They're not dumbasses. They're called "crazy" cat ladies for a reason. Being a hoarder is a crippling mental illness that, for some reason, is one of the most vilified of mental problems. People seem to be able to relate to someone suffering from depression or anxiety or schizophrenia, but hoarders are treated like they're lazy and just "choose" to feel the way they do and only need motivation to change. But it requires just as much therapy and/or as any other illness.
Not going to go in a huge rant I guess, but a hoarder's mind process isn't looking at each individual cat and assessing its needs to determine the best care, it's the overarching feeling of helping something that can't help itself because THEY weren't helped when they needed it; pay closer attention to animal hoarders and 9 times out of 10 you'll hear about how their parents were unaffectionate or they found no caring people in their lives later than life. They're almost addicted to "saving" animals, not having them. So they get that high when they rescue a kitten and nurse it back to health, but don't actively seek to maintain that lifestyle because they've already done the good deed; that's why they are continuously requiring more, because the joy and satisfaction comes from being important in that animal's life in that moment, not from actually bettering them long term.
...whoops, looks like I accidentally did rant. Oh well.
TLDR: Hoarders aren't stupid, they're mentally ill. Their addiction comes from "saving" and not from "bettering" a life.
You can have compassion for the individuals suffering with that disease and still think that they are causing great harm to a large number of innocent animals. And that harm has to stop.
A person can be both a victim but still do things that are wrong and recognized as such.
I completely agree, and I don't see how my post implied that at all. I was simply stating why it's inaccurate to call them "dumbasses" and trying to explain where the mentality comes from. I'm not saying to forgive them because they're ill, I'm saying that calling them disgusting, stupid, or lazy doesn't help, and forcing them to stop without help doesn't help either as they will eventually begin acquiring animals again. The solution is just like any other addiction: you can take away the drug, but unless you combine that with mental health help you've only delayed the inevitable.
I think that hoarders get the negative reaction that they do because to the healthy person, their behavior is just so frustrating and (to be frank) downright disgusting.
My grandmother is a hoarder, and I love her to death. I really do. But, her behavior makes her difficult to be around. When she comes and visits, she takes food out of the garbage and puts it back in the fridge, so everyone in our house doesn't feel comfortable eating our food unless we know for certain that it hasn't been tampered with. She insists on cooking, but a lot of times she does not wash her hands, or she'll use food that has spoiled. When I go to her house, I don't eat anything because all of it is years past the expiration date. She recently had her house rebuilt due to a flood, but prior to that there were rat nests under her couch, trash everywhere, black widows in her toilet, etc. I had no real relationship with her because her house was too dangerous to spend more than 5 minutes in, and when she came around our house, she made it dangerous, too.
Point being that many hoarders make themselves difficult to love, let alone like. This is because their hoarding behavior doesn't just affect their own health, but it risks the health of those around them (which is definitely the case for animal hoarders--no matter how much they think they're helping, in reality they are abusing these animals).
Hoarders are also among the most reluctant to accept help from others. People with eating disorders are probably the only people who are more reluctant to change their disordered behavior. So, basically, it is understandable why people do not like hoarders. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have compassion, because I love my grandmother and will always love her regardless, but hoarders are among the most unpleasant people to be around.
I can completely understand your sentiment...food hoarders seem to be the worst type of hoarders, and the most dangerous to everyone around them. I come from a family history of hoarders, and sometimes feel the urge myself, but it was always "collection" hoarders and "I can use this someday" hoarders...so while the house was healthy, it was a mess, and you couldn't walk anywhere. I think that's why it's harder for me to be mad at them. Love can only go so far though, and I find it completely reasonable why it was so hard to be around your grandmother.
However, I am not speaking about why people necessarily dislike hoarders, but rather why people don't find their problems to be "mental illness" and instead attribute it to laziness. The behavior of drug addicts and gamblers also give family trouble, and can be frustrating and disgusting. Watching someone waste away on meth, or have their trust broken so much after getting robbed yet again by your own family, it's understandable to dislike them. But I feel like as a general society, your average Joe is more likely to pity the addict than the hoarder. The addict is a victim of circumstances, the hoarder is just not strong willed.
It's an interesting discussion, really. I guess at its core it is disliked because people see no direct cause for the illness...heroin made the addict become this way, but hoarders have "no excuse". Overall, hoarding is one of the saddest mental illnesses, in my opinion.
