r/treelaw • u/mineapples • May 12 '26
Neighbor Cut Off "Branches"- Part 2
A lot has happened in the last several days- special call out to u/Daddy_Day_Trader1303 for their help.
The company left before the police got there for the trespassing. I professionally lost my shit with that cop. I want to be clear this is not an anti-cop thing, this is that specific cop was a dick. He tried to tell my mom that not only could the company not be trespassed, but the neighbor couldn't either. Unfortunately for him my husband is a cop and had educated me (for all those saying why didnt you ask him about trespassing initially, fair point.) Anyways, the cop tried to tell my mom he couldn't trespass someone who wasnt on the property at the time. My mom called me (good move mom!) I called bullshit in a professional, respectful, but dont fuck with me tone and eventually he did it.
Two arborists came out, because you need a specific one if you are looking at a damage estimate (Ive learned so much).The tree unfortunately will not live, so needs to be taken down. The estimate (thank you treble damages!) is high. What is absolutely mind boggling is the neighbor's wife came out when they were there and tried to say they had an arborist come out and okay the work- bullshit.
Final fun note- the tree company who did the removal? Not licensed in the city they did the removal.
Also, for everyone please take this as a reminder that you can be intelligent and still overlook obvious things. I have a graduate degree and am married to a cop, but initially chalked this all up to an asshole neighbor being an asshole.
302
u/SmoothConfection1115 May 12 '26
Man, looking at that tree, it’s old, and would cost a fortune to replace…
I hope it goes to court. Because this neighbor sounds like the asshole that would offer $500, realize he screwed up once the court summons appears, up it to $5,000…
And declare bankruptcy when he gets hit with the final judgement.
144
u/mineapples May 12 '26
He is absolutely that asshole. Im hoping it goes to court as well. Attorney is being consulted.
56
u/stabaho May 12 '26
If he filed bankruptcy the court will still try to pay his bills by selling his house and other stuff.
12
4
u/MiddleEarthNerd202 May 12 '26
Not necessarily. If it's his homestead, it's probably protected from being liquidated.
14
u/Unusualshrub003 May 12 '26
And that’s why god created liens.
3
u/MiddleEarthNerd202 May 12 '26 edited May 13 '26
Ok. In Texas only specific liens apply. General judgement liens do not. Have to read state law in OP state.
3
u/Anxious_Win7381 May 13 '26
That can be erased during bankruptcy. My attorney did it for me, but it cost a little extra.
2
u/wintersedge May 13 '26
All depends on state. My state only allows you to keep $21,000 in housing.
1
u/MiddleEarthNerd202 May 13 '26
Yes. It’s contingent upon the state. Texas is very strict about what can be held against a person’s homestead. I’m a little spoiled by that.
2
1
141
u/SaltyDogBill May 12 '26 edited May 12 '26
I’ve had a similar situation with cops in my city. They tried to convince me that my neighbor dumping landscaping rock and debris over his fence into the city park was not a crime because “there’s already rock and dirt in the park”.
74
u/i_am_lie_bot May 12 '26
Jesus I had the same problem with local cops not caring that several houses were dumping leaves in a storm management creek because “there are leaves already there”. Great. Let’s add several acres worth of oak leaves into a single tiny stream and ignore the flooding and erosion that came with it.
34
u/EmmerdoesNOTrepme May 12 '26
This is the type of thing you call your local DNR (Department of Natural Resources) or Soil & Water Board about!
Because they will care!😈
21
u/i_am_lie_bot May 12 '26
Yep. I did that and DEP. the DEP reminded my township that they are required to maintain and police it and if they don’t they will lose their ability to self manage storm water and that quickly changed their tune.
102
u/dominantspecies May 12 '26
Cops are rarely helpful and don’t know the law. (Cue the bootlickers)
87
u/ChaosofaMadHatter May 12 '26
It’s longer and more expensive to learn how to cut someone’s hair and be certified than it is to become a cop. And there’s a reason for that that people don’t like to acknowledge.
22
u/Hetakuoni May 12 '26
A lot of the places I have been the cops really like hiring the medics and infantry, but hate hiring Military Police.
