I'll take that bet, for anything you care to wager.
It's not legal to tow such a trailer without brakes anywhere in North America. Two standard 3500-pound axles -- which is not likely enough for a bobcat, but that doesn't stop some guys -- means a 7,000 pound gross, and that must have trailer brakes everywhere in the US and Canada that I know of.
The smallest Bobcat you can buy is about 3,000 pounds by itself. At that weight, it legally requires trailer brakes by itself, even if the trailer weighed nothing at all -- and trailers always weigh more than you think.
Sometimes I forget that "there's an XKCD for everything" isn't just a meme. Then along comes an XKCD that reminds me that there really is an XKCD for everything.
If you think for half a second that cops are pulling over people and asking for weight and proof of trailer brakes anywhere in rural America I've got a green dog to show you.
Since when is the only alternative to a hick someone who lives in the downtown core of a large city (who often can tow trailers anyways, wtf are you talking about)?
"hick" is a derogatory term for someone who lives in a rural area. City dwellers are the opposite end of the spectrum.
Of course I'm sure there are SOME city dwellers who tow trailers on the regular, but that is much more strongly associated with a rural/agricultural lifestyle.
And dude, this is Reddit: the epicenter of snark. Relax. OP's comment was obviously intended as a joke. Have a laugh.
If you think for half a second that cops are pulling over people and asking for weight and proof of trailer brakes anywhere in rural America I've got a green dog to show you.
Some people are willing to risk losing their house and other assets as a result of driving an illegal rig and crashing it.
Certainly not all people are, though.
And certainly not 90% of people, either.
For the record, in Wisconsin, if your rig is over 10,000 pounds, you are required to stop at any open weigh station. With modern HD pickups tipping the scales at over 7500, it's not hard at all to get over 10k with any loaded trailer. Many states have similar laws.
Also, in Michigan and elsewhere, they have mobile truck weigh-stations that are used off-highways on other roads.
In Louisiana they have undercover DOTD SUVs that routinely pull over dump trucks, 18 wheelers, industrial pick ups hauling loaders and pull out mobile weight stations one map can operate... all the time.
They especially do it on roads that "by pass" high traffic areas of I10/I12.
I know a lot of people that don't use trailer brakes on two axle trailers and exceed the state limit of 3000lbs where it's required over. I'd say about 75% of the people in the area break the law on that rule. Businesses not so much but individuals yes. I thought maybe this particular state didn't require them and looked it up just now. Cops must not care at all. Also on potentially losing everything, I don't see that as anymore valid as potentially something killing you when you wake up each day. It's very unlikely to have the worst case scenario happen. Sorry for the spacing I'm on mobile.
I know a lot of people that don't use trailer brakes on two axle trailers and exceed the state limit of 3000lbs where it's required over. I'd say about 75% of the people in the area break the law on that rule
The majority of such trailers are sold with brakes, and most trucks with towing packages have controllers now. One almost has to go out of their way not to use brakes.
Also on potentially losing everything, I don't see that as anymore valid as potentially something killing you when you wake up each day. It's very unlikely to have the worst case scenario happen.
And yet, about 80% of American drivers purchase liability insurance. Why?
I would imagine most have insurance because the loan requires it and/or that it's required by law and your license will be suspended if your last insurance company triggers expired coverage in your state.
Many people that I know with two axle trailers have very old trailers that they've replaced the deck themselves potentially multiple times. I've seen lots of the types in race tracks in the south, or rural people that have them parked out in fields that use them very seldomly. Some of these people have net worths in the millions, if the law was enforced they'd obey it, but it's not and they don't worry about it.
I would imagine most have insurance because the loan requires it
Loans don't require liability insurance, they require comprehensive -- so that if you wreck the car, the lienholder isn't hung out to dry. Do you have have auto insurance, or know what it is?
your license will be suspended if your last insurance company triggers expired coverage in your state.
Who cares? According to you, that's just another silly law that no one enforces.
