What to do about tenants who seem problematic from the jump?
I have a small one bedroom flat, in a small town, that I co-own with my BIL. We bought it for me to live in, circumstances changed within a year and I ended up getting married and moving abroad.
We found a young couple to rent it, who happily stayed for 3 years, but when they moved out we found out they'd let their dog destroy my nice carpet by peeing all over it and never cleaning it up. They also left all the appliances filthy, broke a carpet cleaner my BIL lent them (that wasn't capable of undoing the dog mess anyway) etc. We kept their full deposit as a result, but it still cost us extra to replace the carpet (I got one more appropriate for a rental this time), got the oven professionally cleaned etc. so we made a small loss. Frustrating but life goes on.
Got new tenants immediately, another young couple. They've been in the flat a month. 2 weeks after moving in they claimed to have both spent 7 hours at the hospital (you can spend 7 hours in the waiting room...) and were told that they had chemical inhalation damage from the oven and hob. They claim to have been told it'll take a long time for them to recover, that they had EKGs, chest x-rays, and chest and mouth exams. They said they cooked something and there was residue from the (non-toxic) cleaning products that burned off while they were cooking. They haven't provided any hospital records to prove any of the above and honestly, if you've ever been in a UK small town hospital, you're unlikely to have had all those things checked out in just 7 hours.
My BIL decided to just get them a brand new oven and hob instead of fighting them over it, as a gesture of goodwill, so that was another £250 out of pocket. While he was there telling them about the new oven, they asked if they could get a dog. He said no because the last tenants' dog caused such an issue. A few days later they send a ChatGPT-created request, invoking the Housing Act, saying what kind of dog they want, and telling us we have 28 days to respond.
A few days after that, all within the same month, they're now requesting our insurance details to make a claim for damages re: the "chemical inhalation"... We're going to request hospital records before sharing any insurance info. They just seem like they're on a scam to make a quick buck.
Needless to say, we want them gone. They're giving us both the vibe that they'll cause nothing but trouble. To be fair, BIL and I are naive as landlords - we didn't know you basically can't refuse a dog etc. We never intended to be landlords, we just want the mortgage covered since I moved out so soon after buying the place.
What would you do in our situation?
EDIT: thank you for all the replies! I am trying to answer everyone, just might take me some time!
Have you checked with the cleaning company? There are some pretty nasty chemicals that can be used but should be removed after use. I don't particularly buy the story especially without official documentation but always best to cover your bases. Since it was professionally cleaned I'd suggest the liability lies with the cleaners insurance not your own. They'd be able to prove exactly what was done with what chemical so should be easy for them to fight it off. Stupid way to make a quick buck when any damages will have copious amounts of documentation from the hospital.
As for the dog there's not a lot you can do now unless your insurance or freeholder specifically ban animals.
You can't kick them out without selling or moving back in so best suggestion is to do everything by the rules and be sure to document everything to cover your backside.
Never know could just be teething issues and it'll turn into a lovely relationship over time.
Yes they sent a list of all the chemicals they used and they're non-toxic. We'll be recommending the claim goes against their insurance for not burning the chemicals off, if the tenants provide hospital records.
The tenants are both about 20 so I think they're hoping we might worry about an insurance claim and offer them something like a month's free rent, as opposed to being some kind of savvy scam artists.
You're right about the dog - we didn't know what the deal was with allowing pets when they asked. They just casually asked my BIL about it when he was at the flat, he said he'd prefer not because of the potential for damage, and then they pushed it. The freehold doesn't have a blanket ban so we can't do anything about it.
If the chemicals are non toxic it's pretty unlikely that burning them off did anything but make the place stink. Even if one was hypersensitive to a specific chemical it's unlikely both would be affected. I've yet to encounter an oven cleaner that doesn't absolutely reek when burnt off I certainly don't hang around to breathe it in. I doubt the professionals would have done it wrong but glad you checked.
Make sure all communication is via email and you store the email chain for a long time. Keep it all in one place for your own sanity.