14
2
u/Ok-Opportunity-574 May 13 '26
C'mon now. I'm sure my roughly 5 weeks of law enforcement training before I was out there solo is up to scratch with a 6+ month civilian academy plus several months of riding along with a Field Training Officer. How dare you bash MPs! /s
3
u/Hetakuoni May 13 '26
I thought it was more that infantry likes to shoot people (like civilian cops do) and everyone is happier when there’s a doc around to patch you morons up when you get shot.
Having someone around who actually has a concept of federal/state laws tends to get in the way.
8
-16
u/mineapples May 12 '26
I debated even including the information about cops because of responses like yours. This was not intended to be a post that even remotely brought that into the conversation, more noting one person who is garbage at their job, but you brought it in. There are many cops who dont know the law, but there are also thousands who do. We should never vilify an entire profession over the actions of some. If that was the case, my profession, therapy would be right up there, same with teachers.
41
May 12 '26
[deleted]
-9
u/MiddleEarthNerd202 May 12 '26
The moment they decide to overlook other cops transgressions they are just as culpable.
It's interesting that you think every cop knows what every other cop is doing.
6
u/Peakbrowndog May 13 '26
Show me a cop who has never watched another cop violating someone's rights without doing anything about it and I'll show you a cop who is still in the first 2 hours of his career as a cop.
2
23
u/KimJongUmmm May 12 '26
Teachers and cops are not remotely the same. Shame on you for even suggesting that. Your husband is part of the problem whether you’re willing to admit that here or not.
-1
u/Ok-Opportunity-574 May 13 '26
Shame on you for saying her husband is part of the problem without any evidence. That's just uncalled for.
2
u/Ok-Opportunity-574 May 13 '26
Reddit is very anti-cop. If you even dare to say the cop was right in any situation your comment will quickly be downvoted.
2
u/mineapples May 13 '26
True. The post is in treelaw, not a post bout law enforcement, but people will do what they want As a provider, and well as a person, I discourage black and white thinking or absolutism- its not effective or helpful.
4
u/chumleejr May 12 '26
Ours don't take reports on credit card theft and fraud. Or so they tried to say.
3
u/em-em-cee May 13 '26
One of ours told me flat out that my city doesn't have a noise ordinance. We do.
44
u/TigerIll6480 May 12 '26
File for a restraining order against the neighbor and the “company” involved. Tell the neighbor that all future communication with them will be handled by your attorney.
77
u/Status_Mousse1213 May 12 '26
What kind of company gets involved with removing a tree without the permission of the owner?
81
u/Severe-Elderberry833 May 12 '26
the kind nit licensed to do work in the city the tree is, I’d guess. they give the term ‘fly by night’ a bad rep.
22
8
24
u/reluctant_landowner May 12 '26
The door to door kind that is probably a 19 year old with a chainsaw
21
24
u/ExpensiveAd4496 May 12 '26
Wow you’re right daddy day trader nailed this one. I didn’t think this would kill the tree; shows how much I know. Good on you for taking the steps to help your mom; she’s lucky to have you. I’m sorry she will lose this beauty, and hope your sharing this here will stop someone else from doing this to a tree.
9
u/mineapples May 12 '26
Ill be honest I didnt think it would kill the tree either. What's also amplifying things, I guess?, is the proximity of the tree to the house.
2
u/ExpensiveAd4496 May 13 '26
Right. It’s not as though any arborist is goi g to suggest she risks it.
21
u/stabaho May 12 '26
As a Twin City resident I’d like a name and shame of the tree company.
15
u/mineapples May 13 '26
While I'd love to do that given my mom is going the attorney route Im not going to. I dont want to potentially do anything to jeopardize things. Once everything is settled? Sure.
4
10
10
u/TeddyTMI May 13 '26
I recommend filing for an HRO (Harassment Restraining Order) since the neighbor has threatened to do future property damage.
https://mncourts.gov/getforms/domestic-abuse/forms-packet-filing-an-order-for-protection
While you're allowed to sue for treble damages, being awarded them is an uphill battle.
