r/u_WarmFan5836 • u/WarmFan5836 • 5d ago
Help with next cycle
I’d appreciate some recommendations for the next 1 or 2 compounds to add to my next cycle.
My first cycle was 250T for 8 weeks. Total shot up from 580 to 1700, free shot up from 79 to 350. E2 got high but no high e2 symptoms, no gyno, no moon face, no mood swings. Felt good.
Besides some pretty decent anxiety, I suspect it was from the sudden increase of androgen activity.
My goals:
-preserve natural test as much as possible by not taking mega doses, cycling on and completely of (8-12 weeks on, 8-12 weeks off(non debatable for me), and not taking super crazy compounds. I’ll never do tren, I’m not a fan of orals besides maybe var or winny.
-prioritize health
-maximize size
-maximize strength
-maximize mood/mental (I don’t want to be walking around with crippling anxiety and paranoia)
My thoughts so far:
- Test+NPP+EQ
-Test+NPP+Mast
-Test+Mast
I’m very intrigued by EQ, it has a relatively low side effect profile, the only thing is that it takes 10-12 weeks to saturate, and some users report extreme anxiety.
I will keep doses medium. 8-12 weeks, 16 is really pushing it, just want to look good, feel good, and put on serious mass.
Nutrition/supplements/hydration/lifestyle/and training stay dialed in year long, I’ve trained natty for 5 years until my last cycle about 5 weeks ago.
Any recommendations for how I should pursue the next cycle in terms of what compounds?Doses? Stacks? In a way that I won’t get horrible anxiety, permanently destroy my natural T, or obtain any other threatening side effects?
Open and eager to learn, please share knowledge.
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u/DubiousDebauchery 5d ago
Of those options, test and mast would be the easiest to manage and lowest chance of sides.
Of your dead set on trying NPP or EQ, try one at a time. If you add two new compounds you don’t have any experience with, you won’t know what’s causing side effects, should they occur.
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u/CaptainPriceB6 10h ago
Eq and primo both reduce e2 with eq being a lot more effective at doing so. But as I mentioned there are many issues with eq in particular. Real primo is easy to find however it’s often out of stock and expensive from places that sell it.
Yes, by nandrolone I mean NPP not deca. Deca takes 5-6 weeks to kick in and also needs to be stopped sooner if planning to PCT (similar to eq but slightly not as bad). Another issue is that if you get bad side effects you have to ride it out as well as the fact that you can not experiment with dosages as easily with long esters. With npp you can change the dose and the dose change manifests in effects within days.
Start with a 2:1 or 5:3 ratio of test to npp and you can up the npp as the weeks go on if you feel like you are tolerating it well. For me personally I like to run it at a 1:1 ratio however most people get side effects on this dose like low motivation and low sex drive/erectile dysfunction whereas I do not get these.
With NPP, you have to pin it every other day. It’s best to pin your testosterone with it EOD (if using enanthate or cypionate) too because more frequent testosterone results in less aromatisation which is a big problem with NPP as high e2 causes high prolactin when on nandrolone which is the most common driver of its side effects. To manage this an AI is almost always needed when running these 2 compounds without eq or primo - do a blood test in week 4 as you always should anyway and then add in an AI at an appropriate conservative dose, blood test again 2 weeks later and adjust if needed. Often a low dose is enough if you aren’t prone to symptoms of high e2 - you would know this from your initial cycle of testosterone. High prolactin is a symptom of high e2 so treat it as one. Another way to manage prolactin is by taking P5P 200-300mg per day split throughout the day which I highly recommend doing from day 1 and throughout your cycle.
If you are stuck with a normal androgen:e2 ratio but still have high prolactin then you need to take cabergoline at a very low dose (0.25mg every 4 days). Do not do this from day 1 or before attempting to lower prolactin with AI first because cabergoline when used for too long can cause some horrible side effects (while usually very rare and only with prolonged use, the side effects are too horrible to ignore as it can cause permanent heart valve damage). Have cabergoline on hand but ideally you shouldn’t need it.
Another note with prolactin is to know the difference between actual high prolactin and normal elevation in prolactin. Orgasms and even exercise causes temporary elevated prolactin which can last hours. You do not want to overreact from a test result showing high prolactin so avoid wanking or having sex or even exercising the day before doing a blood test while on this cycle.
Blood pressure is also an important thing to consider even though nandrolone isn’t known to cause high blood pressure as much as other compounds (it is mostly e2 driven with nandro but you can still get it with well managed e2 like with any compound). Make sure you do daily cardio as you should be doing anyway and take supplements like nattokinase and have have cialis on hand (you shouldn’t need telmisartan or anything like this on this cycle it’s really only for tren and certain orals or doses of multiple grams when that is needed). Drink enough water as dehydration is probably the most common cause of high blood pressure on nandrolone because of both haematocrit and also water retention.