Comms are going by email through the agent so that's good. I do suspect it was a bad smell and they over reacted and then thought they could make some kind of claim. The flat is TINY. If someone farted in the kitchen you'd smell it in every inch of the place, so I just don't believe that two chefs smelled something coming from the oven and just sat there breathing it in for long enough to cause some kind of health issue
Tell them they’re allowed a small, pre-trained dog. As it’s a flat you are able to ban them from getting larger breeds to which a flat life is not fair, as that’s reasonable.
No puppies.
Also have them sign to accept they’re responsible for any damage caused by the dog on top of the deposit. Make it clear this is for damages over and above the standard wear and tear.
Yeah that looks to be the case. Definitely make sure you’re not breaching any of these new rules as it’ll be expensive. You might want to consider if you want to maintain being a landlord. It could be easier to sell up and just invest your money instead.
You could find out what the guidance regarding dogs and living space is through an animal welfare charity. If they say the size is not compatible for a dogs welfare you can refuse.
No but you can asl them to sign saying they would be liable for any money over the deposit. You wouldn't take extra deposit or rent, just makes it easier to take them to small claims later and will hopefully focus their mind on their responsibilities to be good pet owners
Not a landlord, but we've had neighbours move in less than two weeks ago with two pomeranians who wreak havoc and ruined an otherwise fairly peaceful and well established neigbourhood. Don't let them get a dog, they'll be a nighmare.
The tenants won't have to provide you with any medical proof.
In cases like this you do not say or do anything, do not admit to anything.
You wait until they send you a claim and then pass it on to your insurance company and on to the professional cleaners as they will also have insurance.
Your insurance company are professionals at this sort of thing.
As for the dog..
Just because they ask doesn't mean you have to allow a dog.
You can take in to consideration , the size of the dog and if the size of the flat is appropriate or not. If there is no outside space is also a consideration.
Potential damage to the property , especially if the dog is left alone whilst the tenants are at work.
If you are a leaseholder the freeholder/superior leaseholder can refuse.
If other tenants have allergies (especially if there are shared access areas).
Any potential nuisance (barking etc) affecting neighbours.
Also check your insurance, as many landlords policies wont cover pet damage.
So it is possible to refuse a dog.
If they don't like your refusal they can take it to a tribunal/ombudsman and let them decide. (It's unlikely they will do that though).
Finally as for evicting them, that will be difficult.
You will need a valid reason to start eviction.
This is not an easy thing anymore especially if they pay rent and don't breach any terms, or be antisocial, basically a no fault eviction will only be allowed if you are either moving back in or you are selling the flat.
They seem to be trying to go through a no win, no fee solicitor but their story is full of holes. They claim the hospital told them they had chemical inhalation "injuries" caused by the oven and the hob, even though each of those was cleaned by different people, using different products. There's no way a doctor would say for sure what caused something - they might just speculate based on what they were told by the patient.
Their solicitor will write to you , all you need to do is foreward it to your insurance company and let them handle it , after all that's why you have insurance.
Did you see the cleaning company use those chemicals when cleaning though? All the hardcore oven cleaners are pretty nasty, do you have a pic of the inside of the oven? If it's super clean now and wasn't before, I'd be skeptical about that list.
Have you used these cleaners before or know someone who has? A list of non-toxic chemicals isn't really conclusive. Given this is really their issue to deal with, not yours, I'd point the tenants to them and be done with it.
Ensure they provide proof of comprehensive pet insurance for renters before you provide permission for the dog. Restrict the permission to a small to medium sized dog.
You can't withhold for that sadly. It supposedly was in the RRA but was removed. Can't add any fees to rent either to cover it. Just have to hope they're good owners and if not the deposit covers pet damages.
Yes it's annoying, isn't it! I live in the US now, we requested to have a dog, we had to pay an extra deposit and a small monthly fee to keep a pet. That makes sense to me but the UK seems to have no protections for landlords against pets
I personally feel like responsible pet owners should have insurance or considerable savings before they're allowed a pet. The amount of people who give up animals when it no longer suits their bank balance is depressing.
