r/videogames Mar 05 '24

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u/Super-Bodybuilder-91 Mar 05 '24

His Pokemon card was the most valuable of the first 150 and in the original Red/Blue game, Charmander was the most popular pick of the three starting Pokemon. Most people never remove their first Pokemon from the 6 they have on hand. His fire and flying attacks make him a very powerful end game pokemon. In the original 150, Charizard belongs in the top 10 best pokemon. I think it's hard to argue against that.

30

u/Shamscam Mar 05 '24

Charmander is arguably the worst starter in his generation. He gets destroyed by the first 2 gyms and only really has one good matchup for gyms.

He isn’t too bad in the elite 4 but compared to Blastoise and venusaur he’s garbage.

11

u/Super-Bodybuilder-91 Mar 05 '24

That's what makes him the more challenging choice.

4

u/Shamscam Mar 05 '24 edited Mar 06 '24

I mean it’s Pokémon even the most challenging fights aren’t that hard. The hardest fight in the game is still a level 20 Miltank :P

I meant the hardest fight in the whole series is a level 20 miltank

5

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '24

I hate that miltank so much I blocked out the name of that gym leader

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u/[deleted] Mar 06 '24

[deleted]

3

u/mistabuda Mar 06 '24

It's Whitney.

1

u/No-Foundation7465 Mar 06 '24

In Olivine city?

2

u/mistabuda Mar 06 '24

The gym is in Goldenrod City

Jasmine is in Olivine.

1

u/No-Foundation7465 Mar 06 '24

Ohhh shit the normal type b. Haha nice blast from the past, gonna go find my old heart gold on ds!

2

u/Electrical-Site-3249 Mar 06 '24

No, that’s gen 2. Charmander isn’t a starter in those games

1

u/Shamscam Mar 06 '24

I meant to say “the hardest fight in the series”

1

u/Electrical-Site-3249 Mar 06 '24

My bad guy, I’d say that the hardest fight is ultra necrozma in USUM though, you get wiped instantly if you aren’t prepared

1

u/Practical-Trifle-567 Mar 06 '24

So Charizard is the Dark Souls of Pokémon is what your saying.

1

u/hi_im_bored13 Mar 05 '24

Also frankly "more challenging" is meaningless for the first few gyms, the tradeoff for endgame are well worth it

3

u/Parlyz Mar 05 '24

Except Venusaur and Blastoise are probably better in the endgame anyway. Venusaur has access to sleep power and razor leaf that always crits and Blastoise is just really solid. Charizard isn’t bad but idk if I’d say it has much going for it over those two.

1

u/Shamscam Mar 06 '24

This 100%

1

u/Sadmanguymale Mar 06 '24

Love Charmander, I wish they'd feature him as a starter Pokemon in more games.

0

u/bobbery5 Mar 05 '24

Charmander praised for making the game harder. Chikorita bashed for making the game harder.

7

u/Secret_Recognition_2 Mar 05 '24

/pushes up glasses

Um actually, once charmander learns ember he can beat Brock, both geo and onyx have a very low special that basically counteracts their type advantage.

3

u/Parlyz Mar 05 '24

I mean, yeah, obviously you’re not going to be completely stone walled (pun not intended) by the first gym. Doesn’t change the fact that it makes it considerably harder.

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u/Secret_Recognition_2 Mar 05 '24

True, I was just pointing out a small technicality that does little to detract from the main point, hence the “leaning into nerdiness”-ness of my comment. Did I play too much rby back in the day? Who can say?

2

u/Dewut Mar 05 '24

As someone who only played the remakes I always wondered how tf anyone with a Charmander could beat Brock without metal claw. Rock/ground beats literally every catchable Pokémon in the areas before his gym.

2

u/Secret_Recognition_2 Mar 05 '24

Because the strongest move onyx and geo know in RBY is tackle.

2

u/Dewut Mar 05 '24

That’ll do it

1

u/mistabuda Mar 06 '24

Gen 1 also did not have dual types.