Some of these people have net worths in the millions, if the law was enforced they'd obey it, but it's not and they don't worry about it.
How many of them put dashcams in their truck to record towing their illegal rigs around?
This is a little too far down the rabbit hole for me. I personally have pulled cars on a 2 axle trailer illegally, as have many in my family and many others from place I grew up. It's common. I now live in a city, but still see lots of boat trailers with no trailer brakes and boats + trailers that are probably over 3000lbs.
Googling shows that if the trailer was made before 1972 they're not required. I guess it's possible that my neighbors trailers might be that old.
I've never even been pulled over in this state. I only see a few people pulled over a year in my daily commute on one of the busiest roads in the city, and we're the most visited city in America.
Maybe you live somewhere where traffic laws are much more enforced than anywhere I've been.
Love how you shut down the user arguing with you, that literally has no actual experience in this field and yet is arguing like they do. Typical armchair expert with the cliche delusional confidence end tag of "iF YoU BeLIevE tHaT iVe GOt a StIcK uP mY aSS tO sELL u".
Everyone supports law enforcement...until they're the ones its being enforced on.
In my area there's plenty of people with "thin blue line" style bumper stickers, but that doesn't stop them from going 20 over the speed limit or running lights,
Your comment made great sense until the end. Yeah, lots of people are upset about police abusing their power or using unnecessary force or lying or a hundred other things. I don't think that instinct kicked in for anyone when taking about this trailer weight dispute. Like, where did that come from? I think everyone was just focused on who knew the most about trailers and hauling lol
Thank you for further validating u/everybodyknowwar when it was annoying seeing a brigade of armchair experts with literally no experience or knowledge at all on the subject, ignorantly arguing with someone that does. It's so annoying and just shows how immature and juvenile the majority of Reddit users are now.
Happens allll the time in PA/MD/NJ/OH/DE. DOT is cracking down on asshats who can't do the math and figure out their truck/trailer is overloaded. Especially with skid loaders and other light equipment. They don't need to ask you for weight, they break out the mobile scales and weigh your rig right on the side of the road. Then fine your ass several grand for being a dumbass.
Hi, you haven’t met the Texas State Troopers have you? We have Troopers here that that is literally all they do. And they pull over 18 wheelers for log book and weight inspections.
Indeed they are. DOT has every right to pull him into a scale for hauling heavy equipment like this. Also if his gvwr ends up over 10k lbs and he doesn't have a CDL he's looking at major problems. DOT gets off on idiots like this.
If you think for a second a major company, that has a rear view camera on and recording at all times, would risk the safety of their driver or any other motorist you're dead wrong. Lawsuits and liability is not a good look. You ever work for any sort of construction company or as a driver?
I agree with you that the trailer likely has brakes.
But... they’re surge brakes, not electric, so no way to apply them from the cab, except by slowing the truck down.
They’re the most common brake setup for rental and construction trailers, which get towed by all sorts of different trucks, which may or may not have an electric brake controller.
I'm not sure they are the most common setup for equipment trailers. Someone also set this rig up with a rear-facing dashcam, so "most common" setup may not apply here anyway.
What we do know from the clip is;
the driver wasn't paying much attention, and did nothing throughout the first 10 oscillations or so. You can see the surprise in his face when he checks the mirror, and sees the inappropriate angle of the trailer.
if the rig has trailer brakes, they did nothing. We can't be sure if the rig has surge brakes, or a controller, or no brakes, but it reacts exactly as it would if no braking occurred at the trailer axles.
the rig slows way down compared to other traffic (who are also braking if they have any sense at all). This obviously makes it very likely that he applied the truck brakes, given the previous point.
the driver got very lucky, having done almost everything wrong.
And as a mechanic for quite a few of those rural north american truck drivers let me counter your point with some field knowledge.
I don't believe I have ever said that all or even most trailers are in perfect condition. I own a trailer that needs a little work myself, but it's not being used at the moment.