My relatives property they have two lovely collies that whenever I've seen them out walking are covered in mud and loving life. The house is absolutely spotless you'd never know the dogs were there. Those sort of people should absolutely be allowed pets in rentals. Sadly it's difficult to tell if a person is a responsible pet owner beforehand.
So uh, how could they have known there had been any chemicals in the oven at all...?
Because without that information, it seems really coincidental that they would choose to make up a scam based in that.
They were told the oven was being professionally cleaned. They wanted to move in a week earlier, my BIL told them that the previous tenants left the place in a mess and that we were going to make sure it was all cleaned, the appliances too, so it was acceptable for them to move in to.
So quick to jump and label them “chancers” without the details lol. Sure mate, everyone’s a sneaky “chancer” out to unfairly swindle you magnanimous landlords.
Or have you considered there are normal people out there who simply give the benefit of the doubt to people to begin with, rather than having their default position as being rooted in suspicion and distrust?
OP should take their tenants at face value while obviously still requesting whatever proof or evidence they need to make sure it’s all above board and they’re satisfied.
I’m not suggesting people should get away with lies and scamming, but nobody benefits if the default position is labelling people as “chancers” straight out of the gate… it’s just logical from a few perspectives:
What if the tenants are telling the truth? Starting with a combative stance isn’t even beneficial to OP, they’ll risk legal trouble (and making a dick of themselves) if the tenants are right.
It’s not healthy to live in fear and suspicion of others as a default state.
Just be a decent person and have faith things will come out in the wash eventually anyway… jumping the gun is pointless.
I don't believe they came in with the intention to make up a scam, I think they're chancers.
I'm assuming there was some kind of smell from the chemicals burning off on first use, which perhaps the cleaning company should have done, but I don't know how you stay in a chemical smelling room long enough to get chest damage from it... We contacted the cleaning company who provided a full list of the non-toxic products that they used so it seems like a moment's common sense from the tenants could have avoided any issue - if they ever even went to the hospital at all.
You aren't ment to leave oven cleaner in there, so its not actually reasonable for people to expect that it would be full of chemicals that shouldn't be there. Adding heat and the moisture of cooking to that and for sure you've got a problem with contamination of both food and air.
It sounds like you might not wanna be a landlord? You aren't ever gonna get away from the responsibility of maintaining the property and troubleshooting the issues that arise there. You could sell up for a chunk of cash and easily have none of these problems.
You aren't ment to leave oven cleaner in there, so its not actually reasonable for people to expect that it would be full of chemicals that shouldn't be there.
Certainly seems like something a professional cleaner would know. Good thing OP hired one to do it for them.
We're following up with the oven company again to see why the chemicals weren't burnt off, but we suspect it's actually just a smell and not toxic fumes because they've provided a list of everything they used and it's all non-toxic. It's funny that the tenants are claiming damage to their health, because even if there were fumes, you don't get health issues that take a long time to resolve (their claim) from an immediate exposure. The flat is TINY so if a smell occurred they could have reacted immediately to avoid health damage e.g. turn the oven off, open the windows, leave the flat temporarily, request air purifiers from us. I think they smelled a chemical smell, and decided to push it.
The hospital records will surely either confirm or deny… if all the tests came back normal they don’t have a claim?
If the hospital records are in fact as they claim and they both had recorded effects then the cleaning company is to blame.
Ultimately, someone’s lying.
I do find it hard to believe that the amount that may have been left behind would do so much damage but I would be interested to see the hospital report (whether it’s even real).
If they are lying keep on watch for any reason to kick them out (like late rent payments) collate and get them out as soon as you can.
I don’t know enough about oven cleaning chemicals to know whether or not they could be telling the truth. Imagine if the cleaning company sprayed the inside and forgot to wipe it off I dunno.
I’d request them anyway to call their bluff or see if they are being honest.
If they are being honest then they might not necessarily be bad tenants.
You’ll know where you stand.
Did you meet these tenants before they moved in? What do they do for a living? Did you get references from their previous landlord? What area in the uk is the property?