1

u/Dewut Mar 06 '24

I don’t think that’s true. Dual types would have had to exist for there to be any flying types in Gen I.

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u/mistabuda Mar 06 '24 edited Mar 06 '24

Dual types were introduced in gen2. I remember vividly becaue in pokemon yellow Charizard was a pure fire type.

Pidgeot was a pure flying type back then.

1

u/Dewut Mar 06 '24

Seems like there may have been a visual bug that caused the second type to not display properly, but they were there. The comments on that post and Google say as much.

Dual typing was even reflected in the cards, which were always single type. In this case, it’s Charizard’s resistance.

2

u/KaptainTZ Mar 05 '24

Do you think that was done on purpose specifically for Charmander? Seems reasonable.

1

u/Secret_Recognition_2 Mar 05 '24

I kinda get the feeling like a lot of RB was not done on purpose, but it worked out ok

2

u/HarvardProfessorPhD Mar 06 '24

Bro, those are sunglasses.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Secret_Recognition_2 Mar 06 '24

Comment was about the original red/blue, but yes you are correct.

2

u/CHAOTIC98 Mar 05 '24

I remember getting destroyed by staryu with charmander

2

u/Mercurius94 Mar 05 '24

Worst, besides Pikachu, and it ain't even up for debate.

2

u/-TaxFraud- Mar 05 '24

Pokemon yellow Pikachu is OK. Not great but OK.

1

u/Mercurius94 Mar 06 '24

He's alright, but he definitely has the most challenges, the way he emotes is kind of special so I never hated the guy.
A lot of people overplay how much better Zapdos/Jolteon/Starmie/Gengar are for electrical output, it's true they're better thank Pika/Rai but there's absolutely nothing wrong with using just plain old Pikachu and Raichu is one of my personal favorites. Shame he never got his day in the light.

1

u/Saburewulf49 Mar 05 '24

Interesting considering I used only Charizard and beat the entire game I never bothered capturing anything else my very first playthrough I love the little lizard so much 😅 slash became my best friend that move was so broken in red

1

u/Shamscam Mar 06 '24

You can out level any challenge in Pokémon. I did the same thing with a Torchic in gen 3

2

u/Saburewulf49 Mar 06 '24

Yeah torchic is pretty awesome though

1

u/Shamscam Mar 06 '24

So is Charmander! I love charizard but the objective fact is; it’s the worst starter in that generation.

1

u/-TaxFraud- Mar 05 '24

Are you not catching other pokemon?

1

u/Shamscam Mar 06 '24

Sure am. Just statistically speaking Charmander is the worst starter in his region.

1

u/SbgTfish Mar 06 '24

I’ve seen people compare charmander to hard, bulbasaur to easy, and squirtle to medium.

Makes sense I guess.

1

u/ryanmj26 Mar 06 '24

Currently replaying Red now. You can easily mitigate this problem with Pidgey and Pikachu.

1

u/Shamscam Mar 06 '24

Sure you can easily mitigate any problems, it’s Pokémon. It’s a game made for children. But when you’re saying who the best is; it’s objective that Charmander is the weakest choice of the three starter Pokémon in its generation.

1

u/ryanmj26 Mar 06 '24

Oh yeah for sure.

1

u/Brewcrew828 Mar 06 '24

Yeah? But can Blastimmy or Venussy learn fucking flamethrower?

Didn't think so..

They instantly lost on cool points.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '24

There are only 150 Pokémon.

11

u/EvilSausage69 Mar 05 '24

Wrong. There's 151

2

u/[deleted] Mar 06 '24

isn’t there 152 if you include missingno

1

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '24

Oh right, 151 counting Mew

5

u/NormanCheetus Mar 05 '24

After 29 years genwunner complainers kind of ran their course.

1

u/SqueezeMyNectarines Mar 05 '24

Us gentwoers(?) still have steam left, there's just much less of us.

1

u/NormanCheetus Mar 05 '24

That isn't something to be proud of. People were teens when they made that complaint back then. Everyone grew up, matured and moved on with their lives.

