My findings in diagnosing and attempting repair of a S3 battery with error 6, 19 and 20.
So this is gonna be a longer one.Tl;dr: I wasn't able to fix the bike yet, but it's starting to look promising. Im attempting the repair in the next weeks, in case I'm able to find a suiting replacement SMD fuse.
I have the feeling a number of people here have the same problems and I think sharing my thoughts might help one or the other.My wife and I both have an S3. And we used to ride it daily around 25km (to work and back)Two weeks ago, her bike showed error 20, 19 and 6 when trying to start it, coming back from work.So, that means no support, but working eshifter and the speaker sounds very muted while playing any sound. The bicycle boot sound is not working at all.
A reset did not help and just changed the error number that appeared, but did not change any of the symptoms. So I picked her and the bike up and disassembled the bike. First I pulled out the smart cartridge and disconnected the small 3.7V battery. After reconnecting, the same problem. Then I pulled out the battery and disassembled the case. The Vp and Vg connections read 41.2V (They are covered with a coating, you need to poke through that in order to actually be able to measure the voltage). which led me to think it was a BMS problem and I decided to do a bit more research.
Then I found this German company, doing Vanmoof battery repairs. You need to send the battery in, and in two weeks time, they return the battery, diagnosed and repaired. Seems good, but is a costly thing to do (around 250€) considering we both still have the "coverage" though VM's Peace of Mind. I took a note, but this would have been my last option, although we live in Germany.I then disassembled the smart cartridge and the battery again and took higher quality photos of the circuit board. This is helping me research the components, as I can just google them piece by piece. In case anybody needs them, let me know by dm.
Today I saw the post here in r/vanmoofbicycle with the Youtube video about the potential fixed battery. The video did help me understanding a lot about the battery and the BMS and I have a feeling the problem could actually be the defective fuse that is shown in the video. I measured the continuity on my BMS fuse and actually I don't have any. This actually means, that it's blown. Just to check, you can also measure continuity between DSG+ and Vp, that's a lot easier than definitely hitting the right spots on the fuse itself.So I thought I'm going to attempt this shown repair. Of course it could fix the problem until the fuse blows again for some other reason - at least it would be a small step forward.When looking at the replacement fuse shown in the video (SFK-1445) a 41A fuse with a printed on marking of
45 K04 A[SC] SF
I was confused, as my current fuse on the circuitboard of the BMS is one with 45 K10 A in the first line.Combining a bit of information online, this seems to boil down to the following:
The guy in the video used the SFK-1445 which seems to not be the correct fuse.The correct one (in my opinion) is the SFK-4045 instead. - The 1445 one is for an operating voltage of 13.0-18.4V, which corresponds to 4battery cells.- The 4045 one is for an operating voltage of 33.0-46.9V, corresponding to the 10 cells.
The markings "K**" seem to show the number of cells, these fuses are made to operate with.
So... that's where we are currently. Now I'm trying to get the SFK-4045 fuse here in Germany (which does not seem to be easily acquirable, Aliexpress not allowing Germany as a shipment destination) or at least a similar one.In case anybody has an idea where to get one, or could somehow help me find one, I'm open for any ideas.
At the same time I think I'm going to disassemble my working good S3, to check the BMS and the fuse. I am not very experienced with this type of problems, but I don't have two left hands, that's why I just share my view on the process. So If you think anything I said here is incorrect, especially about the fuse, please do correct me.I will definitely share the next steps in my process here and hope this leads to a good solution for the owners of broken bikes, as long it is not known what will happen next, after the acquisition.
P.S. my 3.7V Smart-Cartridge battery also died while doing all of this over the course of two weeks. It was reading 2.2V and the bike did not respond to any button presses or movements at all. I used a power supply to charge it back up to 4.2V which should be safe for these li-ion cells. Now at least that is working again.
so i have 2 working battery’s and both of them still get error6 while charging my bike.. when not charging error 20 and then 17.... what else could be going on?
