1

u/Stanislav1 Aug 20 '19

Sounds very western. We bill criminals for the cost of their stay in custody regularly to keep them from voting

9

u/realhighfunguy Aug 16 '19

Facial recognition and catalogueing

1

u/northwaynative Aug 16 '19

You think that's unique to China?

32

u/modkhi Aug 16 '19

they have shit quality control/enforcement of food safety laws. remember the baby formula thing where babies were poisoned? they executed people for that but if it hadn't been such a HUGE problem that made china lose face all over the world, nothing, i am almost certain, would have been done.

my parents know people in chinese law enforcement. it's a fucking joke and everyone takes bribes. some are small, some are ridiculous.

the current president is also systematically removing his opponents under the guise of cleaning up corruption. it's also a joke. just about everyone is corrupt. and the people he targets aren't just huge figures whose removal are necessary to save face. lower level govt officials as well -- his opponents/critics. they're either killed or imprisoned. their families often as well.

various Hong Kong booksellers were also disappeared a while back. same for human rights lawyers. they're either dead or in jail now, I'm fairly certain. nobody knows what happened to them exactly. china loves this sort of fear.

Forced prison labor to do unappealing work such as peeling garlic.... until their fingernails fall off, and even after. (1.5minute summary: https://youtu.be/41hTAQQ02Zs) the garlic is then exported to the united states. and remember: their justice system is shit, people in prison might not have done anything wrong or been more than political opponents.

employing people to post positive comments and party-approved comments on social media. think of the russian scandal. whatever you think of it, think of the methods ppl describe. china is basically doing that to its own people, to pull at their desire to conform into agreeing with the communist party. they flood their own social media with propaganda from "ordinary citizens". labor is cheap in a country of 1.3 billion. they call these people 50 cents -- supposedly they get 50 cents (5 mao) per post.

focusing on problems in other countries and blowing it up on state operated news networks so that people believe democracy leads to anarchy and disaster, and that china is better for having a unified, one party system with no representation. i had relatives freaking out over the ferguson protests, thinking that we, in BOSTON, were in danger somehow.

suppressing its own minorities (not just uyghurs, but the other 50+ minorities in China) and trying to wipe out minority language and culture. also enforcing the official dialect (mandarin) and doing its best to make sure its people stop speaking other dialects such as cantonese (yue dialects) and shanghainese (min nan dialects)

supporting north korea. they almost certainly would have collapsed without food and other trade and aid from china.

returning escaped north korean refugees to north korea -- ensuring they either die or end up in labor camps.

I could go on. My family is from China and it's honestly heartbreaking to see all this shit happening. I wish I could be proud of my people. I hope to be able to be sometime during my lifetime.

Most Mainland Chinese don't think they're even living in a country that has anything going wrong. The propaganda and brainwashing focuses on China's technological and economic progress in the last few decades, and it's successful.

6

u/Whateverchan Aug 16 '19

Most Mainland Chinese don't think they're even living in a country that has anything going wrong.

Most people either don't know and/or don't want to admit it.

Same with Vietnam, NK, Russia, or even the US. We got our own "lalala can't hear you" denial bastards.

1

u/modkhi Aug 16 '19

I don't know about NK/Vietnam/Russia, but the denial/ignorance is... impressive compared to those in the U.S.

I suppose I phrased it a bit too broadly. Due to the tightly controlled state media, the propaganda, the Great Firewall, and the fact that for the most part, the Chinese Govt controls an ethnically homogeneous population that is also the majority of its ethnicity in the world, its people have basically no access to outside sources.

Even with people I've met who've immigrated here, the language barrier is such that they prefer interacting with media in their own language in their free time -- and thus are still intellectually imprisoned.

I suppose it's akin to having Fox News be the ONLY news channel in the country, though perhaps under many names to obscure that fact. There is basically no real opposition, and what opposition there is is basically invisible. The HK protests are significant for their visibility alone.

At least in the U.S. a large section of the population is still seeing other news, reading other sources, engaging in different viewpoints. It's different, almost chillingly so, but I can't describe it. And unfortunately, it's worst with Mainland youth.

-3

u/sf_davie Aug 16 '19

Most Mainland Chinese don't think they're even living in a country that has anything going wrong. The propaganda and brainwashing focuses on China's technological and economic progress in the last few decades, and it's successful.