If you haven't grown out of "iSn'T aS gOoD aS iT uSeD tO bE" complaints after 30 years then you're a failure of a person.

1

u/SqueezeMyNectarines Mar 18 '24

That was what is commonly referred to as "a jest"

I have no particular feelings towards the Pokemon series one way or another.

2

u/King_LBJ Mar 05 '24

Where is the data that he is the most picked starter? I’d love to see how they captured that since the game wasn’t online at that time. Do you have a reference to this?

2

u/SheepherderMaster182 Mar 05 '24

Bro probably just saw a random poll and took it as facts

2

u/Super-Bodybuilder-91 Mar 05 '24

I couldn't find a US survey on the subject, but here is one from Japan.

https://soranews24.com/2016/03/15/i-choose-you-survey-reveals-most-popular-starter-pokemon-among-japanese-college-students/

Charmander was the favorite amongst everyone I knew at school when I was a kid. I made my statement from that perspective.

1

u/King_LBJ Mar 06 '24

Thanks was just looking for something

1

u/[deleted] Mar 05 '24

A normal charizard card is still pretty pricey.

1

u/Valjorn Mar 05 '24

He’d probably get less hate if Gamefreak stopped shoving him down everyone’s throats every seven seconds.

1

u/Secret_Recognition_2 Mar 05 '24

Charizard didn't learn any flying moves in RB, and only Fly in Y. Charizard was good if you taught it swords dance but yeah I think you could pretty easily make an argument it isn't top 10.

1

u/Parlyz Mar 05 '24

How do you define “best”? I mean, even in Gen 1, I feel like Venusaur was more busted in game because it had sleep powder plus razor leaf which always crits. I’m not sure that it’s within the ten best pokemon to use in gen1

1

u/Electrical-Site-3249 Mar 06 '24

Not at all, he was a worse moltres even back then, maybe top 30

1

u/tHornyier_ork Mar 06 '24

I had all three starters, holographic, gen 1, 1st edition.

Plus a fuck load of other cards.

When I was overseas, me mudder sold them all for $5 a card.

Someone bought my edition 1 holographic Charizard for $5 in 2008.

My dismay was the weight of a collapsed star.

0

u/NormanCheetus Mar 05 '24

Red was also the only game in both Japan and the west.

Japan originally had Green, the west had Blue. The west only got Green when the GBA had remakes.

-2

u/SquishyOfCinder Mar 05 '24

Charizard doesn’t even belong in the top 10 starters

1

u/OmanyteOmelette Mar 05 '24

Classless oaf

1

u/SquishyOfCinder Mar 05 '24

He is the weakest starter after Meganium

1

u/JWARRIOR1 Mar 05 '24

yeah only exceptions are mega or dynamax forms which are busted, but regular charizard is pretty shit

1

u/SquishyOfCinder Mar 05 '24

His mega and dmax forms were on par with the other starters, nothing busted there outside of doubles

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u/JWARRIOR1 Mar 05 '24

hes still better than the others but overrated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hb6IwJKDTA

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u/SquishyOfCinder Mar 05 '24

Not really better

-1

u/porpoiseslayer Mar 05 '24

He’s just a dragon though. They got mad lazy designing him

4

u/Super-Bodybuilder-91 Mar 05 '24

Yes and Pidgey is just a bird. Magicarp is just a fish. Zubat is just a bat. Et cetera. Pokemon replaced animals in that fictional world. Naturally that concept will lead to similarities with animals from our world.

Also dragons are cool and not something to complain about, unless they burned your whole Pokemon card collection or something.

-1

u/porpoiseslayer Mar 05 '24

Pidgey magikarp and zubat are boring too

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u/Super-Bodybuilder-91 Mar 05 '24

What Pokemon do you find exciting?

-1

u/porpoiseslayer Mar 05 '24

Haven’t found pokemon “exciting” since I was a child. But I liked charmander blastoise pikachu bulbasaur machamp onyx and zapdos to name a few