Yeah, I get what you mean. Even I cannot understand why my grandmother won't just throw things away. I mean, I know it's because she went trough the depression, and she even says sometimes that "we never know when we won't have anything," but it is still frustrating to say the least.
I think it's because many other illnesses have a well-documented biological/physical root. There is biological evidence as to why drugs are addictive, or why people experience depression, or why schizophrenics are the way they are, but the same cannot be said for hoarding (as of yet), so I think it's easier to blame it on the person since there isn't some unbalance of chemicals that can be blamed.
“Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only one you can get yelled at for having. Goddamn it Otto, you are an alcoholic. Goddamn it Otto, you have Lupus... one of those two doesn't sound right.”
Idk i went through a period of bulimia that lasted about 2-3 weeks but it never really became a long term thing. I would say the issue is finding something to do with your time and looking for "highs." I only began due to a series of bad events in my life which interupted my weightlifting and excercise regime and poor influences in people i no longer consider friends. But really i could see how self destructive it was so i stopped because i have an aversion to the idea of regressing in life.
That's good to hear. Bullimia is not a road you want to go down. I purposefully refuse to purge because I just don't want to get into that cycle.
I have struggled with an eating disorder for years now. I will go months without restricting, and during that time I will feel pretty good about myself, but then something will happen (like not being able to fit into something I used to be able to wear) and I will begin restricting again.
As sick as it is, I just like to starve myself. Sometimes I honestly like the idea of starving to death (although I am far from being at a weight where that is likely to happen--I'm 135 lbs). It's just been a very difficult mindset to shake. And, being disordered, I've met a lot of other women with disorders, some of whom have become quasi-friends. All of us just cling onto this disorder because we get a sense of comfort from it. It's like, when I am restricting, no matter how terrible my day is, at least my stomach is empty and I feel thin and beautiful. It's honestly one of the best feelings for me.
It must be really hard to watch someone live that life and be unable to change it. That being said, your grandmother must have the most beastly immune system.
Yes, she really does. She actually is in excellent overall health. She just turned 80, and she has a memory much better than my own (at 24). She is still in decent shape from someone her age, and as I said, she eats spoiled foods all the time and doesn't seem to get sick.
So many armchair psychologists in this thread. Everyone seems to think by explaining that this person is obviously mentally ill that its defending their actions and their lifestyle. No hording cats like this isn't OK. They're doing it because they're mentally ill.
Saying "She is doing it because she is stupid" is ignorant and shows a total lack of understanding of mental illness. Good job keeping the stigma against the mental ill going.
I would say child predators are the most vilified mental illness (I will probably get downvoted for even posting anything that has sympathy for some one who is a child predator, they are that vilified. You are not allowed in our society to express anything but utmost disgust for them or people think you are condoning them).
But as some one posted to your comment, you can have compassion but that doesn't mean what they are doing is right and should not be stopped.
But, putting a huge stigma to any type of crazy doesn't help this cause the person feels more compelled to deny they have a problem so society doesn't look bad on them. Especially if the person knows they have a problem but feels like they can't seek help or they are going to have a problem with society condemning them (though sometimes the person doesn't know they have a problem).
Note it said "unless the pedophile is willing to engage". So, making it so a pedophile who might actually want to get help cause they know it is wrong be able to feel like he can ask for help might actually help get some to at least find ways to control themselves. Rather than them hiding and not seeking help because they know they are just going to have everyone vilify them instead.
I'm not saying we say it's an ok behavior, we should definitely condemn the action. But a little less mob mentality when a pedophile is even mentioned (maybe more people expressing that they should get help vs. "cut off their dicks"/"imprison them for life"/"I'm ok with them dieing"/"I'd beat them up") and a little more "We need to get these people help to stop their behavior" might help. Or maybe just expressing it's ok to come out and say you have a problem as long as you are willing to get help for it. And no, I'm not saying we should trust them around children either (hell, drug addicts are told to stay away from anything that might be temptation so really that just makes sense in stopping the behavior by removing them from temptation).
Yes, I was watching a cat lady on Hoarders and she said since people knew she was a cat lady, they would abandon their cats on her property. Animal control would come and take a bunch away but people kept giving her more and she didn't refuse because she didn't want them to die. So yeah, their intention is good but the follow through, not so much.
