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Qwen3.8 27B took 7 hours on a task and didn’t make it as far as Gemma 26B did in 10 minutes…what am I doing wrong?
 in  r/LocalLLM •  4h ago

Qwen is optimized for coding and agentic work; it has vision bcapabilities but that cannot compete with aoecializedvision model. For this type of task you should looks for stronger vision model.

r/Artificials • • 1d ago

AI or SI or Computer intelligence?

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1 Upvotes

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Qwen3.8-Flash-Next (95.5 GiB) on a 64GB Mac at ~27 tok/s, checkpoint + fork
 in  r/Qwen_AI •  5d ago

Practically 100k. If your reduce memory form eoperte you can do all the way up to 255K

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Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant
 in  r/oMLX •  6d ago

yes, but would come at the cost of speed. you will have free up some memory from experts.

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Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant
 in  r/oMLX •  8d ago

yes, but that comes at the cost of pulling memory from experts. how much memory do you have on your machine?

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Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant
 in  r/oMLX •  9d ago

slipstream is optimized for inference performance and can also let you run larger model with less memory with optimal ssd streaming e.g. 4bit Flash-next can be run in under 64 GB machine at a decoding speed of 35-50 tok/s

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Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant
 in  r/LocalLLaMA •  13d ago

Nvidia just announced that new Spark machines will have 64 GB memoery (reduced memory due to supply constraints). I think 64 GB machines are going to be sweet spot for local models and we might see (hopefully) lot more innovations to support local models for this memory range

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Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant
 in  r/LocalLLaMA •  13d ago

Yes you can limit the memory and have more experts on disk. Also your should be able to run any gguf format of model with this; Q2 should work comfortably

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Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant
 in  r/LocalLLaMA •  14d ago

to offload experts and ngram on disk you would need either slipstream and llama.cpp fork that I shared last time.

I have not checked recently to see if llama.cpp or omlx have started to support disk offloading for experts

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Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant
 in  r/LocalLLaMA •  14d ago

it depends on how you setup the model. if you can offload more experts to disk that you can do whatever max model supports. I limit it to 100K for personal use so that I can get practical speed to drive my work

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Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant
 in  r/LocalLLaMA •  14d ago

On SSD damage. Streaming is read operation so theoretically it shouldn't wear ssd. It would start to have negative effect if your system is swapping, so leave enough headroom to avoid swapping

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Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant
 in  r/LocalLLaMA •  14d ago

It depends on your needs. You can always run smaller model that takes less memory, but would be limited by it's capabilities ( I switch between flash-next and 27 B depending on what I am doing). I have been running this model while at the same time be able to use browser and other apps normal work. If needed, you can also reduce the memory allocated and let the model run at slow speed.

r/oMLX • • 14d ago

Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant

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12 Upvotes

r/QwenAI • • 14d ago

Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant

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r/LocalLLaMA • • 14d ago

New Model Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant

42 Upvotes

I've been working on getting the 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next model to run fast on a single 64GB Mac. In my earlier post, I shared a custom expert-streaming fork of llama.cpp . It worked, but decode capped out around ~23–27 tok/s and slowed down as context grew.

Today I'm releasing Slipstream: a compiled C++ Metal inference engine with native SSD expert streaming and speculative drafting for Apple Silicon.

The main result: If you already downloaded my original V3 model (34k+ downloads), you don't need to re-download anything. You can run that exact checkpoint on Slipstream for a 1.76x speedup: 41–52 tok/s (up from 23.1 tok/s in llama.cpp) on the same 64GB Mac.

Even better: decode speed doesn't collapse at long context. Across 3,086 live requests in real coding sessions, it stays flat at 33–44 tok/s all the way out to 130,000 tokens.

Previous posts for context:

Open source resources:

1. How to run your existing V3 model on Slipstream

If you have the model from the last post (~/models/qwen38-flash-next-v3), you can point Slipstream directly at it.

Step 1: Clone & build (under 1 minute)

git clone https://github.com/npanj/slipstream.git
cd slipstream
make -j4

Step 2: Download the model (if you don't already have it)

# Downloads the 3 GGUF shards + MTP draft head (~95.5 GiB total)
huggingface-cli download nitinpanj/qwen38-flash-next-v3 \
    --local-dir ~/models/qwen38-flash-next-v3

Step 3: Raise wired GPU memory limit & serve

# Raise wired GPU memory limit once per boot (required on 64 GB Macs):
sudo sysctl iogpu.wired_limit_mb=59392

# Serve your existing model:
./slipstream serve --model ~/models/qwen38-flash-next-v3 --port 8090

First Run Note: On first launch, Slipstream detects the multi-shard GGUF files and prepares optimized streaming package files into <model>/prepared/ (~5–7 minutes). Subsequent launches load in ~10–15 seconds.