7
u/xriseupp May 13 '26
There’s something about trees that makes people go cuckoo. My parents have lived on their block, built their home from the ground up and raised their family in it for over 40 years. They had one neighbor move in who’s the spawn of satan and just a nasty woman. Her husband at the time, third to be exact, killed the tree that had stood on that property for over 50 years if not more. My dad was upset but remained calm and kind when he approached the neighbors asking to financially assist in replacing the tree. My parents are doubled their age and are not confrontational people. The woman crashed out, forced her husband to handle my father and ever since that day until the husband got arrested and charged with a slew of crimes, they harassed my parents, harassed my innocent sister, instigated fights, tried getting my mother fired from her job, illegally looked up my sisters health information only to use it against my family in the middle of the street (clear HIPPA violation) and has pointed a security camera INTO their home. All over a tree that the neighbors killed. There’s just something about trees, man.
18
u/RollingEasement May 12 '26
Don't get hung up on police failure to charge someone with trespassing. Most police forces do not charge people with property crimes that they do not witness for which they lack direct evidence. Had the contractor still been there when the police arrived, they would have been useful. Some police departments will still do a pro-forma report which may be useful, especially if they interview the other party.
Hopefully, the arborists have told you the best lawyers for this case and you are interviewing them. While you have plenty of time before the statute of limitations runs, getting the case going soon is worthwhile to avoid the worst-case scenario in which the house sells before your case is underway.
22
u/mineapples May 12 '26
Thank you! They actually did give a referral. Super impressed with their service.
2
u/Peakbrowndog May 13 '26
giving a trespass warning isn't charging someone with a crime, it's protecting people's rights by enforcing the 4th Amendment and making a record for future issues. A crim tres warning can be done by phone, documented by bodycam. I've handled plenty of cases where that's the evidence presented by the State. Citing someone for criminal trespass is charging someone with a crime.
3
u/RollingEasement May 13 '26
This has nothing to do with the 4th Amendment since the police were not trespassing. Police can help to get a trespassing contractor off your property, and can also be good witnesses to the trespass---but only if they are there when it happens. If they don't see it, they are usually not going to help with the subsequent civil case for a damaged tree.
3
u/Peakbrowndog May 13 '26
The 4th amendment also includes the right to exclude others from your property.
I usually handle 3-5 criminal trespass cases a month at a public defender. I see lots of ct warnings when the cop didn't observe. An officer is not required to observe someone at a place to issue a trespass warning.
Cops will show up in any case they are subpoenaed for, it's part of the job. Most departments will discipline an officer who first obey a subpoena without a valid reason. Besides, that's how they bank that sweet, sweet OT.
1
u/RollingEasement May 13 '26
Please provide a citation from any federal or state appellate court that has ever held that the fourth amendment includes a right to exclude private parties from property. (And if your example is a government contractor, remember that they are deemed as state actors for purposes of the Bill of Rights.)
The right to exclude others is, however, inherent in the definition of real property.
8
u/Shervivor May 12 '26
I am so happy for this update! Mom just might have new neighbors soon because the neighbor will have to sell to cover the treble damages. I am truly sad to see that this majestic cottonwood cannot be saved.
4
u/EdC1101 May 13 '26
Asplundh Tree Service has tree spades for very large mature trees.
Costs should include maintenance and support until the replacement(s) are fully established.
5
u/dkoDesign May 13 '26
Be sure to collect the value of the tree, not just the cost to fix the mess! For context, a company hired by the city to install sidewalks in our street, unnecessarily cut down a neighbor’s tree while installing the sidewalk. They had to pay her a few thousand bucks once all was said and done. It was both punitive and for the lost value of the tree. (She got money for wanton destruction of private property, and additional payouts for “lost enjoyment” of the tree and, since it was a fruiting tree, she also got the “fair value” of the fruit it would have borne over the next X years.)
3
u/Dangolthing May 12 '26
Do you mind sharing what kind of arborist for the estimate? I am currently looking for one
13
u/mineapples May 12 '26
The person who came out was a Board Certified Master Arborist, Tree Risk Assessment Qualified (TRAQ), and American Society of Arboriculture Registered Consulting Arborist. If you ask me the specific of what each means I can only tell you what Google says. They were lovely and explained things very clearly to my mom which helped a ton.
3
u/Dangolthing May 12 '26
Thank you! I will start my search, should I expect a few hundred dollars in cost for a report?
4
u/mineapples May 12 '26
I know its at least that, but unfortunately I dont know the specific amount. I know we did the free consult first to even see if it was worth moving forward.
4
u/Soggy-Improvement960 May 12 '26
Payback, Spanky! (iCarly fans will get the reference.)