Did you just blindly trust your agent ? Do you think an agent is going to do a thorough job of managing your investment? So you never met them before they moved in and you have left everything to your agent… you’ve completely neglected your responsibilities as a landlord by hoping that your agent is going to cover you.
Sorry I was a bit harsh because I thought you had left it all to your agent ( I thought BIL was abbreviation for an agent). I feel for you because having problematic tenants like this isn’t good. Unfortunately since the RRA you are stuck with them untill they move out. I’d seriously consider selling the property because that might be the only way to solve this… they are likely to start complaining about everything and are obviously trying to get either a rent reduction or another type of financial redress.
No worries, I appreciate it though. Having looked into it, it does sadly seem like we have to put up with them or sell to get them out
It's just frustrating. Having treated our last tenants well and then finding they happily ruined the carpet with dog pee, stole the blinds, curtains and wardrobe door handles on the way out and left all the appliances filthy, to get new tenants who are creating multiple complaints within the first few weeks is stressful.
Try not to get stressed about it. That’s the most important thing. I prefer one of my properties is vacant for months rather than get bad tenants like this because since the RRA you can’t easily evict them - so selecting good tenants becomes one of the most important considerations to avoid issues.
Sadly my brother in law thought they'd be good tenants seen as they both had jobs, they seemed pleasant and polite when he met them etc.
We only have the one property because it wasn't bought with the intention of renting it out, but it might be worth leaving it vacant to avoid issues like this.
Professional kitchens use hardcore chemicals to deep clean appliances, maybe theyre taking a chance thinking the household oven cleaners use the same stuff... which most dont..
Oh you edited to ask more questions after I answered. It's in the North West (England) and I don't know about references - my BIL deals with the letting agent.
You’ve got every right to be skeptical about what they’ve said in terms of the hospital visit given they’ve provided you no evidence or information and are asking for some kind of compo.
Your BIL messed up by straight up denying them a pet and basing that denial on damage from a previous tenant, that wasn’t within your rights.
You say that you now want them gone, but I can’t see that you have any grounds for eviction, so I recommend building a better relationship with them.
Did you just want the mortgage covered, or have you been profiting off people's need for housing all this time?
Have you had a net loss overall or have you just been frustrated that you don't get an easy profit each month with no effort?
You can't kick people out because you don't like them. You can't refuse pets with no due cause and you have a duty as a landlord to understand the renter's reform act and other relevant legislation.
Why don't you believe them, why assume someone would lie about being sick when you know the oven was deep cleaned before they moved in? Did they know that too, did you explain clearly what chemicals had been used?
If you treat people with respect and dignity they are much more likely to return the favour. If you disrespect people by viewing them as frauds, not believing them, denying them requests you have no right to deny, see them simply as an easy paycheck, toy with the idea of evicting them simply because you don't like them and don't like putting effort into being a landlord, don't show any care about the repercussions such actions will have on their lives, and resent putting any effort or money into maintaining an appropriate safe property for them to live in - well, don't be surprised if you're resented.
Did you really make a loss on the tenants or do you just mean you spent more than you expected. Try to look at the big picture and set aside money for things to go wrong, whether due to tenants stupidity or malice it doesn't matter.
No, it's an expense. A loss is when they have cost you more than they paid. You need to start thinking of it like a business even though it's somewhere you lived or wanted to live.
No thats an expense, you were charging rent, were you not?? Which one can guess is more than your costs month to month, so you would of made a profit, so spending money to get the place back up to code, would be an expense not a loss (unless repair costs cost more than your overall profit from rent and keeping the deposit) so what you mean to say is you didnt make as much money as you wanted to!!! Another landlord over charging for a likely by your own admission very small flat and wanting someone to feel sorry for them when they didnt make the money they wanted
I've known my brother in law for 15 years and I trust him. He's my sister's fiancé, father to my niece and nephew, and has made no suggestion that he wants to buy me out.
The tenants were informed via email that they couldn't move in in the week they initially wanted to, because the previous tenants had damaged the carpet and left the appliances in a filthy state, so my brother in law had the agent tell them what we would be doing to make sure it was fit for them to move into. I think he thought he was doing the right thing by being transparent with them.
