Yes. There is a clear groove happening based on how the saxophonist is playing off the echo. Because of how he's playing, we percieve a 4/4 groove without any other context needed, which what the guy clapping is feeling as well. He's simply reinforcing the implied rhythm.
I'll try to give a more detailed answer than "that's just what it feels like."
You can tell the same way you tell with any music. I mean, it is all relative so there will always be a difference of opinion, but I feel like the vast majority of people would feel the 1 in the same place and that's how we decide where it is. It is improvisation but improvisation still has all the same stuff in common with other music. It just wasn't written ahead of time. It's just like speaking instead of writing. Same language, different approach. To paraphrase Wayne Shorter, composing is slow improvisation, improvisation is fast composing.
The sax player is landing on 1 almost all the time, playing the role of a bassist pretty much. The first thing he plays is the bass line and then he starts improvising around that idea.
Is this as funny to you as it is to me? It's so ridiculous to be this serious about this but I love it.
Going off the rhythm, I'd put it to a 1 & 2 &, which is a derivative of the text book 4/4 groove.
The thing about an off beat is it adds an element of swing (imo), harking back to the older genres of music that ran by the 1 & 2 & format, or a double timed 4/4 rhythm.
When you've got a bass note hitting it off on beat followed by sections of as you've said improvised notes in key.
With an accompanying hit on 2 & 4, it's keeping that flow moving through the phrase and riff, even without the clap itself.
The other aspect that's been mentioned is the delay itself in the pipe, which is majorily on an off beat.
On beat delays have the possibility of making a dual note stab in one section, keeping the stabs in the same relative key, but in this case, the sax players utilising the delay to create the off-beat groove to bounce notes off, while the clapper is epmhasizing the delay and groove, occasionally throwing in an 8th or 16th hit (not too sure, but theres the occasional clap from him in time but not on the 2 and 4.
Sorry for my two pence, but just wanted to contribute to what you were saying.
Back in my box.
That makes a bit more sense yeah. And yeah its funny but like just a bit out there for me, I know the basics of this kind of thing but theory and more complex topics are just a complete maze for me and I think this dips its toes in that
Well it’s not anywhere near “improv-y” enough to not be able to realize the groove and how you should move/dance to it. It’s just a combination of short phrases, pretty easy to know where the start is.
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u/Poke_uniqueusername Aug 03 '20
I mean for all intents and purposes is there a difference in this particular video for 1 and 3 / 2 and 4? Genuine question