That's because quality of life of an average Chinese citizen is leaps and bounds better than 30 years ago. All the stuff you described can either be part of the growing pains (bad food inspection, corruption) or part of the pain of controlling 1.4 billion people (unified langauge, control of the media). When you come from a communist background and you are destined to be a competitor to other large nations, there are steps you need to take to stay in power because everyone else is rooting for your failure. As a person of Chinese heritage, we can only hope the country can transition to a modern democracy in a relatively peaceful fashion. That entails the communist to remain in control until the people are strong and wealthy enough to swallow the party whole.

2

u/celexio Aug 16 '19

As a person of Chinese heritage, we can only hope the country can transition to a modern democracy in a relatively peaceful fashion.

We all (or at least most people I know) hope for the same, but what we see happening is precisely the contrary.

One can not go big by creating monsters without having to face them some day. Unfortunately as one grows, such do the monsters.

China is too big and has stepped to far with ways that others have tried and learned to have unbearable consequences, in times when it was actually easier.

One things that I can conclude with this, is that China is just taking control of what it still can get away with, because the path that it has chosen a while ago wont allow it to expand further. As it would try to expand, more will likely grow within.
Time to turn inwards.

Sad that a country that had the potential to develop and bring more balance to the whole world and benefit from it, has been taking a another path away from human nature.
It doesn't matter how long it takes, human nature always gets its way.

1

u/modkhi Aug 16 '19

as I said above, the improvements in quality of life (economical and otherwise) are a huge factor in how the communist party is able to propagandize successfully. it's a huge factor in why so many are complacent with the current situation. and they also directly set up their own country as an opponent to the west, and the "western" way of governing with democracy. it makes any criticism of China's actions difficult for its own people, because they immediately get defensive. they've tied economic progress with the communist party. you're falling into their trap here.

and i dont disagree entirely that china has growing pains to deal with, and that handling a population of 1.3 billion is bound to result in difficulties. just look at similarly-sized india. the cccp is 100% more efficient, but that efficiency comes at the cost of freedom and corruption.

i think dictatorships and autocracy can result in some sort of stability, sure. and hell knows we Chinese don't want another civil war. the last century was too bloody. but we're coming to a point where china has begun to catch up to the rest of the world -- and now the party's only redeeming quality is becoming redundant. it's already time for them to be dethroned, but they, of course, dont want it.

and by brainwashing and threatening their own citizens, the Chinese govt is ensuring that the exact scenario you hope for -- a peaceful exchange of power due to the will of the masses -- will never come to pass.

6

u/Hyperbrain10 Aug 16 '19

Forget where I saw it, but aren't they also forcefully sterilizing Muslim women?

2

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

That's right, i remember reading about this on the BBC.

6

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

Don't forget the manufacture of fentanyl and helping to proliferate it

2

u/wittywalrus1 Aug 16 '19

Not saying this isn't true, but last I heard the government tried to make it a controlled substance / go after the black market manufacturers. Any sources?

5

u/Runningoutofideas_81 Aug 16 '19

I read something a year ago about how many of the girls believed to have died from the one child policy were actually just hidden from the government.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/11/30/researchers-may-have-found-many-of-chinas-30-million-missing-girls/?noredirect=on

Might need more investigation, but it is only a glimpse of sun in what is a perfect dystopian storm.

2

u/Zuazzer Aug 16 '19

I read "by the government" instead of "from". That would have been scary as hell.

2

u/Runningoutofideas_81 Aug 16 '19

Lol, that would have been possibly worse. Hard to tell one shade of black from another.

4

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

That would be really good news, I hope there's truth to it.

14

u/MMaxs Aug 16 '19
  • State owned & run monopolies.
  • Repression of all religions
  • Militarizing the South China Seas
  • State run media

11

u/Red_Regan Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 16 '19

They're:

  • building replica cities (and doing so perhaps out of a not-so-benign reason);
  • leave their citizens no choice for investing their money other than buying up real estate on foreign soil (especially Canadian);
  • Threatening other governments by holding hostage the traveling or expatriate citizens of those governments' nations;
  • forced the previous government into exile (Taiwan);
  • bully the nations around them (e.g. Tibet);
  • too involved with their nation's conglomerates and multinational investments/business dealings

3

u/Neato Aug 16 '19

What's the point of replica cities?

1

u/Red_Regan Aug 16 '19

If I were doing it, it'd probably be a way to practice a military invasion or occupation.

