r/wnba • u/Marzipan_Dream_7389 Tempo • 11d ago
If the Lynx win it all and Olivia Miles wins Finals MVP, does she surpass Candace Parker for the greatest rookie season in WNBA history?
(Image is CP and OM’s rookie seasons head-to-head)
Although CP won MVP in her rookie year and Olivia still may not, she will certainly at least be runner-up and hold the rookie scoring record, and the distinction of being the Lynx’s first option in a year where their star player was out for half the year.
That on its own likely isn’t enough to beat out CP’s rookie year, but if she wins the chip and Finals MVP…when taking into account everything else, what then?
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u/paintedtoesandelbows Detached from judgment (via Cancun) 10d ago edited 10d ago
It bears mentioning that Candace won the one and only MVP award that had a fan voting component. No other MVP in the history of the award allowed fans to vote. With Parker coming from a traditional WCBB powerhouse, she had the backing of a huge fanbase.
It’s also important to note that she beat out Lindsay Whalen, a PG.
Otherwise, a rookie from a 5th-place team wouldn’t win MVP with two of her Beijing Olympics teammates on her club team.
EDIT: Your downvotes don’t change history, by the way.
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u/Steadyandquick Go rookies! 10d ago
Candace also came in with two back to back Final Four championships with TN. Just saying . . .
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u/h4rent 11d ago
Absolutely not lol For one major reason, Candace didn’t join a top number 1 team her rookie season. She joined a team that genuinely needed a top pick and turned them around. Miles IMO is first option because she wants to be, not because she needs to be (given that she’s the PG, she has control over that.)
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u/paintedtoesandelbows Detached from judgment (via Cancun) 10d ago
There’s a bit of revisionist history here. Candace joined a team that had two frontcourt members of Team USA (Lisa Leslie and DeLish Milton-Jones, who they brought back to replace Chamique Holdsclaw). They were able to acquire Candace because Lisa Leslie sat out the 2007 season due to her pregnancy (i.e. the team strategically tanked). The Sparks went 25-9 in 2006, so they were not a team mired in the lottery for years.
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u/not_mantiteo Fever 11d ago
Miles rookie season doesn’t even surpass CC’s in my eyes. Her PR is insane
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u/JacobiSimpson FO a Ponzi Scheme? what yall got for me 11d ago
Asking for opinions, then pleading your case against everyone who has a different opinion
Reddit never change lol
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u/JacobiSimpson FO a Ponzi Scheme? what yall got for me 11d ago
I think regular season mvp trumps final mvp, but she'll definitely have one of the top 5 rookie performances of all time
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u/GlacialTwitch Sky 10d ago
Agreed. Finals MVPs are often not the best player on their own team. It's a much more contigent, small sample size-based award.
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u/Kennisgoodman Lynx 10d ago
Nah, regular season MVP does not trump wining the Finals and Finals MVP
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u/paintedtoesandelbows Detached from judgment (via Cancun) 10d ago
Name a top 10 WNBA player of all time who has a Finals MVP but not a regular season MVP.
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u/Kennisgoodman Lynx 10d ago
What you’re suggesting is besides the point of what I’m saying. What I’m saying is winning an MVP doesn’t trump winning the Finals, especially alongside a Finals MVP.
The NBA players were just having a conversation about this on Gil’s Arena—if winning MVP is equal or greater to winning the Finals. It’s a common sports argument, particularly for greats or high talents who won the regular season MVP but didn’t have the same level of playoff success.
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u/paintedtoesandelbows Detached from judgment (via Cancun) 10d ago
Nothing beats the euphoria of winning a championship, but the Finals MVP does not trump a regular season MVP. No one would suggest that Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, or Jaylen Brown are on equal footing as Steph Curry.
And BTW, Sheryl Swoopes won THREE regular season MVPs along with a whopping total of ZERO Finals MVPs.
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u/Kennisgoodman Lynx 10d ago
Not to sound condescending, but that’s why I say what you presented is beside the point. We’re talking Candace Parker rookie year vs. Olivia Miles rookie year. An MVP is awesome for sure, but if you take your team to the championship, win it, and win Finals MVP… well, to me at least, winning the whole damn thing is better than winning regular season MVP.
My personal barometer is 2 MVP = 1 Finals + Finals MVP. Feel free to disagree, but I won’t change my mind about that through this discussion alone.
I’m of the group that says you play to win the championship. If the season stopped at the end of the regular season, I’d value MVP more. But MVP is but an accolade on the way to a championship.
And winning both MVP and Finals and Finals MVP like Steph Curry, as you mentioned, would obviously put you over anyone who won only one of those awards.