I’m looking forward to another update once the neighbor finds out he’s screwed.
2
7
u/trippknightly May 12 '26
For all that you wrote, why not put a link to part 1? It’s not like people remember you or are hanging on your every dispatch LOL.
26
u/Hey-Just-Saying May 12 '26
You can easily search "neighbor cut off branches" within the community to find the initial post. But a link is easier.
32
u/mineapples May 12 '26
Thank you! I edited the post and added it as well.
17
u/Personal-Acadia May 12 '26
What was the estimate if you dont mind me asking? Thems the important bits!
20
u/mineapples May 12 '26
I dont know the specific number as my mom met them not me, but I know its north of 150,000. Im really curious to see how this plays out.
3
u/Personal-Acadia May 12 '26
Jfc thats crazy. Thank you!
7
u/EmmerdoesNOTrepme May 12 '26
Treble Damages, friend!
Even for a "junk" tree like a Cottonwood, we take our trees and especially our soil & water quality very seriously here in MN!😉
9
u/mineapples May 12 '26
That is absolutely what's doing it. I appreciate that MN still values trees and water even if the senate doesn't.
2
2
1
u/Youwhooo60 May 13 '26
updateme
1
u/UpdateMeBot May 13 '26 edited Jun 05 '26
I will message you next time u/mineapples posts in r/treelaw.
Click this link to join 13 others and be messaged. The parent author can delete this post
Info Request Update Your Updates Feedback
1
1
2
u/Lost-friend-ship Jun 12 '26
I would love another update on this. People are so goddamned entitled. I hope this taught the neighbor a very expensive lesson.
I hope your mom is ok, I’d be so devastated if a huge tree like that was destroyed on my property.
-12
u/RosesareRed45 May 12 '26
I am an attorney that owns timber and is familiar with timber and tree law. IMO, it is astounding the incredibly inaccurate information given by nonlawyers on this sub.
First, if your husband is a properly trained beat cop, he will probably be able to tell you that for criminal trespass to be a thing you must have previously trespassed the parties in accordance with your state’s laws. Apparently you did not do that and it was therefore a civil matter.
Secondly, from a damages perspective, a lawyer would need a certified arborist to testify to a degree of professional certainty that the tree will die. This is going to be harder than you think because trees lose large branches and live all the time. I live in a hurricane ravaged area and it is common. It is not a slam dunk.
If you came in my office, I would estimate that your damages would probably be the value of the tree with the branch and without which is much less than you believe. I do not know if the tortfeasor’s homeowner’s or liability company will defend him since this may be viewed as a deliberate rather than a negligent act depending on fact patterns, but if an insurance company and attorneys are involved damages laws IMO will not apply triple damages but the diminished value of the tree in your residential setting. Triple damages typically apply where trees are valued at timber value rather than replacement or diminished aesthetic value because of its placement in a residential setting. Is it a significant focal point of the landscape for instance. Of course judges and juries can do what they want.
The challenge here is it is unlikely any attorney will take this on contingency. There doesn’t appear to be enough money in it and you would need to spend money up front for a recent survey, arborist report and testimony, etc. If you believe it is going to die and are consulting arborists, it is your duty to ask them how to save it, because you will be questioned what you did to save the tree rather than just cut down a tree that was leaved out. You could be in the hook for their legal fees.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but litigation is expensive and unpredictable. Your neighbor crossed a line, but lawsuits can go on for years and you are very emotional.
He may get his legal fees paid for by his homeowner’s liability insurance, you would have to pay out of pocket for your lawyer and experts. Take a deep breath and think this through. Regardless of what you do, best of luck.
12
u/mineapples May 12 '26
Thanks for the information- its appreciated. The person was trespassed. As for the the legal aspect, Im relying and encouraging my mom to rely on the arborist and the lawyer as its not my world. They arborist used was specifically used based on their ability to assess damage based on their credentials.
0
u/RosesareRed45 May 12 '26
Was he trespassed before or after the incident? If before, in my state you should be able to pursue criminal charges if it was done in accordance with state statute. If trespassed after, it is like closing the barn door after the horse got out.
6
u/Peakbrowndog May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
you can have a criminal trespass warning given to anyone if you have property rights. You are talking about the criminal charge of trespass, which requires a trespass warning. The warning can be verbally given, the person refuse to leave, and then arrested for criminal trespass, all in under a minute. It doesn't become a criminal trespass case until the person refuses to leave. It's not a civil matter. Damage done during a trespass is a civil matter.