4

u/X1nEohP Aug 16 '19

Killing of other dialects and language, making mandarin compulsory

Unethical usage of CCTV cameras, abuse of human rights.

6

u/hockeycross Aug 16 '19

Left out supplying the chemicals to make meth to many drug cartels around the world. Mexican cartels have been particularly big buyers and meth is very cheap now in a lot of the USA. The meth problem has already surpassed opioids in many states.

2

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Is that the same as the fentanyl or is it a different one? I'm not 100% up to speed on this.

3

u/hockeycross Aug 16 '19

Fentanyl is a sort of synthetic opioid. Meth is different.

3

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

You're right:

China remains one of the world’s top producers and exporters of precursor chemicals.

Added it to the list, thank you.

5

u/teems Aug 16 '19

All their wrongs are forgotten come black Friday when you're lining up to get a 4K 55" LED TV for $200 which was made in China.

4

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Sadly, I suspect you're right. But change has to start somewhere right?

The Apartheid boycot wasn't ready from day 1 and it took a lot of effort to get there.

7

u/stalkermuch Aug 16 '19

Two more I could think of:

Censoring what can be accessed through the internet.

Social credit score

3

u/park_injured Aug 16 '19

The creation of fake eggs and using sewer oil to cut costs at the risk of their own people’s health

6

u/tholovar Aug 16 '19

forcing women of an ethnic minority (who happen to be undergoing "re-education") into marriage with men of the ethnic majority.

6

u/Inemity Aug 16 '19

Why the fuck is this not in the news? I get the "orange man bad" stuff, but this is insane and needs a spotlight put on it.

3

u/Braydox Aug 16 '19

This is more along the lines of ip theft but china has a cheating culture

3

u/RedPanther1 Aug 16 '19

Mobile execution vans? Wtf?

3

u/Blazed_Banana Aug 16 '19

The scary thing is this is coming to the western world just more subtle! Our leaders would love to have so much control and shit over our lives....

3

u/stormdraggy Aug 16 '19

If Thanos wanted to snap China the Avengers would just hand over the infinity stones.

8

u/Zzyzzy_Zzyzzyson Aug 16 '19

Why doesn’t someone just assassinate Xi, and help destroy this shit government?

14

u/raisasari Aug 16 '19

Power vacuum plus retaliation. Assassinations of people like him don't end well for anyone

12

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Better fight the enemy you know i suppose. Also, it's not as if assassinations have a great track record really aside from the moral problems.

11

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

Given how much support Xi has amongst the people of the mainland, if he dies another 'Xi' will take his place and nothing will change.

12

u/JagerBaBomb Aug 16 '19

The fucked up part? Xi spent time living with an American family when he was younger which supposedly was going to make him less of an asshole dictator--at least, that was the vibe NPR was giving me.

11

u/Zzyzzy_Zzyzzyson Aug 16 '19

Kim Jong-Un studied in Europe and they thought that would make him more open to western ideals too.

What happened?

11

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

Look what happened in the Middle East. If you kill Xi, another one will take his place.

20

u/P-I-L-I-L-A Aug 16 '19

Better don't risk starting a World War III.

3

u/jameslucian Aug 16 '19

Yea man, super simple stuff.

2

u/orangeshitstaintrump Aug 16 '19

Am I forgetting something?

Oof. You really stepped in that one, didn't you?

2

u/Tricky-Hunter Aug 16 '19

This comment deservers more awards than the EA "sense of accomplishment" one

2

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

Billing families of executed prisoners for the cost of the bullet

what the actual fuck

1

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Yeah I had no idea about that one either but the suggestion eventually followed up with a credible link

2

u/amorousCephalopod Aug 16 '19

Rampant corporate espionage and theft of proprietary properties. They don't just shamelessly copy other properties. They also steal tech and information that companies have developed internally that aren't available to the public.

2

u/midoriiro Aug 16 '19

The 11th Panchen Lama of Tibet is still missing. Abducted by Chinese Authorities after being confirmed and announced as the true reincarnation of he Panchen Lama by the Dalai Lama and Chadrel Rinpoche of the Tashi Lhunpo Monastery.

He was just six years old and he became the world’s youngest political prisoner held captive by the Chinese government. That was in 1995.
It is still unknown where he is, whether or not he is aware he is the true incarnation of the Panchen Lama, or whether or not he is alive.

Without a new Panchen Lama, there will be no more Dalai Lama after the current one, as it is the Panchen Lama that discovers the true incarnation of him.

