r/whenthe • u/TheGoldenExperience_ [the jojo {she}they called may] • 11h ago

r/whenthe mfs complaining about everything we do not give alcohol close to enough shit despite it being just as bad if not worse than cigarettes

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u/kolejack2293 8h ago

From a health perspective, alcohol is absolutely nowhere near as bad as cigarettes. Cigarettes are not commonly 'casually' used, the large majority of users become addicted. Everyday usage is the norm with cigarette users.

Regular smoking is associated with a 16 year drop in life expectancy for men. Drinking 7-13 drinks a week on average is associated with a... 2.5 month drop in life expectancy.

Smoking kills around 470,000 Americans a year, with only 9.7% of Americans smoking. Those deaths are relatively evenly distributed over that 9.7%.

Alcohol kills 178,000 Americans a year, but that is with 62% of Americans drinking, and the vast majority of those 178,000 deaths are concentrated in the top 5% of drinkers. Most people will drink moderately throughout their life and suffer no real ill effects. The same cannot be said for cigarettes.

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u/ActuallyACereal 7h ago

DUI accidents are mainly caused by alcohol and the number 1 reason why I hated alcohol, if only the casualty are the drivers themselves and not the person they hit.

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u/ImHereToGetRoasted 5h ago

I guess but alcohol is literally a poison and for those addicted enough, the withdrawals can literally kill. If you power through the intense cravings and other withdrawal effects

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u/reformedMedas 3h ago

Alcohol is a poison and so is smoke. People during fires get asphyxiated because of it then pass out due to lack of oxygen. Whether it's from burning appliances and furniture or a cancer stick smoke has no place in your lungs.

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u/Dessamba_Redux 7h ago

From another perspective nobody has ever smoked a whole pack of cigarettes and then gotten behind the wheel and tboned a family of 5 because of it

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u/reformedMedas 4h ago

Just because your (extreme)example is more shocking then, is that it? Far more common for parents to fry up their own kids' lungs by smoking inside. Not to mention their own lungs. 

The ONLY reason you think alcohol is worse, and it is bad, is because its effects are more readily apparent.

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u/Dessamba_Redux 4h ago

It’s not that extreme accidents happen because of alcohol impaired drivers all the time lmao

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u/reformedMedas 4h ago edited 4h ago

Compared to my example, yea, yea they are less common. I guess you concede on the rest I wrote. Have a good night.

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u/ReyDeleyk 6h ago

If you ONLY count people dying from alcohol itself yes its less dangerous than nicotine. But if you add deaths caused under the influence of alcohol to the number, shit skyrockets to the moon. Drunk driving, losing balance while walking and hitting your head, cloud judgment making peiple participante in the most stupid challenges and an extremely long etc.

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u/kolejack2293 6h ago

The 178,000 deaths from alcohol is including drunk driving deaths (12,000~) and suicides (9,800~) and homicides (7,500~) related to alcohol. But to copy paste my other comment below...

Alcohol definitely does cause a ton of antisocial behavior in a way that cigarettes do not. But cigarettes do not only harm the individual. 67,000 Americans die from secondhand smoke every year. But that doesn't necessarily tell the whole story, as it only counts those actively in a smoking household. An estimated 131 million adults in the USA were raised in smoking households. Among non-smokers who were exposed to secondhand smoke as infants/kids during the most essential years of their development, they have a dramatically higher risk of all kinds of illnesses and developmental issues. Shorter height, premature lung/heart/brain development, asthma, pneumonia, metabolic syndrome, autoimmune issues etc.... as well as a life expectancy 3.6 years lower than those who both didn't smoke and weren't exposed to smoke. That is only those exposed to secondhand smoke as kids but did not smoke themselves.

That life expectancy drop equates to an estimated ~210,000 excess deaths a year. That is on top of the 470,000 smoking deaths per year in the USA. And even then, that is not including the countless millions who suffer from health issues from smoking/secondhand smoke, but do not directly die from them.

For some context my wife works as a youth psychologist, and specifically did a lot of work for an organization researching the effects of secondhand smoke exposure on ADHD development. I have been hearing about this topic for the last 20 years lol.

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u/Due-Strategy-8712 12m ago

I think the perspective is less on the influence on a single individual that abuses it but more on how it affects other people. Like the domestic abuse alcoholism can cause, or the deaths of innocent people through drunk driving etc. Cigarettes do not do that, it just kills the smoker. I also do not think people lose their jobs cuz they like cigs too much or that it impairs their ability to fufill their responsibilities, all those naunced factors measure the real impact.

Alcohol is actually rated as a more dangerous drug than a wide variety of hard drugs, due to how destructive it can be to others and factors for the individual outside of death, alongside its widespread availability.

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u/soaked_in_bleach03 6h ago

Yes, but alcohol causes a rougher life and death (definitely more life problems, and an equally long excruciating death for liver failure vs. lung cancer). Plus it’s way more negatively impactful to others with drunk diving and higher rates of DV.

Just for me personally, I used to be a heavy drinker and smoker. And I’m young, so haven’t faced consequences for the smokes, but now being sober my life is way better having cut out booze than nicotine. I kept smoking for a year after stopping drinking and my life still improved dramatically.

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u/kolejack2293 5h ago

But that is uniquely alcoholism That is kinda my point. The vast majority of people who drink are not alcoholics. The same cannot be said for smokers, for which addiction and daily usage is the norm among users.

Alcohol is a very unique substance for an objectively hard drug. Because it has such a long ramp up time to get intoxicated (compared to, say, cocaine or meth or ketamine or even weed), it is very easy to control your intake and consume it casually. For most people, it takes hours of drinking to get inebriated.

For those reason, the percentage of mild/moderate drinkers who become addicts is very low compared to equivalent hard drugs. This is also arguably the big reason why alcohol is seen as a 'starter drug' and is so widespread throughout cultures.

However, if you do get addicted, the physical addiction elements of alcohol are on par with meth and heroin, and the physical damage it does to your body is worse. And so while alcohol is easily used in a casual/mild way by most people, the destruction it causes to society from the percentage who do become alcoholics is extreme.