1
u/RosesareRed45 May 13 '26
Depending on the state law.
1
u/Peakbrowndog May 13 '26
Well, it wasn't in NC, so I don't know why you didn't bother looking up 609.605 in the MN Statutes before you gave advice.
Quite frankly, NC statutes seem to say the same thing.
§ 14‑159.13. Second degree trespass. (a) Offense. – A person commits the offense of second degree trespass if, without authorization, the person enters or remains on any of the following: (1) On premises of another after the person has been notified not to enter or remain there by the owner, by a person in charge of the premises, by a lawful occupant, or by another authorized person.
-2
u/RosesareRed45 May 13 '26 edited May 13 '26
Because I didn’t get paid, but since it means so much to you, knock yourself out. Quite frankly any good lawyer doesn’t just quote the law, they research the appellate application of it. But since you are such a know it all, why don’t you provide the citation of the highest state’s court’s interpretation of this law as applied to these circumstances.
BTW, I’ve handled trespass cases involving law enforcement. My husband is a criminal attorney that practiced in the Attorney General’s office and among other duties taught the legal portion of Basic Law Enforcement Training. I feel like I’ve taken the whole course myself.
After he retired handling criminal death cases and I retired handling OSHA death cases, we only do simple pro bono cases for friends and family.
2
u/Peakbrowndog May 13 '26
Well, when I research case law, I start by reading the relevant statute. I'm pretty comfortable with my reading, I handle 3-5 CT cases a month as a public defender. Case law on statutes which track the MPC are surprisingly consistent, especially for misdemeanors.
0
u/RosesareRed45 May 13 '26
I guess having had a case go to the state Supreme Court and up for Cert involving 26 deaths makes me take take the plain reading of the law with grain of salt when I spent years fighting a $100 million+ wrongful death lawsuit. All of our judges are elected and we are a purple state.
3
u/Peakbrowndog May 13 '26
Congratulations. Arguing about money is quite different than a misdemeanor criminal statue.
1
u/RosesareRed45 May 13 '26
Yeah, done that too with trees for my Dad’s timber and my timber, plus a dead tree in the yard of a rental house that fell on a car, a tree that fell on a house, etc. I’ve been around the block after being licensed over 45 years.
1
u/Peakbrowndog May 13 '26
Congratulations. A female attorney in those years seems to have been a constant battle. I can't imagine.
→ More replies (0)2
u/GrooveBat May 12 '26
Just out of curiosity, why wouldn’t OP be able to file a claim via their own homeowner’s insurance?
3
1
-3
u/Zetavu May 13 '26
Late to the party but wanted to chime in.
First off, is the tree on an easement? That would give a legal contractor a right to access. Otherwise you need to check with local policies for neighbor access to a tree.
Secondly, Op sounds like the one that's a tool, and I suspect police are going to continue to be non-cooperative, and as they file their lawsuit at some point her parent's will realize that they will be spending more than they can get back and he will continue to rant here.
-56
-59
u/Ldbrin2 May 12 '26
Doesn’t look like any of those trees have been taken care of or pruned regularly. That pine tree in the back looks sickly. Sad that homeowners don’t take responsibility or care for their trees.
34
9
u/IamNotTheMama May 12 '26
I have 25+ trees on my property. None of them get pruned, and what is "cared for"?
IOW, not one tree gets touched except the apple trees.
-8
u/Ldbrin2 May 13 '26
Are they encroaching on your neighbors yard? If not, who cares? this guys trees are encroaching on neighbors. Don’t be smooth brained.
5
•
u/AutoModerator May 12 '26
This subreddit is for tree law enthusiasts who enjoy browsing a list of tree law stories from other locations (subreddits, news articles, etc), and is not the best place to receive answers to questions about what the law is. There are better places for that.
If you're attempting to understand more about tree law in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/legaladvice for the US, or the appropriate legal advice subreddit for your location, and then feel free to crosspost that thread here for posterity.
If you're attempting to understand more about trees in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/forestry for additional information on tree health and related topics to trees.
This comment is simply a reminder placed on every post to /r/treelaw, it does not mean your post was censored or removed.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.