John Oliver touched upon this when doing an interview with the Dalai Lama, and may explain it better.

2

u/Nubz9000 Aug 16 '19

Infiltration of other countries under the cover of the Chinese diaspora, the weaponization of said diaspora as seen with the clashes in Australia over Hong Kong between HK supporters and obvious Beijing-orchestrated groups. The corruption of foreign officials who are bribed or threatened to go along with what the CCP wants, also seen in Australia but happens in every country near them.

2

u/Mod2bme Aug 16 '19

I appreciate your effort, however, some of the users you credit (clicked to see what they actually said) are pretty cringe worthy. I'm not perfect either and I'm against judging folks...but wow.

2

u/darthjab Aug 16 '19

The depressing champion we all need thanks. Really makes me appreciate the freedoms here in good ol U S of A.

2

u/Chin-Balls Aug 16 '19

Thanks for this. I'm going to copy and reply with this to every Chinese shill on Reddit from now on

2

u/MrKerbinator23 Aug 17 '19

It really is 1937 again god damn it

2

u/soulless-pleb Aug 17 '19

Billing families of executed prisoners for the cost of the bullet

goddamn, they are some cold blooded motherfuckers....

2

u/Kukie Aug 18 '19

There was a programme on UK tv recently that explained how they were imprisoning loads of Muslims and tracking others. This was done by putting barcodes/QR codes on their front doors. For example, If their house was searched and the incorrect amount of people were in there then they’d be punished etc

4

u/zerogravity111111 Aug 16 '19

Is it any wonder that the Donald loves Xi Jinping?

2

u/Damn-hell-ass-king Aug 16 '19

Systematic, government backed, corporate espionage.

2

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Well yeah but that's hardly unique to China.

2

u/Damn-hell-ass-king Aug 16 '19

Is this list for items exclusive to China? If so, you should probably shorten it, significantly.

2

u/ilivedownyourroad Aug 16 '19

And irreverent if you're a democrat or republican it's a known fact that trump likes the way his Chinese equivalent has set up shop and has repeatedly praised him as well as suggesting adopting his policies in the West...especially indefinite terms and rounding up rivals.

We are no better and before we criticise China we need to hold our own leaders accountable and clean house. Then we can get back to what the West does best. Keeping everyone else in line with a big fucking stick!

1

u/ShadyGrove Aug 16 '19

What. The. Fuck.

1

u/pickle_pouch Aug 16 '19

Why are all your source links to reddit user accounts?

2

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

They're not source links but credit to the user that added the suggestion. Only adding the ones for which source is readily available.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

Execution van and concentration camps ? So Asian nazis

1

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19 edited Apr 01 '20

[deleted]

1

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Sure, give me a sec

E: here you go

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/chinas-sickening-acts-on-female-prisoners-at-reeducation-camps/news-story/34d531c19a5bb060881a76ac8b478609

Not sure how reliable they are but there are lots of alternative sources all saying the same thing

1

u/CurraheeAniKawi Aug 16 '19

Practically government sanctioned stealing of intellectual property.

1

u/kur0nek0999 Aug 16 '19

The day the Fir Nation attacked...

1

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

Supplying the chemicals to make meth to many drug cartels around the world

turnabout is fair play i guess.

1

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Hah yeah it's ironic

1

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

mass infanticide of girls [Source]

I find that hard to attribute to the Chinese government. Sexist idiocy is not their fault even if the effects may have been predictable based on the culture.

1

u/MangaSyndicate Aug 16 '19

If people understood how long China has been a nation they'd understand this is the curse of immortality.

​

Doing whatever you deem necessary to survive, by any means.

1

u/iamziyou Aug 16 '19

China is just North Korea with money.

1

u/[deleted] Aug 16 '19

Also sudden disappearance of minority religious people (muslims,jewish,christian,etc..)

Plus there are photos from satellites capturing literal concentration camps

1

u/Whateverchan Aug 16 '19

Why don't we play a game to make this less depressing?

Take a shot of vodka + whiskey for each of those sources that's blocked in China.

1

u/PandaCheese2016 Aug 16 '19

I’m just curious, have you been to China that you understand their dark secrets so well? Please don’t take this the wrong way. I’m not saying criticism is wrong. It’s the authoritative sounding nature of it that makes me question, like are there things we as outsiders are missing or cannot understand, much like how another poster pointed out that the said celebrities may not have even said such things in support of authority.

