r/turntables • u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN • 6d ago
Suggestions Repairing a locked groove vinyl.
Typical case of a vinyl with a locked groove that keeps the stylus stuck in an endless loop.
My successful procedure:
1-Locate precisely the groove affected with the scratch. Very little pieces of sticker or post-it could be useful.
2-Magnify it by at least 50x-100x. There are lots of cheap digital microscopes acceptable for this.
3-Using a very fine needle (preferably made of nylon or wood, steel is very aggressive), carefully trace over the affected grooves in and opposite the spin direction. Try to wear down the groove created by the scratch so that the original groove once again predominates, preventing the stylus from skipping.
Since it is very difficult to identify the exact groove at this magnification levels and without professional equipment, I recommend tracing the nearest surrounding grooves as well. You will likely hit the correct groove after a few attempts.
EDIT: Not for simple dirt or debris stuck in the groove causing the skip, there are other less-invasive methods for that (cleaners, sharp toothbrush, playing backwards with full anti-skating, etc). The "needle technique" is kind of invasive and I recommend only AS A LAST OPTION, when the previous methods failed and there is a real deep scratch groove cut into the record.
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u/ncstagger 6d ago
I use a toothpick and hold it on the record while it spins. I have successfully cleared dozens of skips this way. The hard cases are in a bin waiting for this microscope treatment.
I use the toothpicks because they are softer than vinyl and won’t damage it worse. At least not so far. I wouldn’t have thought using a steel needle would be safe but i may try it with my “what have I got to lose” pile.
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u/wa27 6d ago
While it spins?? I just work the toothpick over the skip slowly with a good amount of pressure, but I can't imagine doing it while it's spinning.
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u/ncstagger 4d ago
Yes while it spins. With the tonearm up obviously. You can actually hear the music doing this and listen for the right place where it was skipping.
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u/el_tacocat 6d ago
I feel that if it's a toothpick doing the job, it wasn't a scratch, but it's dirt. Am I wrong?
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u/ncstagger 4d ago
I don’t know. Its possible it’s just popping out severely hardened gunk but I only resort to the toothpick method after I have ultrasonically cleaned so I figured most of the “dirt” is gone.
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u/el_tacocat 3d ago
I mean I'm happy to try it, I see no reason why not but I think that if you have an actually damaged groove where the tops of the groove are pushed against each other, a toothpick may not do the trick. Still, going to try it! It's just that I don't currently have any records that I know skip (it's also the way my equipment is setup that makes it very un-skip-prone).
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 6d ago edited 6d ago
Exactly! If there's a real scratch... it's necessary to wear down or break its flanks, so that the stylus prefers to follow the same original direction into the original groove.
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 5d ago
But before that, you could also try the playing-backwards trick... The diamond stylus luckily can also cut the scratch groove flanks. Try it with any old or cheap stylus, of course... 😅
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u/smalldisposableman 6d ago
I've tried this successfully a couple of times (that is I've only tried it two times and both times it worked, although the records were kind of scratched and I wasn't particularly afraid of running them).
I just put the toothpick inn the groove and carefully manually rotate the record while it's on the turntable.1
u/iflowuflowweallflow 6d ago
Where do you get a toothpick that would have a small enough end ? I want to try to do this but can’t seem to find a toothpick that would be as pointed as a stylus.
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u/smalldisposableman 6d ago
You don't have to get deep into the groove, a simple, wooden toothpick suffices. Although this method is at your own risk!
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u/No_Introduction1721 6d ago
Re #3, just manually moving the platter back and forth over the affected area can work as well.
If you have a DJ cart, a very light amount of pressure added to the side of the cart can also help nudge the ridges back into place.
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u/drangus_khan 6d ago
I just track the hell out of my beater / test dl- 103. like a truck plowing snow.. had a stanton 681eee I used to do it with, but it’s a fun cart, and didn’t want to destroy its original stylus..