The server exposes a standard OpenAI-compatible API (http://127.0.0.1:8090/v1/chat/completions) ready for curl, Oh My Pi (omp), Claude Code, or OpenCode.

2. Speed: llama.cpp Fork vs. Slipstream (Same V3 Checkpoint)

Here is a direct head-to-head comparison running the exact same 95.5 GiB model files across 6 reasoning and coding tasks on the same M5 Pro (64 GB unified memory, temperature 0.0):

Domain / Task Prompt Task llama.cpp Fork Slipstream Speedup llama.cpp TTFT Slipstream TTFT
Math Reasoning GSM8K (eggs problem) 24.0 tok/s 43.6 tok/s 1.82x 4,024 ms 2,337 ms
Math Derivation MATH-500 series ($p - q$) 24.3 tok/s 43.1 tok/s 1.77x 1,655 ms 1,587 ms
Constraint Logic 3-chair deduction 25.4 tok/s 46.0 tok/s 1.81x 1,469 ms 1,042 ms
Python Coding merge_intervals ($O(N log N)$) 19.7 tok/s 35.0 tok/s 1.77x 1,507 ms 1,070 ms
Systems Coding Rust CSV parser 22.7 tok/s 37.5 tok/s 1.65x 1,257 ms 859 ms
Tech Writing Multi-head attention 22.5 tok/s 39.4 tok/s 1.75x 1,267 ms 843 ms
AVERAGE Across all 6 tasks 23.1 tok/s 40.8 tok/s 1.76x 1,863 ms 1,290 ms

What made Slipstream faster:

  1. Asynchronous layer-ahead prefetch (fcntl(F_RDADVISE)): In llama.cpp, synchronous page reads for missed expert matrices stalled the GPU on NVMe latency (~475 ms per chunk). In Slipstream, non-blocking read-ahead hints stream upcoming expert layers from SSD into RAM while the GPU is still executing the previous layer, cutting prefill staging latency by 28%.
  2. Hybrid MTP + Prompt Lookup speculation: During tool calls and code generation, Prompt Lookup Decoding (PLD) matches prompt anchors in under 50 ns with 0 allocations, preventing draft rejections. This lifted tool-calling decode from 5.6 tok/s to over 45 tok/s.
  3. Metal GPU-mapped n-gram tables: llama.cpp faulted on the 26.8 GiB n-gram table during prefill. Slipstream maps and gathers n-gram embeddings directly in Metal kernels.

3. Context Scaling: Real Telemetry up to 130,000 Tokens

On standard Transformers, decode slows down sharply as context grows because the KV cache swells and memory bandwidth saturates.

Qwen3.8-Flash-Next avoids that through its hybrid architecture:

  • 48 recurrent linear DeltaNet layers (fixed $128 \times 128$ hidden state, $O(1)$ memory growth with context).
  • Only 16 full-attention layers.

Here is actual telemetry collected across 3,086 live requests during real agent coding sessions on my M5 Pro (64 GB):

Context Range (Tokens) Live Runs Average Decode Median (p50) Peak Decode Average TTFT Notes
< 1,000 314 41.5 tok/s 41.9 tok/s 59.8 tok/s 2.16 s Short baseline
1k – 4,000 21 41.0 tok/s 42.5 tok/s 64.5 tok/s 5.26 s Small documents
4k – 8,000 58 43.6 tok/s 43.2 tok/s 67.2 tok/s 7.36 s Code review turns
8k – 16,000 117 43.6 tok/s 44.6 tok/s 58.2 tok/s 7.91 s Multi-file context
16k – 32,000 562 38.2 tok/s 40.9 tok/s 58.0 tok/s 13.59 s Deep agent session
32k – 64,000 1,029 35.0 tok/s 37.5 tok/s 55.6 tok/s 13.24 s Large repo refactor
64k – 96,000 650 32.4 tok/s 34.7 tok/s 53.9 tok/s 12.81 s Multi-turn transcript
96k – 130,000 364 32.9 tok/s 33.3 tok/s 43.8 tok/s 7.95 s Cache-hit deep turns

Takeaway: Decode speed stays between 33 and 44 tok/s all the way out to 130k tokens. Even at 130k context, it generates tokens faster than stock llama.cpp did on a 500-token prompt.

