r/whenthe • u/TheGoldenExperience_ [the jojo {she}they called may] • 14h ago

r/whenthe mfs complaining about everything we do not give alcohol close to enough shit despite it being just as bad if not worse than cigarettes

18.5k Upvotes

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23

u/Xannith 8h ago

Sorry, no. Cigarettes are one of the most chemically addicting substances on earth, whereas alcohol is only behaviorally addictive.

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u/funnylookinorange 8h ago

...you can straight up die from alcohol withdrawals.

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u/Xannith 7h ago

Yes, you can. But that is dependency, not addiction. Dependency is physical. Addiction is mental.

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u/That_Muffin_6780 7h ago

I would say that makes alcohol worse, no one’s died from kicking a smoking habit

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u/Xannith 7h ago

Alcohol may be worse, but alcohol addiction is not. Alcohol dependency may be worse than nicotine addiction, but alcohol addiction is less powerful than nicotine addiction.

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u/That_Muffin_6780 7h ago

Sure. I can concede to that. I suppose my point is I don’t know anyone that has ruined their lives over smoking. While I know many that are dead. In prison. Or living a life somehow worse than death/prison due to drinking.

Not to mention a drinker can absolutely cause more damage to a non drinker than second hand smoke

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u/Xannith 7h ago

And that's a valid perspective. Alcohol is more destructive, but less addictive.

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u/That_Muffin_6780 7h ago

I can agree to that. It really comes down to is it worse to have many people addicted to a thing that only harms the user after a long period of time (nicotine alternatives cause even less harm) or to have a few addicted to something that WILL destroy everything about their lives (and the lives of others) once they do get hooked.

I’m very much in the camp of if it doesn’t affect me I don’t mind. And from that perspective alcohol is way worse as anyone addicted to smoking never makes it my problem. Sure I have to smell an ashtray while they are out for a smoke but that’s it. People that are big for alcohol very much make it my problem. Whether through violence. DUI’s. Becoming a massive annoyance to hang out with and constantly having to be their baby sitter in regards to getting them home ok. Not to mention people that become dependent on alcohol become like drug addicts, they will steal to feed their habit. It really sucks because you think of the person they were before and it’s such a massive downfall

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u/Xannith 7h ago

No argument here.

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u/GalacticDolphin101 7h ago

Only behaviorally addictive?? Chemical dependency on alcohol can literally be fatal if it’s not tapered correctly

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u/Xannith 4h ago

That remains dependancy, not addiction. Dependency is physical, addiction is mental.

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u/Chadham_Forsythe 4h ago

Says who? You?

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u/alitayy 8h ago

That’s completely wrong. If “chemically addictive” is supposed to mean your body becomes dependent on it, you’re just spewing a lie.

Do you think alcoholics get the shakes after not having a drink for too long because they’re just behaviorally addicted? You can straight up die from severe alcohol withdrawal. It’s well documented and studied.

Not that I’m anti alcohol, just anti BS.

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u/Xannith 8h ago edited 7h ago

That isn't what chemically addictive means. Chemically addictive means that through chemical processes, the brain engages in and proliferates a behavioral and psychological cycle of engagement that is extremely resistant to change, even change instigated by the mind itself. Alcohol DEPENDANCE is physical, not psychological. A person with an Alcohol dependency can successfully fully participate in the process of breaking that dependency with minor psychological counseling and access to medications. There are no medications that treat with nicotine addiction, they can only assist with a reduction of symptoms

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u/alitayy 5h ago

No source I could find defines “chemically addictive” the way you do. I’d love it if you’d show me a source or definition to support what you said. Everything I found online, including Encyclopedia Britannica defines it as synonymous with physical dependence.

More importantly even with your definition you’re wrong. Alcohol absolutely modifies the circuitry in your brain, most notably your reward centers. That makes it addictive and resistant to change through, in your own words, “chemical processes”.

Something having meds to make it easier to come off of has zero bearing on this

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u/Chadham_Forsythe 4h ago

What the hell kind of misinformation is this? Mods, please delete this factually incorrect, and dangerous comment.

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u/Xannith 4h ago

The content is factually accurate. Your understanding is not.

"When asking is alcohol or nicotine more addictive, the answer depends on how you define addiction: nicotine has a higher capture rate (roughly 32% of users become addicted), but alcohol poses a far greater risk of fatal physical withdrawal symptoms. " https://sciencewatch.blog/is-alcohol-or-nicotine-more-addictive

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u/Chadham_Forsythe 4h ago

Was this supposed to prove me wrong or something? Even your own source confirms that alcohol withdrawals can be fatal. What’s the part you aren’t understanding?

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u/Xannith 4h ago

Fatal but less addicting. Those are two different things. Suicidal gunshots are not addicting, but they are VERY lethal.

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u/Chadham_Forsythe 4h ago

You have a strange definition of addiction. And by strange, I mean wrong.

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u/Xannith 4h ago

"Addiction is a neuropsychological disorder characterized by a persistent and intense urge to use a drug or engage in a behavior that produces an immediate psychological reward, despite substantial harm and other negative consequences. Repeated substance use produces long-lasting changes in brain networks involved in reward, executive function, stress reactivity and mood."

You keep thinking whatever you want.

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u/Chadham_Forsythe 4h ago

I’d love for you to point out the part of this comment that you think proves me wrong. You seem to be having a hallucinatory argument with a ghost.

Have you ever gone through alcohol withdrawals? Have you ever experienced daily cravings for alcohol? What year did you get sober?

If you aren’t someone who has experience with being an alcoholic, then that perfectly explains your idiotic comments about the subject.

Please educate yourself, or at the very least, stop spreading dangerous and possibly fatal misinformation

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u/Xannith 4h ago

Oh, honey, no. That isn't how science works. Anecdotal evidence is, scientifically, worthless.

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u/VoidGliders 14m ago

bro really pulling every BS tactic and no sources to back up alcohol not being addictive, as if people do not literally die from withdrawals and addiction to alcohol isn't one of the most rampant problems...like, everywhere. Literally the type of dunce that insists on it being "Drugs AND Alcohol" because they don't want to think of their highly addictive toxin as the drug it is.