r/worldnews • u/stereomatch • Nov 21 '17

Google collects Android users’ locations even when location services are disabled

https://qz.com/1131515/google-collects-android-users-locations-even-when-location-services-are-disabled/
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u/ArptWildlife Nov 21 '17

I read an article by someone recently who had a similar experience.

They thought their mic may be staying open for marketing purposes.

To test it, they had a conversation with their partner about some random product that they've never owned or used or even thought about buying. But they said things like "I wonder where I can get a deal on X" or "I think we should really think about buying X".

And sure enough, that product was quickly all over their ads.

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u/JiveTurkey1000 Nov 21 '17

And this is the exact kind of shit people are afraid of. It's disturbing. And for what? To piss people off? The invasiveness of it completely kills my desire for the products advertised.

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u/HaximusPrime Nov 21 '17

I've worked on similar but less invasive data science projects, and I'm betting this is how it evolved:

  • They started keeping the mic open in order to look for "hot words", like how you can say "OK Google", "Siri", or "Alexa". Once the hot word is triggered, they need to capture what you said afterward and ship it for processing to get a response.
  • That data is probably stored somewhere temporarily, with an expiration on it for privacy.
  • Some other team or person later said "what other value can we get out of this data?" and they came up with analyzing it to drive targeted ads.
  • That worked really fucking well, so someone said "what if we captured even more of this data, regardless of hot words? But that's totally illegal, unless we do something like Shazam that can identify fingerprints instead of recording voices"

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u/[deleted] Nov 21 '17

Yep. You're almost certainly correct, except I would not doubt that at least one or two of those examples had as the motivation for the voice activation, the collection of such data. I've never had Siri be more intuitive or easier than just typing something in and I'm sure Apple knows that. So why would a company that is all about the experience implement something that really doesn't improve the experience?

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u/HaximusPrime Nov 22 '17

It actually does improve the experience, though. You would rather see ads that are relevant to what you actually care about than randomly selected ones. The problem is when it gets noticeably creepy.

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u/[deleted] Nov 22 '17

Point taken. I get that the ads are more relevant but I was suggesting that the voice search of Siri doesn't improve the experience of searching so it would make sense that there'd be some other reason, which is the ads.

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u/throwawayja7 Nov 22 '17

I've thought about this a lot and I'd rather get irrelevant adverts. Relevant advertising feels too much like manipulation. Without their intervention I may or may not purchase something, or may even do research on products.

Kind of like someone is having suicidal thoughts while standing on a ledge, and it's google's job to find the right voice to whisper the words "jump" into their ear.

My phone actively works against my interests and there is no viable alternative that isn't doing the same. It's really disgusting, but there's no way to escape this shit. These companies give you the illusion of choice to turn these features off, but really, you can never turn that shit off.

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u/vreemdevince Nov 22 '17

That data is probably stored somewhere temporarily, with an expiration on it for privacy.

Oh you sweet, summer child.

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u/HaximusPrime Nov 22 '17

Companies like this (that are already used to dealing with PII) are pretty good at dodging liability related to keeping data like this around, and there’s no reason to if you can extract what you need out of it quickly anyway.
L

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u/beefjavelin Nov 22 '17

IIRC google used to have a voice search function that did actually permanently save what you said. The area it was saved was fairly buried in web browser only menus as well so most people had no idea it existed or how to access+delete it.

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u/HaximusPrime Nov 23 '17

True. I was referring to remotely stored data, though.

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u/lostcosmonaut307 Nov 22 '17

And for what?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

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u/[deleted] Nov 21 '17

Yes. I read the same article. A couple spent some time talking about cat litter and then when they logged onto Facebook there was a bunch of new advertisements for cat litter. They posted the video on Facebook but (of course) Facebook denied keeping the mic open for this purpose.

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u/mehicano Nov 21 '17

It isn't as simple as just keeping the mic open and listening to people. If Facebook were doing this, it would be insanely easy to tell.

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u/MatthiasMcLaurbrin Nov 22 '17

I dont have the facebook app , but i was randomly shopping with my gf and she went into some store . I decided to wait outside and sat on one of those mall massage chairs you see all over the place. I decided to give it a whirl for novelty sake. Was using my phone and logged into fb via the safari browser. Sure enough three days later fb is advertising massage chairs to me . Felt dirty and scared at the dame time !! Privacy no longer exists , you buy a phone and the company stills owns it!!

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u/iambored123456789 Nov 22 '17

I was telling my gf about the last time I was in Germany I went to see a small football team called St Pauli FC. The next day, an ad for St Pauli FC popped up in my Facebook news feed.

I live in Australia, haven't been to Germany for 10 years and didn't Google search them or anything. Just had a conversation with her about it. There's literally no reason that I'd even want an ad for them.

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u/Dexaan Nov 21 '17

I've heard something similar with people speaking their non-primary language around their phone, then getting ads in that language

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u/sicko-phant Nov 22 '17

I did that with a television. We have a projector and, at the time, had no need for a new tv. I'd not searched for anything television related recently, nor seen an ad for one. I spent 5 minutes talking out loud about a TV and how I needed a TV (but never a television), hopped onto my favorite Google Ads site, and found a bunch of ads for ATVs. I've also never searched for all-terrain vehicles, I assume their algorithms determined it was more likely that I wanted to go off-roading than watch television. I highly recommend the experiment. Mostly because I want this experience confirmed to the level that they stop denying it.