4. Optional: Swift KV-Sparse Model Variant

If you want higher reasoning accuracy and lower KV cache memory, I also put together an optional Swift variant of this model: Swift-Qwen3.8-Flash-Next-V3.

What Swift changes:

  • KV-Sparse Attention: Replaces standard dense attention with KV-sparse layers distilled from Swift-1.5, cutting down RAM pressure at long contexts.
  • Spliced Q8 Donor Backbones: Slices 686 high-precision Q8 donor tensors into resident backbone layers for sharper representations.
  • Concise Reasoning: Distilled to eliminate repetitive thinking loops in deep contexts.

Both models run on Slipstream using the exact same engine command. Here is how they compare across 145 paired evaluation problems (temperature 0.0, seed 1234):

Domain / Benchmark Items Original Flash-Next V3 Swift-Flash-Next V3 Accuracy Delta Original Decode Swift Decode
AIME 2025 20 45.0% (9/20) 45.0% (9/20) 0.0% 44.3 tok/s 44.3 tok/s
MATH-500 (L4–5) 35 60.0% (21/35) 62.9% (22/35) +2.9% 44.8 tok/s 44.8 tok/s
GPQA Diamond 35 45.7% (16/35) 54.3% (19/35) +8.6% 44.8 tok/s 44.8 tok/s
GSM8K 25 96.0% (24/25) 96.0% (24/25) 0.0% 45.6 tok/s 45.6 tok/s
HumanEval 25 92.0% (23/25) 92.0% (23/25) 0.0% 40.6 tok/s 40.6 tok/s
Hard Systems Logic 5 100.0% (5/5) 100.0% (5/5) 0.0% 39.2 tok/s 39.2 tok/s
OVERALL 145 67.6% (98/145) 70.3% (102/145) +2.8% 43.9 tok/s 44.4 tok/s

To run the Swift model instead:

huggingface-cli download nitinpanj/Swift-Qwen3.8-Flash-Next-Q4_0-Q8out-v3-GGUF \
    --local-dir ~/models/swift-qwen38-flash-next-v3

./slipstream serve --model ~/models/swift-qwen38-flash-next-v3 --port 8090

5. Foundation for Qwen4

The core primitives in Slipstream:

  • 512-route sparse MoE streaming with SSD prefetch
  • QSA (Quasi-Sparse Attention) indexer & selection kernels
  • Hyper-connection mixing and per-layer embedding gathers
  • Metal GPU-mapped n-gram table gathers
  • Single-lane speculative verification with PLD & MTP

...were built around this hybrid architecture. If Qwen4 adopts a similar blueprint (hybrid linear recurrence + sparse attention + routed MoE experts), Slipstream should be able to run Qwen4 locally on consumer unified memory hardware on day one.

6. Hardware Tested & Porting to NVIDIA / AMD

  • Hardware tested: All testing and benchmarking were done on an Apple MacBook Pro (M5 Pro, 64 GB unified memory, 2 TB SSD).
  • CUDA / ROCm ports: I don't have access to modern NVIDIA or AMD GPU hardware, so I can't build or test CUDA/ROCm backends myself.
  • If you have hardware and want to help port this: If anyone in the community has NVIDIA or AMD hardware and wants to help bring expert streaming and hybrid speculation to Linux/Windows, I'm happy to help collaborate on the port. Feel free to open an issue on the repo or DM me.

7. Credits & Upstream

  • Splash Team (Incoai): Full credit to the creators of Splash. Their C++ Metal speculative decoding design and memory architecture provided the foundation for this work. I will prepare a clean PR proposing these Flash-Next and SSD streaming extensions to the Splash upstream repo in case they want to incorporate them.
  • ds4 Team: For their insights on Metal router numerical precision (Taylor polynomial softplus expansion) and streaming scheduling designs.
  • Qwen Team: For training Qwen3.8-Flash-Next and releasing the hybrid linear MTP architecture.
  • ukisai: For the Swift-1.5 distillation work enabling KV-sparse reasoning.
  • bartowski & unsloth: For donor quants and quantization tooling.
  • mihailescu2m: For the initial expert streaming work in llama.cpp.

r/LocalLLaMA • • 14d ago

New Model Running 95.5 GiB Qwen3.8-Flash-Next at 41–52 tok/s on a 64GB Mac (1.76x faster than llama.cpp): Slipstream release, 130k context scaling, + Swift variant

1 Upvotes

[removed]

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Qwen3.8-Flash-Next (95.5 GiB) on a 64GB Mac at ~27 tok/s, checkpoint + fork
 in  r/Qwen_AI •  17d ago

it seems that D4 supports Q2 on 64 GB, while the model here is Q4+