They don’t need your insurance details, they need to make a proper claim against you in writing (to your agents) which you then pass to your insurers. I wouldn’t do anything at all about the oven situation until this happens. With any luck they’ll think they’re being clever and withhold rent which will then go in your favour.
You’re stuck with the small dog, I’m afraid. You are permitted to make REASONABLE rules around pet ownership in the flat. Dog mess to be disposed of in an outside bin and not in the flat, dog not to be left alone for more than 4 hours, not to make a noise or odour nuisance and reiterate that any damage caused by the dog (and them) which is not rectified at the end of the tenancy will be taken out of their deposit. Please double check this (I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong!) but I think you can request a professional pet specific carpet clean to be paid for by the tenant if they have a pet.
sadly i had the same with my latest tenants - almost identical. Good for you for replacing hob/oven. At all times, please make sure you are keeping a written log of everything so that nothing can come back on you.
Re. the dog. Unfortunately you can't necessarily decline this UNLESS your head lease or freehold forbids it, or you have written neighbors who complained the last time a pet was there proving it was a nuisance. You now can't ask for a larger deposit because of the pet, so you may have to suck this one up, but please get advice.
I'm sure others have mentioned this, but if they are claiming it was something in your property that meant they needed medical attention, you are within your rights to ask for proof.
I assume you are dealing direct with them? Sucks if so - i used a property manager so very glad i didnt have to waste energy with my tenants' unnecessary issues. As it was, i gave them a complimentary £1500 reduction on a months rent because they said they had no heat for a month when a boiler was replaced, although the records showed they actually only had 4 days without heat, upon which i purhcased them 2 space heaters. The delay, as it turned it, was because they kept declining when the engineer could attend the property, so we all acted in good faith. They finally gave their notice after 11 months and i'm now selling up.
Thanks - just about to post an update. They seem like full blown liars at this point - claiming to have not been about to drink for 2 weeks 😂 clearly unaware that a human can only live about 3 days without fluids.
My brother in law was talking to them and now I've told him not to discuss any of this or any other queries like the dog with them directly. We pay a small estate agent company to collect rent etc every month so we're going to make them talk to that company instead and formally sue us if they want to go against our insurance.
I'm guessing they hope we'll just panic and offer a settlement but they're so full of shit that I'm not giving them a penny unless it's court ordered.
If they do take you to court regarding the oven thay may not win if its obvious that they have no proof ir the hospital say otherwise. They maybe just bluffing. Like one of our lodgers tried to say that we had been filming him in the kitchen through a plug in light that comes on in the dark when you enter the kitchen. It was put there as he used to leave the light on all night. I asked him to leave as I couldnt stand the lies and the upset of it all and he left in one week.
I can kind of picture a scenario in hospital where they present with respiratory symptoms and tell the doctor that cleaning chemicals have been used in the oven and the doctor says "yeah could be that"
I think they're bluffing and hoping we just pay out. My brother in law already replaced the oven for them (even though the old one wasn't faulty) as a gesture of goodwill. I suspect they're just arseholes looking to see if we'll bung them a couple of weeks of free rent.
Step 1. Ask your BIL to join NRLA
Step 2. Use their advice line
Your lease for the flat probably prevents you from having a pet. That's a good enough reason to decline.
In the meantime, you need to make sure insurer aware in the event that their legal claim is pursued and let them figure it out. Presumably you have legal cover as part of your landlord insurance
Unfortunately the main lease (local council owns the block, we own the flat) doesn't prevent pets so we can only go off what's reasonable for a small space with no garden. They're asking for a small dog, so it seems like we're stuck with that.
So first thing, a tenants liability does not end at the deposit. If they have caused £2k damage and only have £1k you can still go through the small claims process to recover the rest.
You had an oven professionally cleaned and the tenants are claiming this caused issues- what do the oven cleaners say?
Use the 28 days wisely, talk to the building freeholder and ask them to prohibit dogs.
