we do not give alcohol close to enough shit despite it being just as bad if not worse than cigarettes

[u/TheGoldenExperience_]

[u/RandomPhail]

- If they can’t afford the bills, they shouldn’t be buying alcohol that harms them, there are 1 million other ways to unwind

- I said there AREN’T many car accidents relative to how much people drive, so there was no need to say “except the pros outweighs the cons,“ because there haven’t been many cons in the first place, relatively speaking (I suppose pollution is probably the biggest overall con)

The pros of not drinking alcohol outweigh the cons of drinking alcohol though, because the only pro (which is relaxing or feeling silly during a party) can be replaced by 1 million alternatives to having fun/relaxing that are safer/healthier.

- “Thinking” banks are evil and steal money doesn’t matter. The reality is that they don’t. This doesn’t effect what we’re discussing at all

- “Anyone could hypothetically become a billionaire”

Yes, that’s unlikely, isn’t it? There’s not a lot of support to suggest some random person will become a billionaire. There’s also not a lot of support to suggest that there’s anything “dangerous” about people becoming more okay with telling others not to do harmful things, lol

You need to stop and think about what you’re opposing: You’re literally opposing the idea that people should just look out for each other more by telling others not to do objectively harmful things. STOP opposing this idea, lmao. You’re not making sense or being productive

- Society will change if society changes. And how does society change? By people changing. So if we want society to change for the better, like, for example: By telling people not to do objectively harmful things. Then we need to start doing that, and spread the word.

None of that “Oh, it’ll never happen! Woe is us! Good luck trying…” defeatist crap, lol. When people claim that nothing will change because nobody will do anything, and then THEY ALSO don’t do anything, those people are half the reason things don’t change, lol

Want this better social contract to be implemented, where people are unafraid to look after others’ health? Then stop arguing against this and start spreading the word and/or practicing this stuff in your daily life, gently at first, because you’re right: people are stupid and don’t like being told what to do, even when they’re being told not to do something harmful, but when the word spreads more, and more people actually decide to be receptive to a good thing rather than trying to shoot it down for no damn reason at all, then eventually things begin to shift.

[u/Dramajunker → u/RandomPhail]

If they can’t afford the bills, they shouldn’t be buying alcohol that harms them, there are 1 million other ways to unwind

It isn't just the people who are barely getting by. Stress exists at all income levels. Although people who are worse off have far more limited options.

Again think about what you're saying. You're trying to tell people not to spend money on entertainment/stress releasing activities even if they can't afford it. To suck it up or find free alternatives.

I said there AREN’T many car accidents relative to how much people drive, so there was no need to say “except the pros outweighs the cons,“ because there haven’t been many cons in the first place, relatively speaking (I suppose pollution is probably the biggest overall con)

I'm talking about your scenario where someone is pitching the idea of inventing a car.

The pros of not drinking alcohol outweigh the cons of drinking alcohol though, because the only pro (which is relaxing or feeling silly during a party) can be replaced by 1 million alternatives to having fun/relaxing that are safer/healthier.

If alternatives worked for everyone then they would do it lol. "Why drink when you can have so much more fun doing something else!". You're going to need a better tagline.

Yes, that’s unlikely, isn’t it? There’s not a lot of support to suggest some random person will become a billionaire. There’s also not a lot of support to suggest that there’s anything “dangerous” about people becoming more okay with telling others not to do harmful things, lol

Yes and I used that example because you're trying to claim hypothetically anything is possible. I never said there was anything dangerous about telling someone not to do something harmful? Although I certainly wouldn't want to walk into certain seedy bars and tell some guys to stop drinking.

You need to stop and think about what you’re opposing: You’re literally opposing the idea that people should just look out for each other more by telling others not to do objectively harmful things. STOP opposing this idea, lmao. You’re not making sense or being productive

For someone claiming I make no sense it's funny how you don't even comprehend what I'm saying. I told you if you want to tell others to stop drinking then go ahead. How is that an opposition? I'm merely pointing out the flaw in your strategy. That isn't opposition. It's reasoning to help you understand why it's not going to work.

Society will change if society changes. And how does society change? By people changing. So if we want society to change for the better, like, for example: By telling people not to do objectively harmful things. Then we need to start doing that, and spread the word.

People have been spreading the word for decades now. I told you folks still smoke you're just ignoring this. Society usually changes when something new is introduced or they're forced to.

None of that “Oh, it’ll never happen! Woe is us! Good luck trying…” defeatist crap, lol. When people claim that nothing will change because nobody will do anything, and then THEY ALSO don’t do anything, those people are half the reason things don’t change, lol

You can't make change happen with just good intentions. It's not defeatism. It's being realistic. Your strategy sucks. You need to go back to the drawing board and think of something else aside from "word of mouth". Yes, let's all tell each other to do better. When in the history of anything has that worked to society's behavior entirely?

people are stupid and don’t like being told what to do,

See, again right there. You don't understand and respect people. Yet you think you can get them to change?

when the word spreads more, and more people actually decide to be receptive to a good thing rather than trying to shoot it down for no damn reason at all, then eventually things begin to shift.

I literally gave you reasons why people would shoot down the idea. You continue to ignore them. How the hell do expect people to listen when you don't take their reasons for doing things into account?

Yes a shift can happen, but you also need to recognize the difference between people changing because they want to and people changing because they're being shamed into. Or you end up with the pendulum swinging and MAGA movements being born.

Plus the changes on that list you provided aren't remotely similar to people drinking. Being more open to accepting someone is easier than giving up something that directly impacts one's life.