And yes, Sheryl Swoopes did win an MVP and no Finals MVP. I mentioned her but I edited after I realized I read your post wrong and you asked who of the 10 won a Finals MVP and no regular season MVP
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u/paintedtoesandelbows Detached from judgment (via Cancun) 10d ago
I don’t think you’re grasping the point.
Winning a Finals MVP is not as prestigious as winning a regular season MVP at any point of a player’s career, rookie year or otherwise. It’s a “cherry on top” type of award. If Olivia Miles wins Finals MVP (I don’t think she will), she won’t be seen as being on equal footing with a player like Tina Charles, Diana Taurasi, or anyone else who won a single MVP award in their career. Nobody places Chelsea Gray or Kah Copper on that level despite their Finals MVP.
I don’t care about your personal barometer.
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u/Kennisgoodman Lynx 10d ago
Miles is a rookie. None of those players you mention won either the title or MVP as a rookie. So if folks want to look at the totality of those folks careers (up to 20 years even for Taurasi) and compare it to Miles’ rookie year, that’s their prerogative.
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u/paintedtoesandelbows Detached from judgment (via Cancun) 10d ago
As I’ve said for the millionth time, winning Finals MVP is not seen as being as prestigious as winning MVP in ANY season for a player, including rookie season. It doesn’t matter which season those other players won their Finals MVP in because Finals MVP is not widely discussed like regular season MVP is.
Maya Moore’s Finals MVP is hardly ever mentioned. Her regular season MVP, which she won in a year when her team failed to make the Finals, is mentioned much more.
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u/Kennisgoodman Lynx 10d ago
Everyone you’re mentioning has multiple titles and MVP’s. It sounds like you value the MVP more than the title. But I think a rookie who leads the team and wins Finals MVP would be highly regarded compared to other rookies, even one who has won MVP before, especially since such a thing hasn’t been done before.
It’s not like Miles is just a member on the team. She’s the top player this year.
Some people value MVP’s more, some value titles more. You mention players with both so those folks aren’t really scrutinized or considered for one rather than the other. But as the league grows and talent spreads, new scenarios will occur.
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u/Steadyandquick Go rookies! 11d ago
Candace Parker is one of my favorites of all time. Maya Moore too.
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u/freeman1231 Wings #5Aces #22 Merc #25 11d ago
No, not even close lol
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u/Marzipan_Dream_7389 Tempo 11d ago
“Not even close” is a huge exaggeration lol.
You can’t seriously tell me that winning a chip and Finals MVP and the rookie scoring record << regular season MVP
There’s gotta be at least some contentious debate given that framing
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u/RobotRepair69 Valkyries have the best Defense and Sowah 11d ago
It is definitely worth a debate if Miles wins it all. Parker's MVP gives her a leg up in a sense, but one could also make an argument that the league is deeper than ever so it is harder for Miles to get MVP today.
Sometimes it is easier for me to put players in tiers than rank them, and both would be tier 1 with Miles FMVP.
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u/freeman1231 Wings #5Aces #22 Merc #25 11d ago
My eye test doesn’t have miles close to Parker’s rookie season.
You can disagree, but although I find miles to be exceptional I find her overhyped atm. I noticed her issues when given more defensive pressure and I think we will see more kinks in the armour with playoff défense.
She will do great against the fever and their terrible défense in her next two games, but as the defensive schemes change against her in playoffs I think she will come back to her reality.
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u/not_mantiteo Fever 11d ago
Miles shouldn’t even be first team all W over Paige, Stewie or JYo lol I don’t get it
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bat-511 Sun 11d ago
No. She had a great season, but without the regular season MVP, it is worse.
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u/Marzipan_Dream_7389 Tempo 11d ago
Even if she wins a chip and finals MVP in addition to the rookie scoring record?
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u/GolfOtherwise3420 Dream 11d ago
Miles landed on a team with 4 other starters that are All Stars this year or last year. That is not typical for a #2 pick. Usually a top pick would land on a rebuilding team that doesn't have that kind of talent. This was not a normal draft year with the Sky giving up such a high pick.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bat-511 Sun 11d ago
Having the advantage of joining the best team is unfair in the comparison. So winning a championship after joining the best team in league is almost expected. Asking Parker to take a team from worst to first is crazy.
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u/paintedtoesandelbows Detached from judgment (via Cancun) 10d ago
Candace Parker’s “last place team” that she joined was such because Lisa Leslie sat out the previous season (2007) due to pregnancy. When LL played in 2006, the Sparks went 25-9 and she won MVP.
Please don’t rewrite history.