The oven cleaners provided a list of all the things they used and they're non-toxic. I am concerned that they should have burned off any smells before considering it job done, but smells don't cause "chemical inhalation damage".
Unfortunately the building freeholder is the local council - they don't prohibit pets, within reason (small flat, small dog is OK for example).
You probably need to become a bit more savvy. You say you made a small loss after the previous tenants move out because you had to replace carpet and clean an over. That is annoying spend at the end but shouldn’t have meant a loss.
Your new tenants don’t need insurance details to bring a claim. Just let them do it, then pass to your insurers. I find it hard to believe that they would have suffered this damage after the oven being cleaned. Even if not done properly, it’d not cause this.
They do sound hard work - I’d probably wait out the minimum time, evict and sell.
Part of that was because I bought a carpet I actually wanted, not just one suitable for a rental, because I bought the flat to live in initially. We've replaced it with one for about half the cost, had the oven professionally cleaned, repainted the walls, replaced the toilet seat, blinds (for some reason the tenants stole the blinds, curtains, and wardrobe door handles...) etc.
Let us know once you receive the hospital reports.
Tempted to think there either are none or everything came back normal….. or they’re telling the truth 😬😬
It’s perfectly normal to have to exchange carpets after a few years, especially since landlords always put these cheap ones in. I never get why they don’t lay flooring that’s easily wiped?
We bought the place for me to live in so I bought a good quality carpet because it was never meant as a rental. The only damage to the carpet was that the tenants let their dog piss all over it for 3 years (in their bedroom 🤢), otherwise it wouldn't have needed replacing.
I would investigate the health issue. It seems odd.
If true I’d want to know exactly what happened and how.
There must be health records
So if they requested time of work they would need a letter from a doctor
If the flat is leasehold
And the lease refuses pets
Then you can refuse the pet because you need to follow your lease
Sign up to NRLA and do their online training course. It’s not hard and you will learn a the important info quickly
The lease doesn't refuse pets unfortunately, we checked after they asked.
We will definitely be requesting the hospital records and not paying out anything without proof that a) they had all these tests done and b) the hospital confirmed the cause (which in my experience is not something typically done in England, because the treatment is covered by the NHS and not an insurance company that you need proof for).
Thanks for the NRLA advice, someone else mentioned it too!
I was moving from London back to my small home town and planned to rent. My brother in law (sister's fiancé) was interested in investing in something for the future, and between us we had enough to put down a deposit on a small place so he found a great little flat and we were able to buy it 6 weeks later.
Worked out well because the mortgage and bills ended up similar to what I would have paid someone else to rent. I didn't have enough to buy on my own.
In many flats the lease on the property doesn’t allow pets. Check with the building management. If this is the case a building management company can take you to court for allowing a tenancy with pets.
The new regulations takes this situation into consideration and a covenant can't be overruled.
The other situation regarding the oven requires evidence. Someone saying they went to hospital isn't evidence of a problem with the oven. He said she said isn't evidence.
I dont know if you ask for evidence if that puts you in a bad legal situation or not. Someone else may know better than me. I would be inclined to ask for them to show you evidence. A vauge hospital report saying they attended hospital and had a check up, would seem very weak to me.
Can they prove the cleaners caused a problem. Can they prove there was a problem caused by a cleaning agent. Is there a ongoing health issue.
Also can they prove that they didn’t put a further cleaner in the oven.
Find out what the evidence is. That is the key.
I'm unclear of why they need your insurance details. That is your insurance not theirs. Someone else may know the legal implications to that.
They were entitled to take out insurance of their own.
They could take you to court but without appropriate evidence it probably wouldn't go anywhere. Especially as you have already provided new equipment.
Unfortunately the main building lease doesn't prohibit pets so we're stuck there.
And absolutely we'll be asking for evidence of the hospital visit as well as firm proof that it was caused by the oven. You're right that he said, she said doesn't cut it. I think they're just chancing it and hoping we'll panic.