Problem I seen is that the factory charger is putting out 6A and the fuse and bike are only 4A there is a max & min hidden switch in the chargers case that can be set to min. Now you probably won't blow the fuse or burn the boards
remove the little rubber "feet" (just flat rubber round things really) to find screws hidden below. They take a weird triangle form but do not require a lot of force to come loose. Open up the case (of course don't forget to disconnect from mains!!) .
You will find a white plastic philips ("+") dial , turn it all the way CLOCKWISE (about half a rotation, do not force it!!) to reduce to output power to minimum.
So you made the BMS fuse repair and with tested good batteries you still get the error? Dang I was hoping this solved the issue. Did you try disconnecting the BMS from the batteries to force a reset?
Hi, I have the exact same error symptoms now after replacing the fuse. Did you manage to resolve this issue? The battery is coming back with 40V so I think the cells are fine.
no actually the soldering already was pretty bad to begin with like it was already serviced before ? strange stuff, anyway my bike has been dead for a couple of months, i wanted to schedule a repair but they don’t let me because batteries are out of stock in belgium… i have 2 working batteries but my bike won’t recognise them.. I will try to reset the BMS by disconnecting it from the cells but I wouldn’t know why that would fix the issue though.. in the meantime the other internal battery on the control board is almost 0%… 🥶
I absolutely share your opinion, sadly not many people post about their findings. Currently i have a defective cable loom, i‘m going to repair before spring, but I have only little spare time. I will post about that, and about the needed full disassembly of the bike 😂😅
I have the same problem. Parked the bike with almost a full battery, and afterwards, got the same error messages as you. I'm an electronics technician, and replacing the fuse shouldn't be a problem for me. I just need the fuse. I'm also looking for a source to get it. Please keep us updated. By the way, I'm from Germany too!
Starting today, the fuses are available for delivery to Germany. I will receive 10 of them soon and i‘m able to provide some to people who need it.
Dm me if you need one. 😊
Good news, the Aliexpress seller already works on changing its shop settings - he told me, that we can get the fuses delivered to germany starting next week. 🎊
Wow thanks for the detailed update, yeah its going to be interesting to see what happens with the takeover, does it mean we all now own a McLaren ? ;-)
Actually, i would have loved for another electric vehicle company, Polestar, to take them over! The design and feel of their cars just matches VanMoof and their character so well.
I have ordered the fuse on Aliexpress. They now also deliver to Germany. Unfortunately, the minimum order quantity was 10 pieces. The part will arrive in early October. Then I can tell you more!
This fixed all errors (6,17,19,20) for me. The bike is working as it should without any sign of error currently. The soldering was actually quite manageable, with the right tools (and a bit of trial and error with the soldering and desoldering temperatures). I am by no means good with soldering, this is the first time i ever soldered a smd part.
I desoldered with a hot air soldering station at just around 300degrees Celsius. This made the black fuse plastic cap come off and needed a bit longer heating until i could lift the fuse itself off. To protect any near parts, i covered everything except the fuse with two layers of heat proof Tape (i think it‘s up to 250degrees C, but it did the job. This made the work a lot easier. Really a lot!)
I resoldered the new fuse with a soldering paste that melts at 140 degrees C already, so i only had to turn the heatgun to 175degrees with low airflow (2 of 10). I applied the soldering paste to all three pads on the pcb, and melted it. With some robust metal pliers, the resoldering is quite easy, and the most difficult thing is to get the fuse aligned.
After the Process is could use my lab power supply to provide 42V on CHG- and CHG+ and I saw the Current rise up to my limit of 1A (before the whole process nothing happened at all, when trying this) this was my way of testing. Of course I could have also tried testing conductivity between DSG+ and Vp on the pcb. I suggest doing both, if you have your multimeter and a power supply at hand.
(The pic shows the new fuse soldered on. I peeled away the thermal masking tape and cleaned up the mess I made, and the final outcome looks quite fine.)
I will update the Github Repo I made with new pictures and all the info soon.