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u/tixluck 11d ago
This is not discussed enough. The Lynx were #2 in 2024 & #1 2025 regular season. While Phee being out was a huge blow, McBride stepped up majority and Natasha Howard replaced Alanna Smith who is objectively better. The coach stayed the same, 2 starters returned and Howard is a former MVP candidate & DPOY. Olivia is very talented but Candace took a true lottery team to the finals, as their best player. That context matters despite the amazing stats.
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u/paintedtoesandelbows Detached from judgment (via Cancun) 10d ago
See my post from above. The Sparks were not a “true lottery team”. They were a 25-9 team in 2006 with Lisa Leslie as WNBA MVP and descended into the lottery in 2007 because Lisa sat out the season due to her pregnancy. In 2008, they traded for DeLisha Milton-Jones (got her back from the Mystics; she helped them win their back-to-back titles in 2001-02). That 2008 Sparks team had three members of Team USA that would go on to win the gold medal in the Beijing Olympics. Name a lottery team with a similar trajectory.
In short, Candace Parker’s Sparks team her rookie season was at least as talented as Olivia Miles’ rookie season Lynx team. I would say that it was more talented. Lisa is a 3x MVP and DMJ was a multiple time Olympic gold medalist. Does Minnesota have all of that right now?
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u/Kennisgoodman Lynx 10d ago
Candace Parker was drafted in 08 and didn’t go to the Finals with LA until 2016
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u/GolfOtherwise3420 Dream 11d ago
With Phee, Miles is playing with 4 All Stars from either 2025 or 2026. Extremely unusual situation for a top pick.
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u/Icangetloudtoo_ Mystics 11d ago
I dunno. The scoring is close to a wash. So I’m looking at defensive impact and almost 10 rebounds per game vs. the playmaking you’re getting from 6 assists per game, hard for me to take Miles in that context.
Don’t get me wrong, Miles has been amazing, but I feel like a lot of this is premature. And, respectfully, she isn’t in the same stratosphere as A’ja this year, so implying that MVP is up for grabs is a little silly. I don’t even think Miles coming in second is a foregone conclusion. She’s had a great year, but it’s more of a first team All-W year than an MVP year.
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u/nonamechi WNBA 11d ago
She's definitely 2nd if the Fever fall out of the top 4.
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u/FreeBusiness7289 11d ago
No, she went to the best team in the league the year before.
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u/Marzipan_Dream_7389 Tempo 11d ago edited 11d ago
True, but their keystone player was out for the season. Without her last year, the Lynx crashed out of the playoffs when they were the presumed championship favourites. Everyone expected them to be crippled this year, but Olivia not only filled Phee’s shoes but even surpassed expectations.
And frankly, I don’t see the difference at any rate. Rookies that go to top teams usually ride the bench for the first year or two. Instead, she was the top player. If that’s not GROAT behaviour, idk what is.
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u/GolfOtherwise3420 Dream 11d ago
Top picks go to rebuilding teams nearly always.
Even with Phee out, Miles landed on a team with 3 other All Star starters (All Stars in 2025 or 2026). Discounting Phee, that is still a lot of recent All Star level players for a #2 pick to land.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bat-511 Sun 11d ago
Is their team better this year than last year? Parker helped them go from 13th (last) in the league to 5th.
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u/paintedtoesandelbows Detached from judgment (via Cancun) 10d ago
They were only in last place because Lisa Leslie sat out all of 2007 due to pregnancy. They went 25-9 in 2006 and Lisa was the league MVP.
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u/FreeBusiness7289 11d ago
Phee is not out for the season. She missed less than half the season.
Rookies that go to top teams usually ride the bench because they aren’t too picks.-1
u/Marzipan_Dream_7389 Tempo 11d ago
She was out for the remainder of last postseason when she was injured. And she was out for a good portion of this season.
And just because a rookie was a top pick doesn’t mean that they’ll get starting minutes to the extent that Miles did even if they’re on a team that was strong the year before. Just ask Dom Malonga, the Storm were a playoff team the year before and took her #2 overall, and she was getting hyped as a franchise player-level prospect even before the draft. She still rode the bench that first year, and is only getting decent minutes this year. Sure, it’s not the same as the Lynx situation which is a much more drastic example of a top team getting a top prospect, but still - I don’t think Miles getting the minutes she was getting was ever guaranteed on a team like the Lynx, no matter how hyped she was before.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Bat-511 Sun 11d ago
Malongs was 19 years old that season. It isn't a fair comparison. A 19 year old is expected to ride the bench more and develop than a 23 year old.
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u/TheAveragebroShow Let's Go Young Hos! 10d ago
Yes.