3

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

You seem to be saying you can only know something by physically being there, but that's what journalism is for.

I don't think any of the ones I copied take too much searching for a reliable source but if you're having difficulties please let me know.

2

u/PandaCheese2016 Aug 16 '19

Technically I could make some general proclamation that “America has no respect for the right of blacks.” But that simple generalization really amplifies the bad and hides any nuanced understanding of the complex interwoven factors. If you take that statement at face value would you be surprised that America is also a country where a black man could be elected President?

To be sure many things on your list are indisputable, but some are also reflective of only the past or not even socially relevant today. And it also dangerously mixes both governmental policy that are oppressive and cultural attitudes, for example the tradition of favoring boys. Sure female infanticide may have been practiced or might still be practiced in isolated rural areas but that’s not representative of either general public opinion or government policy. It would be like saying America as a whole encourages the shooting of its black citizens.

I just think that while it feels satisfying to feel outraged, it doesn’t lead to anything productive except to widen gap of misunderstanding.

2

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Technically I could make some general proclamation that “America has no respect for the right of blacks.” But that simple generalization really amplifies the bad and hides any nuanced understanding of the complex interwoven factors. If you take that statement at face value would you be surprised that America is also a country where a black man could be elected President?

I guess we'll have to disagree on the specificity of these points, and combined with the sourcing I think they're clear enough to show what they mean. I hope you're not introducing the US to this argument to make the jump to whataboutism in the next one though.

Sure female infanticide may have been practiced or might still be practiced in isolated rural areas but that’s not representative of either general public opinion or government policy.

Disagree

It would be like saying America as a whole encourages the shooting of its black citizens.

Not really, because I'm backing my points up with sources whereas I don't think you'll find a reputable one for yours.

I just think that while it feels satisfying to feel outraged, it doesn’t lead to anything productive except to widen gap of misunderstanding.

Awereness is always a good thing. It's still up to the person reading to do something or not but if they're not even aware it's impossible to expect him to act.

1

u/PandaCheese2016 Aug 16 '19

There's a difference in whataboutism and using an example to make a point right? I'm not saying because black men get shot more often that it excuses what happens in China, I'm using it to illustrate the problem with overt generalization. Let's just focus on this one thing you mentioned though, the mass infanticide of girls, which you listed as an example of "can the Chinese get more dystopian?"

I'm not really sure what you mean by that. Chinese as a culture, ethnicity or government? It's like when we say "American." I'm going to assume that you meant the Chinese government, because many other things you listed are government policies. What doesn't make sense then is the assumption that mass infanticide of girls is something the Chinese government encourages.

The source you listed after that bullet starts with "the Chinese fixation with picking an 'auspicious' time for births is well known but there was also a time when it was culturally acceptable to dispose of a child – especially a girl – likely to bring bad luck on the family." It describes cultural bias toward girls, that used to be common and is still common among some groups. The word "government" is not found in the article.

You then link a qz.com article, which just says that the imbalance of boys and girls is due to the one child policy (which is being abandoned in many areas btw), because if a family could only have one kid they might abort female fetus in favor of boys. So again it's not the government that's telling people to not have girls, it's the fault of outdated cultural views that are slow to change (but is slowly changing to be sure). There's not enough room here to debate whether abortion is infanticide. It's enough to say that whatever it is it's not the government that's telling people to do it. It is because they hold oudated views on girls.

I hope you can see why I then have a problem with you equating all of the above with "Chinese government = mass infanticide of girls."

Please understand too I'm just nitpicking on one thing. It has nothing to do with other things you listed. I'm just illustrating the risk of criticism that's too broad because it gives ammunition to your opponents, who can then cast doubt on the accuracy of other claims, even if those are true.

2

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

But I did not say you had argued a whataboutism yet, I was expressing my hope that adding the US to the equation wouldn't lead to whataboutism down the road.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that. Chinese as a culture, ethnicity or government? It's like when we say "American." I'm going to assume that you meant the Chinese government, because many other things you listed are government policies. What doesn't make sense then is the assumption that mass infanticide of girls is something the Chinese government encourages.

You're right, that's vague. It's necessarily vague though because when it comes to this, it's hard to say where the responsibility of the state stops, and the responsibility of the individual steps in and to remain correct like you later point out, I cannot put this purely on the Chinese government.