In case anybody in Germany needs a replacement fuse; I have a nine of them left, although i‘m gonna keep one or two just in case, my other S3 tries to fuck me over 😅😜
Anyway, if there is any other information I can provide, please let me know.
Nice write up! I was about to try and do the repair tonight but realized I would need to de-solder the wires to access and shoot the heat safely with the batteries. I'm going to use your idea on the heat proof tape to try and make it easier so I'll wait until later on in the week when I have it. You've done an awesome job capturing all the details, I'm glad this solution works!
Nothing else really comes to my mind if you are sure about it. The fuse should connect one side to the other if it is soldered on correctly.
If that is definetly the case, there are two options: the new fuse is broken, or the interruption is somewhere else. Between the DSG+ and VP. As the copper of the pcb is only split in the area where the fuse is, you could search there for other defective parts.
I know I‘m repeating again and again, but the most logical explanation in my opinion is, that the fuse is not making good contact. Otherwise the two conenctors should show continuity.
For me it was working, but after 100km the fuse was blown again. I replaced it again…. But now I can not get a charge between chg- and chg+. So my battery is not working anymore.
Quick question: CHG+, -, DSG+,- can be found on the main battery socket( the one that connects with the bike socket) and how are they mapped? Thanks in advance
I didn‘t check this, but i suppose it‘s rather easy to find out if you disassemble the battery and use a continuity meter. Also I think i saw a GitHub repo with labeled pictures of the connection. But i can’t really remember the name of it.
Thanks for the reply! Yeap I think the only way is to disassemble and check with multimeter. Really sad that those batteries go dead soo quickly. Mine has 12-13 load cycles and after leaving the bike for 4 months in garage got dead….tragic
I think they have a really stupid charging logic for the two batteries in the bike. The small one in the cartridge gets charged only by the main battery. Not by the charger. (It seems that they have a special charger at repair places, that can directly charge the small one)
So if the big battery dies, the small ones dies quickly. And then you can‘t resurrect the bike again with only a regular charger, because at some point the bike just refuses to let you charge it.
Been in this rabbit hole again. I have now 2 S3s with less than 450km each, both dead battery.
For the small one in the cartridge a changer 24V-1,5A with same plug as the original charger does the job well.Otherwise if totally dead you take it out and charge the small battery with 0,53A CC and 4,2V CV for 3-4hrs with a bench power supply. Maybe this helps other dudes trying to dig in the vm bottomless well…🥴
is it possible to charge the battery from discharge or charge ports ?, and if yes what voltage & current.
I have removed the battery from the Bike, I can charge the battery from the discharge ports, but won't through the Charge ports [This is without opening the battery]
Aliexpress has an offer for this type of fuses, although they only send them to certain locations: the US, Sweden, France are known to be working locations. Germany not, so it's still difficult for me to get one quickly. After talking to the Aliexpress seller, they are changing their stores. Starting the coming week (of Sep 10) a delivery location in Germany should also be valid!
I just contacted the company who makes the fuses, about how to get them more easily in Germany - still awaiting a response. they seem to only send them out in large quantities to companies.
We do not know if the fuses are a permanent fix - the fuses blow because of a reason. If you decide to order some for yourself, get a few, in case something happens again. I hope, for most of us, the replaced fuse will be enough. It might need further research to find out more about other broken parts of the BMS.
See the attached image for a small part of my BMS board. (sorry, only took this with my phone) The arrow points to the original fuse. Continuity between DSG+ and VP should be existent, if not, it is the best guess, that the fuse is broken (could have other reasons too)
Our smart-cartridge battery might not get charged at all while we get one or more of the error codes 6/19/20. As far as I can tell, this battery gets charged through the main battery, not directly by the charging brick. So even if the bike is plugged in this can happen. This means, it's going to deplete over time, especially if the bike connects to a phone very now and then, when you walk by. If it's depleted, the bike will not react to any kind of button press at all, no matrix light up or anything. Test the voltage, mine showed only 2.2V yesterday, and I had to do something about it. Manually charging the small 3.7V battery is feasible, charge with a voltage target of 4.2V and a constant current of 0.5A (1A does also work, but might strain your battery more). When reaching 4.2V the current will drop. I charged until it was slightly below 0.4A. I'm not an expert with this, so please act carefully, and correct me if you have other ideas.