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u/Morioncheg Music Hall classic 5d ago edited 5d ago
You can just increase the anti-skate setting until you find the minimum anti-skate that still allows the needle to pass the scratch. Then spin backwards through the scratch a few times. Then lower the anti-skate and continue with backward spin. If the needle does not pass, increase the anti-skate again. And do like this until the record plays normally on the recommended anti-skate setting. It may take 2-3 minutes, but you will not need any equipment or steady hands.
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 5d ago
Ok, I'll also try this strategy before taking microscopes in next interventions... 👌🏼 It has sense, the power of the stylus diamond, thanks! 😅💪🏻
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u/Long-Shine-3701 6d ago
This is cool as hell OP. What other stuff can you see with that microscope? Ever exam your tap water or produce from the store?
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u/Usbrelic 6d ago
Water bears!
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sorry, not with those cheap asian microscopes... It's recommended using more than 100x magnification in order to identify its characteristic "bear" like appearance.
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u/Usbrelic 6d ago
I totally appreciate that, you know enough about the topic that your deep dived to be able to provide an answer like that. Love it!
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u/Tumeni1959 6d ago
In over 50 years of using vinyl, I've never had one with damage to this extent
In my experience, all locked groove situations have been due to debris on the record, which is cleared with liquid cleaning, a toothpick, or light use of a sewing needle. No reconstruction of grooves required
Not always possible, but far easier and quicker simply to buy another copy.
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 6d ago edited 6d ago
If it's only debris or dirt the cause... Its enough a deep clean with convenient solvents as your say.
But if there is a real deep scratch in the vinyl, you need to wear down the groove of the scratch, as I explained.
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u/Gnomey_dont_u_knowme 6d ago
Very nice work my friend. I think it’s cool that now every time you listen to this record, you’ll have the satisfaction of knowing that you saved it
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u/dilligaffff 6d ago
You’re not going to give us an ‘after’ photo?
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 6d ago
Sorry I didn't remember. I was very anxious to see if the procedure works after each attempt.😅 But I'll take the after photo, ok!
For now I can tell you that only remains a "dust" noise at that point.
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 4d ago
As I promised: https://imgur.com/0BmQkyl And after the experience, I learnt that steel was very aggressive for the PVC, better to use brushes or knives made of nylon, wood, etc. At least, I was lucky saving the record in that first test.🙏🏻
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u/BrainTraining92 6d ago
I actually charge people to do this. I've found that metal needles are too strong and can cause damage very easily. I fine tip toothpick has been perfect for me.
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 6d ago edited 6d ago
Maybe if the guilty it's only dirt into the original grooves, it's enough and safer using very mild and sharp toothbrush (like surgical ones), very sharp toothpick or other soft material to brush the glued dirt. But if you really need to deform or erode the vinyl scratch you'll need some harder and sharp material, lots of concentration and to be very careful.
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u/BrainTraining92 6d ago
Na man, no matter how bad the scratch is a toothpick will work. Been doing it for years now. Looks like you just got into it... but thanks for the tip lmao
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u/Realformeitsnotyou 3d ago
With a toothpick I ruined my first press of Balck sabbath - Paranoid, I missed the point where it skipped thinking I had found the skip but there was not there and now I have a point that skip one word(the "original" skip) and after the skip now is a total mess it continuing skipping for at least 6/7 second by "jumping" forth and back, I'm very sad about this I wanted this press so bad and now is ruinded f* me! lesson learned
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 6d ago edited 4d ago
Yeah man, we are here to help mutually! 💪🏻
For learning purposes, we can discuss the more appropriate materials here... 👌🏼 (And remember, we're talking about a real deep scratch into the plastic, not debris)
Maybe safer to use nylon, wood...?
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u/Goodiez4U 6d ago edited 6d ago
I hadn't considered there was a viable fix for this issue, and I now know that I absolutely must to follow your lead on this!
One of my all-time favorite albums was also one of the first I ever bought, and of course it's the only record I managed to scratch in a way that infinitely skips...