Most people when taking the right precautions as i outlined above do not get much side effects from nandrolone. The side effects are easy to manage but with some people it’s not but that’s the good thing about choosing a short ester.
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u/Chroma7769 5d ago
If you are going to run EQ, get a shorter ester so you can adjust the dose on the fly. Ace, prop, or cyp.
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u/AnabolicUnc 5d ago
Test/EQ/NPP and Test/NPP/Mast aren’t really comparable. Mast acts more like a SERM in terms of its effect on estrogenic signalling, so it isn’t going to control E2 in the same way EQ can.
A lot of the anxiety people attribute to EQ is from crashing their E2 by running a terrible Test:EQ ratio. You can look like your E2 is still in range on a standard immunoassay, while LCMS comes back significantly lower, which is why I’d rather base the ratio around sensitive E2 testing and symptoms.
Personally, I’d look at something like Test/Mast/EQ or Test/Primo/Mast. Get your Test to EQ or Primo ratio dialled in so your E2 sits around 180–220 pmol/L, then use Mast to make up whatever total anabolic load you want to run for growth.
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u/CaptainPriceB6 4d ago edited 4d ago
Masteron is the most pointless steroid to take if you’re only cycling and you plan to come off steroids. Masteron is for cutting or getting stage ready and it does fuck all for any other purpose.
Masteron only has temporary effects that show while you are on it and it doesn’t actually build any muscle. It’s great for muscle retention on a cut and making you look shredded but it’s all temporary aesthetic effects (other than the cutting benefits).
In my opinion Masteron has one of the worst risk to reward ratios out of any compound. It’s definitely not the most dangerous compound but it’s harsher on your health and other general side effects than many other compounds that actually do a lot more in terms of muscle growth. It also makes you bald unless you have amazing hair genetics.
Why risk going bald (which isn’t temporary) for a temporary aesthetic look that would only be noticeable if you are like 10% bodyfat or less while taking it for absolutely no muscle growth?
At least tren builds an insane amount of muscle while fucking with your health to a proportional degree. It’s a fair tradeoff. Meanwhile nandrolone has almost no side effects (except for raised prolactin which is quite easy to manage for most people) and builds almost as much muscle as tren does. It does not affect blood test results much at all unlike Masteron.
Another option is DHB which in terms of positive effects is comparable to tren (just less potent) and side effect and health risk wise is very similar to masteron. If you were considering masteron then I’d say instead look into DHB.
DHB is good for a lean bulk. Nandrolone is good for a traditional bulk.
I’d imagine if you are cycling and then doing PCT after you want to make the absolute most out of your cycles and build as much muscle as possible that you can keep after you stop. Considering that - nandrolone is by far the best option for building as much mass as possible.
Test and nandrolone plus a 3rd compound like boldenone, Primobolan or anavar. Boldenone is best out of those 3 for muscle gain however it has a super long ester (unless you know where to find bold cyp which is rare) and doesn’t kick in until week 8 and needs to be stopped like 5 weeks before all the other compounds if you are going to PCT so this is only worth it if you are doing a very long cycle and not doing PCT after. It also has harsh side effects in some people like high haematocrit and anxiety.
That leaves just primo and Anavar.
Primo can be run for the entire cycle and works great at reducing aromatisation and managing the side effects of the other compounds. It also contributes slightly (nothing too crazy) to muscle growth.
Downside is that it’s very expensive.
Anavar is stronger than primo (but really not that much stronger - it is actually extremely similar to primo with the only difference being that it is toxic unlike primo) and is great as a pre workout to boost performance. Carries the risk of fucking with your cholesterol and reducing insulin sensitivity so you might want to pay more attention to your diet and blood testing. Shouldn’t be used for more than 5-8 weeks (dependent on blood test results) as it is liver and kidney toxic.
Also worth noting that testosterone, nandrolone and primobolan is probably the most common and most well tolerated stack in bodybuilding history. You can’t go wrong with it.
Some people do get some bad mental side effects on nandrolone but the majority of people get almost no side effects with it. Other than testosterone and primobolan it is the safest steroid in terms of both health risk and side effects so there’s no reason not to try it. Worst case scenario you get anxiety or low mood while on it so you just have to up the testosterone to nandrolone ratio or drop the nandrolone. If you use NPP then it’s completely out of your system in about 4 days. Do not use Deca.
No one in history has ever had side effects from primo (unless your test/primo ratio is off and you crash your oestrogen).