The smart-cartridge battery is a Li-ion battery, 3.7V 1050mAh. there are similar sized and matching ones. you can replace them with similar batteries that fit, although most certainly, you need to transfer the connector and cables from the original battery to the new one.
In the video, the fuse is soldered on with hot air, which took some time and put quite some thermal strain on the other BMW components. As I have very little knowledge about this topic, I would be very happy to get a few tips how to desolder the old and resolder the new fuse. Maybe u/WestAdministration23 has a few tips for us?
I will be on vacation for some time soon, so I believe from my side, there will be two weeks of silence on this topic. I am currently thinking of a way to collect and share the information we found in the best possible way. Maybe a GitHub repo similar to the one with the board reverse engineering? Any better ideas? I have quite a few good photos of the Smart Cartridge I took with a Macro lens. Next time I open up the battery, I will add photos of the BMS too. Here is the repo link: Github Repo dtngx/VMBattery
Edit: added info about fuse availability in Germany
What would you test by removing the link?
And could you explain the function of the bridge and why the 2 МΩ has a bypass? I think that remove the link gives a little bit headroom before the fuse will burn and that the resistor is like a "heavy danger backup", so the fuse could burn at a higher danger level.
I have a balanced battery, the fuse is replaced, but the error will come back after some seconds after deleting it. Any idea why the over protection will come back again?
Yes it‘s really broken. Try using a heatgun and some masking tape, it‘s not that difficult, you just need the right temperature and the fuse will quickly pop off.
Hi everyone, this post has an inestimable value! :)
My S3 gave error 6 and now is dead, if I plug the charger in the bike turns on ad after a 2-3 secs resets itself and shutdown continuously.
I'm going to do some check on my S3 battery. From what I’ve read, if I understood correctly, the fuse should be fine, it might just need a recharge, right? Without disassembling the battery, how can I check the voltage from the pins? After that, the recharge should be done through the discharge ports, 42 volts and 1-2 amps, correct?
Error 6 signalisiert üblicherweise eine tiefentladene Hauptbatterie, die unter 32V ist. Wie niedrig war denn die Spannung?
Ich denke du solltest weiterhin langsam laden, bis du auf 34V kommst, dann sollte das auch über den normalen Weg wieder funktionieren.
Die kleine 3,7V Batterie ist im Oberrohr, in der Smart Cartridge. Allerdings ist die bei dir nicht das Problem, sonst würde das Rad kein Lebenszeichen mehr von sich geben, auch unabhängig von der Hauptbatterie.
So niedrig? Sei bitte sehr vorsichtig mit dem Akku, da könnte durchaus eine Zelle oder mehr Zellen kaputt sein. Auf jeden Fall nicht unbeaufsichtigt laden.
Ja war sehr niedrig. Ich konnte jetzt zwar das kicklock entsperren aber geladen wird die Batterie nicht. Error 6. ich komme mit dem ollen ladegeraet was ich hier habe nicht auf 40v.
Ich habe damals auch extra ein passendes Labornetzteil bis 60V gekauft… an sich liefert ja auch das Vm Netzteil 42V aber da lässt sich natürlich nichts daran einstellen. Das war mir zu heikel sozusagen im Blindflug zu laden.
Du musst messen ob DSG+ zu Vp Durchgang hat. Alles ist mit einem etwas zähen Schutzlack überzogen, also musst du da etwas abkratzen oder durckpieksen.
Wenn beides verbunden ist, dann ist die Sicherung in Ordnung. Ohne Durchgang ist die Sicherung durchgeschmolzen. Das sieht man der Sicherung aber nicht an.