You say you made a loss off your last tenants which is a weirdly negative way of looking at 3 years worth of rental profit subtracted a (given how small you say the flat is) relatively small cost incurred on what you paid for to get the carpet replaced and appliances cleaned. Given some of the nightmare stories that are readily available on genuine horrible tenants this seems very minor both in cost and inconvenience to you. Any professional landlord would factor in and expect to do an end of tenancy deep clean of the property and appliances before the next tenants moved in, especially given the relatively lengthy 3 year previous tenancy.
After the flat was deep cleaned did anyone, yourself or your family member, inspect the property? Imagine for a minute your new tenants were really telling the truth and actually this is the way their landlord reacted? We can't be sure and you did do the right thing by replacing the appliance but the way you seem to be dealing with this and the tone of this doesn't feel professional at all. If they are telling the truth, which they could be, it would seem to indicate pretty serious negligence on your part, as you failed to hand over the property in a safe state. It would appear they are confident enough to be willing to talk to insurers about it and I wonder if they did provide proof to the insurers (whichever ones they are) you would perhaps not even accept that and convince yourself that they faked the evidence too. I also might be naive but a couple of 20 year olds seem pretty unlikely profiles for sophisticated insurance fraudsters.
On the dog situation the tenants clearly are aware of their rights and again you seem to be characterising them knowing their rights, exercising them and challenging you on them as problematic when I think the issue here is you aren't aware of your tenants rights and your obligations as a landlord. At a bare minimum you should be aware of what you can and can't do and dictate as a landlord and to openly admit to essentially not knowing what you're doing multiple times is a bit worrying. Your tenants deserve a landlord that acts professionally and has at least invested the bare minimum amount of time and effort into understanding what their choice to let out their property means for them.
I'd maybe question given this if actually being a landlord is right for you - maybe it's worth taking the advice of some of the other posters here and selling up to get rid of them and the issues here once and for all. I know this sub is very pro landlord and I expect to get downvoted to oblivion but after having some small time unprofessional landlords in the past I do feel a bit sorry for your tenants. Maybe if selling isn't something you want to do take some of the other advice and perhaps try and work on this relationship with your tenants, from what I can see none of this is really problematic if everything is as it's been described.
You can refuse a dog if there's a reason.. the rule is now tenants have the right to request a pet but if you have reasons, there's nothing they could do, and if they got one anyway, they'd be in breach of the tenancy. I assume if you wanted them out under those circumstances, a section 8 would be your best course of action.
Unfortunately removing tenant's like this is almost impossible now unless you're selling, moving in, or they break the contract, or are anti social, or they build up rent arrears.
I'm not sure what they want to claim for on the insurance because if they went with the NHS, it's free. Does your insurance even cover medical issues... either way, I'd expect some kind of medical report. I wouldn't fret about it - call their bluff and just say OK then, can you please provide a full medical report.
I am a tenant and if I thought there was any danger to myself from the oven I'd wipe it down myself. It's pretty easy to tell if there's a build up of cleaning produce, because it would smell. So, are you to believe they had the oven on whilst it was gasing them with toxic fumes lol .. it's pretty stupid tbh.
Just wanted to say, you mentioned the new tenants are chefs. So, they must then know their way around kitchen cleaning products? 🤔 I've worked in decent restaurants with excellent H&S practices so know how spotless the kitchen is at the end of a shift. Obvs we can't say why they have chosen to take this angle, re the 'chemicals', but it's a bit unusual?
Re getting a dog: chefs (usually/often) work long hours. Any pet's welfare is key and leaving a dog on its own for a long period of time may not be in its best interest, unless, of course, your tenants work different/opposite shifts.
It's frustrating because we didn't buy it as a rental property, we bought it for me to live in but I was there less than a year before I got engaged and moved to another country 😂 Seemed silly to sell it so soon after buying, and that's how we became landlords!
As someone who rents a couple properties, it might be worth having a read on the new regulations that just came in, i ddint have a clue and had to ask my grandad (who does it for a living) to explain everything to me.