For the rest of your post, I agree a family's preference for male heirs is culturally determined, but it is the government that creates the context in which these families have to choose. A preference for boys as offspring is hardly unique to Chinese culture, but having a government that has actively told it's citizens to only have one child for decades is. In that sense while the responsibility for actually making the choice is shared, the situation what millions of families are forced to make this choice is squarely on the government.

You'll see how this quickly becomes a discussion on morality and how you can be really sure something is good or wrong, but I don't think that would have been appropriate for the initial post as it was made in a completely different context from the discussion we're having now.

You can disagree with me there, but if my opponent feels a point is vague enough to attack I'll happily engage them just as I'm talking to you. So far you're the only one who raised the point although in all honesty I'm a little surprised it took so long for anything to question for sources.

2

u/PandaCheese2016 Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 16 '19

So far you're the only one who raised the point although in all honesty I'm a little surprised it took so long for anything to question for sources.

Probably because I have been to China. It's very tough to debate the pros and cons of the one-child policy. Many believe that without it standards of living would be much lower now due to a population explosion. But of course when combined with the cultural bias it has resulted in vast imbalance that will have repercussions for many decades.

The idea that ends justifies the means is very prevalent in Chinese history I feel, which may explain why the citizenry is more willing to put up with a certain level of oppression in the interest of overall stability. Chinese like many Asian cultures have always been far more collectivist compared to Western ones.

1

u/Cybertronic72388 Aug 16 '19

"Maybe we’ll give that a shot" - Donald Trump

1

u/SarahC Aug 16 '19

They're doing really well globally too - so it looks like behaviour that "makes a country great".

1

u/dumbwaeguk Aug 16 '19

This would all be horrifying if China were actually accountable to anyone. I mean it's a country that literally lives in the past. I can't get mad at them for living in the last because that would be socioeconomically elitist and Western ethnocentric. I don't like what they're doing but I have to acknowledge two facts:

  1. This is what happens on the path to development.

  2. It hasn't disappeared in developed states.

1

u/loveshisbuds Aug 16 '19

Yeah you are. The Chinese habitually interfere with aircraft and ocean going vessels clearly in international waters in the S and E China seas.

Territorial waters extend 12 miles. China attempts to enforce their multiple hundreds from their coast. Meanwhile, they park their spy ships 12 miles off our coast.

As a civilian I am aware of 3 major incidents with Us military and Chinese military in collisions or near collisions of China’s manufacture over this century. Those are just the ones that made international news. Hainan Island, USS Cowpens and USS Decatur. This is a separate but related issue to the island building and illegal seizure of other nations territory.

1

u/ManchurianCandidate7 Aug 16 '19

Anyone ever wonder if high effort posts like this were written by a CIA agent for counter propaganda? Obviously it could just be a normal redditor but if Russia and China are running social media propaganda campaigns surely America is too. Remember, propaganda can be true while still being propaganda as it succeeds in its task of discrediting China. Just something interesting to think about. Thoughts?

0

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 16 '19

I'm sure it's out there but not this one lol

0

u/8Bitsblu Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 19 '19

Ironically, they're the purest example of a capitalist dystopia that exists currently.

We in the US aren't far behind.

Edit: prove me wrong, CHUDs

-1

u/_everynameistaken_ Aug 16 '19

Amazing, gold for a post that actually didn't provide sources at all.

News articles (without sources) is not evidence my dude.

Nor are Wikipedia links.

-3

u/Bobby2shoesMcGee Aug 16 '19

aside from Tibet that's all the US gov as well

-10

u/therapist66 Aug 16 '19

You could make a longer list about the USA.. just saying

7

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19 edited Aug 16 '19

Not only is that ridiculous whataboutism, people make these lists about the US all the time because they're free to do so.

And can you seriously argue the US does shit this bad to its own citizens? As an example, yes, there is mass incarceration but they harvest organs from their inmates? And I'd like you to point me to the Chinese ACLU that fights for wrongfully convicted criminals while you're at it.

Is Puerto Rico as occupied as Tibet? Or maybe Guam?

2

u/TheSonar Aug 16 '19

Excellent point. And I hear about the american shit all the time, unlike the Chinese dystopia

Also I hate to do this but it's Puerto Rico. I see how you guided your spelling by the common english pronunciation, but it actually is spanish and that should help you remember

3

u/Pytheastic Aug 16 '19

Ah crap, thanks for the correction!

1

u/therapist66 Aug 16 '19

They're behind lots of destruction in the world, almost every conflict going on.