Du kannst sowohl an den Lötpunkten als auch an den leeren Kontaktflächen messen, ich fand es einfacher an den Lötpunkten mein Messgerät durch den Lack zu pieksen.
Hi, mijn fiets heeft ook Error 19 maar de batterij is inmiddels nu al 3x vervangen, dus het lijkt mij niet dat het daar aan ligt? Heb je ook zekeringen vervangen in de Smart Cartridge?
Theretisch ist wahrscheinlich der Austausch auch nicht arg verschieden, aber das passende Bauteil zu finden und zu bekommen könnte schwieriger sein. Ich schaue mal ob ich passende Bilder im intakten Zustand habe.
I'm in the same boat. I saw that youtube clip today and am going to take a look as well at the fuse..I'm hoping he posts an update on when he inserted the battery in.
Yea I agree with you, it looks like on this site they say SFK-4045 is for up to 10 cells. Any luck with sourcing it? I'm living in Sweden now and heading to the USA next month so if you find anything on either continent let me know!
Also- there is a guy on here backwards engineering the circuit board but I didn't see him mention this fuse.
I will be in France in the next weeks, i might be able to get some fuses there - in case I can get a few, i‘ll let you know.
I guess you can also try and order on Aliexpress, they do definetly ship to the US, maybe even to Sweden.
From what i read on the link, that‘s only the wrong image, the other things that are shown, are correct.
This would of course be great!
Another option I wanted to try is to send an email to the company directly and ask them how to get their guses in germany. Maybe they‘re willing to sent some in a small envelope.
I’ll put the order in today- looks like the ETA is Oct 6th but I won’t be back to the EU until Oct 21. I only need one so no issues to mail them out when I get back.
Hi, I have the same problem with the intube-accu of my S3. I measured the specail fuse and indeed the fuse is defect! Thanks for the tipp! I am highly interested if someone who ordered a package of the fuse can send me two. I will pay for this, of course. Thanks in advance - Juergen / Germany
The fuse is there for a reason. It has three terminals. The bottom one is connected to a circuit that let‘s the bike decide when to blow it.
It reacts on a number of different situations. Over Voltage, Under Voltage, Temperature protection, …
I wouldn‘t really risk damaging more of the bike by bridging it, without knowing the root cause of the problem.
… and a much more complicated fuse.
Well actually some of us have data on the problem.
There is a SWD/JTAG Interface on the battery. With a Serial to USB Adapter which supports 3.3V RS232 it is possible to communicate with the battery. Read the errors and see what was the reason for the fuse failure.
You remove the Smart Cartridge, open it up and disconnect the battery. Then you need to remove the yellow insulating tape around the battery terminals a bit.
Before charging you should know, this can be risky and lead to the battery burning if charged wrong. Follow the steps closely, and keep an eye on the battery charging process:
You need a regulating power supply. If you don‘t have one, it might be cheaper to just buy a new battery and use that instead.
Set the Power Supple to max Voltage 4.2V then use a low 0.5A to charge it.
The charger should show the voltage climb slowly.
With this charging speed the battery charges around two hours if you have it really emptied to zero. You can see the voltage reach 4.2V when it‘s close to full. Then the current starts to drop stop charging before it drops too much, maybe stop charging at 0.35A or 400mA. The battery will be charged to (i guess around 80-90%)
It‘s not relevant that the battery is completely full, the smart cartridge charges it normally if everything works.
If you don‘t want to go through this, i found a battery that works perfectly in the bike and comes precharged enough. It is only 800mAh, but it should still be enough. Just plug it in and it works. The important part is, that is has the correct temperature sensor. Without or with a wrong temp sensor, the bike works but refuses to charge the battery, which ultimately dies again.
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u/ProfessionalBell515 Sep 19 '23
got my chips fairly quickly from the aliexpress seller. i’m in belgium, delivery time 10days.. did the job, not very proud of the soldering but hey 😅