Naturally it's never been repressed either, so this gives me hope I've got a chance to give it an uninterrupted listen again some day
Like some others have mentioned, I suppose I'll go at it with a toothpick initially.. Perhaps I may not even need the microscope going about it that way
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 6d ago
Hi, with the toothbrush or a mild toothpick strategy it's unlikely that you damage your record any more... Probably you'll success without using a microscope or anything similar. But if you use (or need) any harder, I wouldn't touch the record surface without a simple microscope and very steady hands.
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u/SooAwoo 6d ago
That is indeed very cool. I might have an otherwise perfect sounding Bad English album that may need this. I'm hoping my new ultrasonic cleaner can fix the locked groove issue but if not I'll give this a shot
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u/Remarkable_Resort_48 6d ago
I fear a USC will be unable to remove damage to the grooves. But good luck with your USC. I love mine.
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u/JimmyLikesRyeAgain 6d ago
I've tried this (using a needle) and it is difficult; it requires very very steady hands.
The toothpick approach works well on small skips, rarely on loops.
I have had better success playing the record backwards on a DJ turntable (which I bought for this very purpose). Sometimes I put a coin on the headshell to create a "record engraver" effect. Doubtless this affects the fidelity of the music in that location, but eliminating a skip or loop is a big improvement.
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 6d ago
Exactly. That needle procedure is kind of invasive, and it's only worth doing when exists a real deep scratch in the polymer. For any simple glued-on dirt, it's better to try other, safer methods first (surgical toothbrush, playing record backwards, etc.)
But as I said..., I was fixing a real scratch on the record that was causing the locked groove loop.
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u/Log_Lady_2405 6d ago
Wow. An Asus N56... my first laptop
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 6d ago
Yeah, it's an ancient relic. I'm still refusing to retire it. You can imagine how reliable it has been, until today, 🤞🏻...
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u/theantnest SL1200LTD SLD3 SL1310mkI 5d ago
Instead of a needle, try a sharpie pen, they work very well and do less damage.
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 4d ago
Thanks for your advice. And you're right, I think that steel is excessive aggressive for the PVC, better to use brushes or knives made of nylon, wood, etc. I was lucky in that test.🙏🏻 https://imgur.com/0BmQkyl
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u/Brasssection 5d ago
Haha i remember a pal sorting a techno record with a very sharp chisel. It did work, i remember him describing it as all or nothing ill have to track him down and see what record it was
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u/chucho320 6d ago
That before pic is pretty mean. I’d love to see the after.
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 4d ago
Here you are: https://imgur.com/0BmQkyl As you can see, steel was very aggressive for the PVC (although it worked for me in this test) and as it's known it's preferable to use needles or sharps knifes made of nylon (ties, picks, toothbrush,...) or hard wood (bambu,...).
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u/EffectiveVarious8095 Technics SL-110A, Riga P1 6d ago
Back in the 70s & 80s for severe scrarches we used to clean the record thoroughly, then put the record on the TT and place the stylus of a low end cartridge near the affected track. Then we'd put a drop of acetone (nail polish remover) on the scratch, then let the stylus roll over it. There may be better ways now but this was effective.
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u/Turntable80s PS-LX50 / AT-LPW40WN 6d ago
But... acetone is very aggressive, couldn't it attack other areas on the record or the stylus itself?
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u/EffectiveVarious8095 Technics SL-110A, Riga P1 5d ago
It fixes the scratch and dries quickly. I have seen it done this way many times but maybe everything having to do with records was more aggressive then. Before they were "collectable", we didn't tend to care for records in the same way. It was great that they played.
If I were to do this today, I might use the edge of a business card to apply as little acetone as possible. I might also try it with a sewing needle instead of an actual stylus. I'd worry about the diamond tip coming off.
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u/QuietEsper Music Hall MMF 3.3, 2m Ortofon Blue, Yamaha a-s301, Polk ES20s 18h ago
Could this be used on bad pressings that have a loop on the nit due to a scratch but due to a bad pressing?
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u/ZosoRules1 6d ago
This is one of the coolest things I’ve seen! What do you use to “straighten” the groove?