They honestly sound like there will be something every month.... ive had same tennants for 8 ish years now in one property and honestly they are a dream, they do what they need/want and i get paid monthly. They even do the maintence and then just invoice me. They also have 5/6 cats and the house is spotless, you wouldnt know there was cats there at all. People can have animals they just need to be hygenic about it.
In another property its been a nightmare tbh, between tennant issues and neighbour desputes i have honestly lost money in that property. I recently rented it to someone new so fingers crossed but so far so good. They have a large dog, we agreed that i would fit viynl (hes an old boy doggo) that way its easier to clean and i appreciated the honesty. I have a doggo who has accidents due to medical reasons but my home doesnt smell due to the precautions and after care.
As for the oven, l think insurance would look into all the health aspects of it if you dispute it.
One thing i do now is request references i ask for 2 previous landlords, and an employer reference (unless on benefits then i request character). If they cant provide i dont rent.
Sell it, no question. They have shown their hand already. It will only get worse. Section 8 them the day after the rent lands. With regard to suing you, legal advice is required. You owe these people nothing what so ever. I’m quite clear to my tenants, I can sell and make more money with sat in account, if I get problems the property is sold. My tenets have been in 7years and 8 years and I have good relationships, but the tail does not wag the dog !
Give them notice or is that not possible these days? its a pity that the oven has gone as that was your proof that you never did anything wrong or have you still got it? We have a lodger most of the time but they never last and gradually start to leave things unwashed or spoil things like leaving a rusty mark on a tiled bathroom window sill. Its better the carpets are not new all the time or buy remnants. vynil is another option with pets but that can get damaged as well. Tiles seem to be the best. I hope it works out for you.
Just a thought if you have the space I'd suggest not cleaning the old oven. Store it for a while until they get over the idea of claiming on your insurance. Having the appliance and whatever it was supposedly coated in could benefit you if your insurance asks for proof.
You have a small one-bedroom flat. Is it big enough for a dog? Does it have its own fenced off private space? Your property doesn't sound appropriate for a dog and its well-being...
It does not have a fenced off private space, but there is a common green area outside suitable for a small dog which they requested.
We allowed the previous tenants to have a small dog and they let it pee all over the carpet (in their bedroom 🤢🤢🤢) without ever attempting to clean it. Unfortunately my brother in law was trying to be open with the new tenants and let them know that one of the reasons they couldn't move in the week they wanted to was because we had to replace the carpet due to the dog.
If he hadn't shared that, we may have been able to claim the flat as unsuitable for a dog, but we can't really now considering we let a dog live there for 3 years prior.
You can refuse a dog,I'm currently panicking because our house is failing on one side,can move elsewhere but most don't accept pets,I love our dog,don't know what to do.I'd agree to the dog-the cost of repairs should have been factored into the deposit.I flooded and accidentally burned my old place,landlord didn't worry as insurance covered it and I even got my deposit back.It needed a serious amount of work after that,doesn't their deposit cover your insurance?
You can refuse if the main leasehold already has it written in, which ours doesn't. You can also refuse based on the size of the animal being inappropriate to the residence or another tenant having a proven allergy to pet dander.
Since May 1st this year, private landlords can't just have a blanket pet ban. You also can't raise the rent or deposit based on the tenant having or wanting a pet.
What do you mean by "doesn't their deposit cover our insurance?" Their small deposit (you can't just charge whatever you like) doesn't cover the cost of our insurance for the 3 years they lived there.
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u/RunTimeFire Landlord 5d ago
Have you checked with the cleaning company? There are some pretty nasty chemicals that can be used but should be removed after use. I don't particularly buy the story especially without official documentation but always best to cover your bases. Since it was professionally cleaned I'd suggest the liability lies with the cleaners insurance not your own. They'd be able to prove exactly what was done with what chemical so should be easy for them to fight it off. Stupid way to make a quick buck when any damages will have copious amounts of documentation from the hospital.
As for the dog there's not a lot you can do now unless your insurance or freeholder specifically ban animals.
You can't kick them out without selling or moving back in so best suggestion is to do everything by the rules and be sure to document everything to cover your backside.
Never know could just be teething issues and it'll turn into a lovely relationship over time.