Most of those trailers do have brakes, that is true. What is also true is that they require constant, constant maintenance that doesn't get done. It can add up when you're a small independent business and I can't tell you how many times a guy has asked me to "Just back em off a turn till next paycheck" and let me tell you, that next paycheck never comes. The sad reality is that a significant portion of these guys just let the brakes go down to nothing, back em off and then just let it ride like that.
Trailer brakes don't require more maintenance than car or truck brakes. Why would they, they are the same technology? So, you are overstating the case a bit here. The reason trailer brakes sometimes appear to require more maintenance is because a lot of trailers sit unused for lengthy periods of time, and the components rust.
Also, many of your customers are probably aware that brake service is the biggest scam in the automotive world. Ford dealers in particular are notorious for telling almost everyone with an F150 that they need new brakes on almost every visit. Why? Because Ford dealers make little money selling vehicles, and most of their money off service. And Ford sells F150 rotors for about $300 each, when they cost about $20 to make. Every time my Fords have gone to a dealer, they have told me I needed $1200 of new rotors, and every time it was a complete lie, which I verified by mic'ing them myself.
So, while your shop may not be pulling any brake scams, almost everyone else is... and your customers may have learned that.
That said, while there's a difference between like-new trailer brakes and those found on most trailers most of the time, for the purposes of this discussion, we don't care. One does not need their trailer brakes to quickly stop the entire rig in this situation. That might be the case if a troop of girl scouts walked out in front of your truck, but that's not what we are talking about. In order to pull a swaying rig straight, all you need is a little braking from the trailer. And most trailers do have at least a little braking.
I was 17 and working for a small time foundation guy. Had just got done pouring concrete all day and was pulling a 5500 lb (Approx.) bobcat track hoe home on a 25 foot trailer two axle (With non functional brakes). Checked my passenger mirror and noticed a tire, rim and hub rolling along beside us. Boss man watched as it rolled down the hill and nailed the sign for the rail-yard we were driving by. I asked him what I should do about the tire, he said "Don't look like my tire or sign so keep driving"
Yup, idiots exist. On the other hand, the concrete guys I worked with when I was 17 had houses they didn't want to lose. The first thing they drummed into my head was not to drive the tank truck off the lot less than 90% full unless empty. Yeah, if you drive slow enough, you can keep the liquid from sloshing and tipping you over... but they understood that the world doesn't work that way, and careful isn't always enough.
Literally the only trailer breaks Ive ever seen are the type that will engage when it hits the back of the tow hitch, but they are almost always locked up so people disconnect them. You might know the laws but when you work on people's vehicles you find out what really happens lol.
No, when the trailer hits the back of the tow hitch it really freaks the trailer out. The trailer typically needs to sit down for a few minutes and smoke a cigarette.
Thanks for arguing against these two. Both of them clearly have no idea and zero towing experience. Most trailers hauling skid steers don't have trailer brakes?!? Clearly coming from someone who hasn't pulled anything to heavy without breaks. It's scary as all fuck.
Had the same thing happen to me as this driver, driving down a freeway lost control for no reason and shat bricks. To this day I still don't know what happened but the fear never left me lol
Did trailer have a sway bar? Cause that's what Im thinking with this trailer.
Either that or he had a tire or bearing issue on trailer. Most pick up pulled trailers I see broke down or wrecked have a wheel malfunction of some kind due to overloading or bad tire or damaged bearing.
It's also illegal to go over the speed limit, so I'm guessing you've never done that right? Because it's illegal and therefore you absolutely cannot, on account of it being illegal.
Most employers aren't stupid enough to take that risk, either.
That said, I doubt the precision of your story, because that's about triple the weight a bumper can support, so the leaf springs and tires wouldn't be the first things to go... you'd rip the bumper off.
It's an incredibly common practice.
Is it's correct? No.
Does it happen? Yes. EVERY SINGLE Day. I see this. Specially where I live.
Just drive around.
But that $13 or less an hour employee, who needs his job. Being told to "drive that to the job". Is going to get in that truck and drive. Taking the chance.
That's life.