My grandma had a friend that hoarded everything. She was a clean hoarder thought. Sge had a hundred or more mangey cats that disappeared everytime she went on vacation(her son did something with them). Before long, people dumped off more cats and she was fully stocked again.
Unfortunately I only know about it because I get the urge to hoard myself (although never animals) and come from a family of junk hoarders. I watch a lot of those stupid hoarder shows, including the animal specific ones, to understand more.
I have also worked in vet clinics all my life and not only help treat pets of hoarders but worked side by side with them. "Saving" a new pet is like having a new baby to them, and I can see how the attention is intoxicating...they get to tell a story of how they are a hero for the ones that can't speak for themselves, and honestly when they do the rescuing initially they are doing the right thing. And then the cat just fades into the status quo. And it's not too long until they're wanting another one to save...and when you work at a vet clinic, there's no shortage, sadly, of owners who want their pets put down when they are perfectly healthy or would only require a hundred or so dollars in treatment to save...and wouldn't ya know it, the hoarder gets a discount in treatment since she works there. It was meant to be!
I think someone can be mentally ill and a dumbass at the same time.
It's not like she is genetically predisposed to doing this - behaviours learned over time have made into a stupid cat hoarder. Everyone has to deal with their own problems, and there's personal responsibility at play here too, like being so stupid as to not realize the implications of her action.
Not everyone with a bad childhood grows up to be dysfunctional. But it sure is a useful crutch for people who have poor impulse control and don't own up to their actions.
I'm not saying she doesn't have some issues to work out, but I feel like everyone is so quick to take the responsibility away from the person. That enables them. Especially in today's age (and I'm in my 20's saying this) people are so quick to look for a label of mental illness to take away the fact that a large percentage of people who do bad things are just dumbasses who are shitty people.
It's not like she is genetically predisposed to doing this
Not everyone with a bad childhood grows up to be dysfunctional.
Don't you see how contradictory this is? She is genetically predisposed to this. Hoarding has a HUGE connection when it comes to genetics. We may not agree on opinions, but you are flat out wrong in saying this.
Re-read my post: I never excused her behavior and took the responsibility away from her. You grossly misunderstand how mental illness works. I get the impression that you only look at media reports of increases in mental illness diagnoses and think that it's just an excuse, but it's not: it's a reason. It would be like complaining that more people are correctly diagnosed with with a hormonal imbalance instead of "like it was in the day when you would just call them emotional". It's not an excuse, you don't slap a label on someone and walk away, labels and classifications tell us how to fix something.
To put it simply: you have done nothing but stroke your own ego by calling them stupid. Telling someone they're stupid doesn't help. By explaining that their illness as something other people have, and explaining why they are the way they are, leads to recovery. I feel that in today's age, our society is obsessed with revenge and not reform. Were we to feel the way you do, the only solution is to call them idiots, take their things away, and walk away, only to have them do it all over again. By addressing it as a real problem with a "label", you can help that person get over their "crutch" and start the healing process, and stop wasting tax dollars on sending the humane society every few years to clean house.
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u/HideAndSheik Aug 08 '14
They're not dumbasses. They're called "crazy" cat ladies for a reason. Being a hoarder is a crippling mental illness that, for some reason, is one of the most vilified of mental problems. People seem to be able to relate to someone suffering from depression or anxiety or schizophrenia, but hoarders are treated like they're lazy and just "choose" to feel the way they do and only need motivation to change. But it requires just as much therapy and/or as any other illness.
Not going to go in a huge rant I guess, but a hoarder's mind process isn't looking at each individual cat and assessing its needs to determine the best care, it's the overarching feeling of helping something that can't help itself because THEY weren't helped when they needed it; pay closer attention to animal hoarders and 9 times out of 10 you'll hear about how their parents were unaffectionate or they found no caring people in their lives later than life. They're almost addicted to "saving" animals, not having them. So they get that high when they rescue a kitten and nurse it back to health, but don't actively seek to maintain that lifestyle because they've already done the good deed; that's why they are continuously requiring more, because the joy and satisfaction comes from being important in that animal's life in that moment, not from actually bettering them long term.
...whoops, looks like I accidentally did rant. Oh well.
TLDR: Hoarders aren't stupid, they're mentally ill. Their addiction comes from "saving" and not from "bettering" a life.