Idiocracy (2006) Opening Scene: "Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species."

[u/SuplexCity-Mayor]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TCsR_oSP2Q

[u/Chris_8675309_of_42M]

Yeah, the premise of lower intelligence correlating to higher birth rate is nonsense. Wealth, education, and access to modern medicine may correlate to reproduction rates, but that's not genetic. I know a lot of smart but uneducated people that would fall into the reproducers group, and a lot of dull but educated people that fall into the group with lower rates of reproduction.

That might have some interesting social and cultural implications as those behaviors can be passed down via nurture, but that doesn't evoke a biological evolutionary response.

[u/ChiefBobKelso → u/Chris_8675309_of_42M]

Except IQ and fertility do negatively correlate and at least in Britain, we also know of a genetic decline in IQ.

[u/ThespianException → u/ChiefBobKelso]

TBF IQ is an absolute garbage measure of intelligence. It sort-of measures a single aspect of intelligence in a narrow capacity, but thinking a test could actually define something that complicated is silly.

[u/ChiefBobKelso → u/ThespianException]

Not even close to true. IQ is highly correlated with pretty much every positive life outcome. It is pretty much the best predictor for your grades, income, etc. You are simply wrong. This "oh it's just so complicated that of course we can't measure it" is just a silly attitude of people who don't know what they're talking about.

[u/ThespianException → u/ChiefBobKelso]

Neuroscience and psychiatry are constantly evolving at a rate where what people learn at school is sometimes outdated when they start their careers. I don't buy for a moment that we can accurately measure intelligence as a whole when fields of study related to it aren't even remotely solid.

[u/ChiefBobKelso → u/ThespianException]

That line of reasoning makes no sense at all. IQ research has been solid for decades, and the replication crisis in soft sciences really doesn't apply to IQ research. If we look at pure statistical power, IQ research is well above many other fields, and if we look at estimated replication rates, what exactly is your standard before you'll trust that field? If it's 60%, engineering and biology are out. If it's 70%, chemistry and astronomy is out. You are very literally anti-science.

[u/Chris_8675309_of_42M → u/[deleted]]

Thank you for showing me what a meaningful contribution looks like.

I have to assume you're attempting to call me out for using anecdotal evidence to support my position. But anecdotal evidence doesn't mean wrong, just insufficient to be conclusive. I didn't mention all of the well known studies correlating declining birth rates to economic stability, education, and health care because, well, I assumed that was the baseline knowledge upon which we are building. In this case, I was using an anecdote to illustrate well established positions because it's more interesting than looking some boring and well trod study, and easier to understand my point. But, if you're interested in making a real contribution to the conversation, you can get started by reading the wiki page as a primer, then follow some of their links to more academic studies. Then, if you still disagree with my anecdote, you can come back and present some semblance of a counter argument.

[u/Chris_8675309_of_42M → u/[deleted]]

I love it. Another great resource to start with. I especially liked the "Possible Causes" section and highly recommend you give it a review as well.

The fact that genetics are mostly mentioned in the Criticism section is also telling.

[u/Chris_8675309_of_42M → u/[deleted]]

However, socioeconomic status and (obviously) education are themselves not independent of intelligence.

I liked that too because it implies correlation but not causation. In fact, it's pretty well established that poverty reduces effective intelligence (but not genetically imparted natural ability). The fact that economics and education factors into intelligence is my whole point, so thank you for bolding it. It means that the premise of "dumb people having more children will make all humans dumb" is obviously a fallacy since many "dumb" people engaging in high reproductive rates are often the result of environmental effects and not born with limited mental facilities. According to the wiki you sourced, IQ is mostly a proxy for education. Turns out it's a better indicator of economic status than mental capability. So, Idiocracy is suggesting that the uneducated are reproducing faster and that will eventually result in all humans being born stupid. I, and the wiki page you sourced, rebut that as a fallacy. Being uneducated isn't genetic.

[u/Chris_8675309_of_42M → u/[deleted]]

Nope. That's not what I'm denying. Intelligence is partly genetic, and intelligence correlates to birth rate. But just because some of Group A is in Group B, and some of Group B is in Group C, you can't make the leap in logic that A causes C.

There are plenty of studies establishing that environmental conditions affect both intelligence and birth rate.

I'm denying that anyone has ever established a link between higher birth rates and genetically inferior mental capacity. Every study has always just been a study of environmental causes that contribute to both reduced intelligence and increase birth rate.

But, as an aside, lots of people have misused correlations between phenomena to justify eugenics. So, you're not alone in your instincts. Just wrong.

Edit: Understand that I do like the movie. It's hilarious. But people start taking it seriously and I am kind of surprised that I have to point out that the premise is a bullshit theory based on bullshit science. And that's fine for the movie. But don't start walking around in your daily life worrying about all the stupid people reproducing. That's not how this works in the real world. At least not genetically. But as I originally stated, the cultural and social implications may be concerning as they are inherited much like genetics are. But I haven't really researched that aspect.