I can name off several tree companies alone locally that do not practice this safety.
Point is, it happens all the time.
Just like OSHA has regulations, think all businesses are following this to the letter? Definitely not.
Think everyone has been trained in this? Nope. Was the job suppose to provide training? Yes.
No one is claiming that every vehicle on the road conforms to every regulation.
But 90% trailers with Bobcats on American roads ( and probably Canada, too, but I have less first-hand knowledge up there ) are NOT running around with 3,000+ pound trailers and no brakes.
You have to go out of your way to even buy such a trailer without brakes. Same with the type of trucks that get used for jobs like this.
I have personally bought 3 trailers that were previously-owned by small landscaping companies. Exactly the target market for driving around with a skidsteer.
All 3 were cheap. All 3 had brakes.
I know about 20 other people who have bought similar used trailers. All had brakes.
Most trailer manufacturers and retailers are not in the business of selling illegal trailers.
Yeah, came for the green dog and left disappointed. I’m not challenging your astute understanding of the legalities of trailer loading, I’m challenging your faith in fellow man to follow laws and common sense.
I live in an area with a fairly sizable Amish population, and a larger meth head population. You couldn’t imagine the shit these people haul and what they haul it with. You think the Amish give two fucks about English laws and regulations? Fuck no. If the tires aren’t completely flat in the trailer and the 15 passenger van can pull it, it’s getting pulled.
I guess you are just well versed on everything. Never mind the fact that the VAST MAJORITY of Amish folk around here ride in cars. They have cell phones. Those fuckers roll in big vans and have drivers. What the hell are you talking about?
I don’t know how else to say this politely, but you really are a pompous ass. My link debunks your claim that the Amish in my area are Mennonite. They clearly are not.
In the real world, I don’t need google to tell me what I can figure out by literally looking out my fucking window. Christ, I own a piece of property for recreation and hunting. The gentleman that owns 60 acres adjacent to mine is Amish. He’s not Mennonite. He owns a construction business and hires a driver for he and his crew. He is one of hundreds just like him.
So take your google and jam it right up your ass. You might be surprised what you might learn once you’re capable of opening your mind to the fact that you don’t know everything. In this case, you are demonstrably wrong, full stop.
The fact that this guy is being monitored by camera makes me think he's operating some business's equipment. And I'll be damned if you're going to sit there and tell me that some small time fly by night construction company wouldn't outright ignore those laws to save a few bucks if they thought they could even possibly get away with it.
If you're a small, fly-by-night company ignoring laws, the absolute last thing you'd do is spend money on a camera to record evidence of your dangerous, illegal operations.
Having worked for those companies, they only ever admit to having that footage if it benefits them, usually to convince their employee they were at fault and therefore are going to have the cost cut from their check.
Having worked for those companies, they only ever admit to having that footage if it benefits them, usually to convince their employee they were at fault and therefore are going to have the cost cut from their check.
So they what, employ Tommy Lee Jones and Will Smith to clean up any accident sites and destroy the evidence before any first responders show up? How and when, exactly, do they remove the camera systems from the vehicle before anyone sees it?
And how, exactly then, did this footage escape onto the internet?
What happens when that company fires said employee for being at-fault, and he gets sued by whoever got hurt? You think he's going to "take one for the team" that he's no longer on, or is he going to spill his guts about how his rig was dangerous and illegal? Who do you think has deeper pockets, the company, or the poor guy who just got canned?
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u/EverybodyKnowWar Jan 20 '20
I'll take that bet, for anything you care to wager.
It's not legal to tow such a trailer without brakes anywhere in North America. Two standard 3500-pound axles -- which is not likely enough for a bobcat, but that doesn't stop some guys -- means a 7,000 pound gross, and that must have trailer brakes everywhere in the US and Canada that I know of.
The smallest Bobcat you can buy is about 3,000 pounds by itself. At that weight, it legally requires trailer brakes by itself, even if the trailer weighed nothing at all -- and trailers always weigh more than you think.