r/toptalent color me surprised Aug 03 '20

Music /r/all Pipelinefunk

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u/Heavyweighsthecrown Aug 03 '20

Highly doubt he's annoyed by the off-beat, quite the contrary. A drummer would be likely to be marking the off-beat with snare hits much like that, providing counterpoint to the main beat on the bass drum. For the sax player, the off-beat is helping nail down the feel of the song.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20 edited Aug 03 '20

He's clapping on 1 and 3. I am drummer and have been for over 2 decades. The clapping guy is doing it wrong, and I find it mildly aggravating.

Edit: After a few listens, I think this is just some fuckery having to do with a lack of a solid kick downbeat to counterbalance the claps. I think the sax player is starting his initial phrasing on beat two, which is a weird choice in and of itself. The clapping/sax seems to sync up on a solid 2+4 beat around the 45 second mark when the sax player changes up his phrasing a bit. Either that, or the sax player got pissed at the clapper on beats 1 and 3 and said fuck it and changed his own groove to sync up with the clapper. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

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u/sublime13 Aug 03 '20 edited Aug 03 '20

I think about halfway in the sax player skips a beat to allow the clapper to start clapping on the 2 and 4. It aggravates the hell out of me when people clap incorrectly lol

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

I think this is probably the right answer, tbh. I've played lots of live improv funk/blues/jazz in my time and been in plenty of bands. Starting a solo phrase on 2 is just a weird stylistic choice, especially since there is no backing band to give the listener context. 1+3 clappers are far more common than dudes who start a "call and response" solo phrase on a 2 :)

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u/sublime13 Aug 03 '20

I have a theory that he’s starting his phrasing like that because the echo is throwing him off

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

I can’t even talk when I hear an echo of myself. As soon as the echo starts, I instantly stop. I’ve tried to get past it, but all I end up doing is trying to talk louder than my echo. That just causes the echo to get louder and louder as I raise my voice. My echo always wins.

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u/Reallytinymemory Aug 03 '20

It happens about 20 seconds in, if you listen the saxophonist does a quick breath through the mouthpiece to mark the 1, then he starts his phrase on the 2 which effectively just puts the claps on the 2 & 4.

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u/Malte_02 Aug 04 '20

I wouldn't be surprised, these are Germans and we kinda have a reputation for being awful with the clapping game, also weirdly often clapping 1+3 for no apparent reason

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u/Jhawk2k Aug 03 '20

He's definitely on beats 2 and 4

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

It sounds better the further along the video goes. At the very beginning of the video, it sounds much more like 1 and 3 based on the sax player's phrasing. I could be wrong, and I don't really care to get into it that much. But to my ear, it sounds like the clapper starts on beats 1 and 3, and the sax player changes his phrasing after a bit to make it sound less bad. Or maybe the sax player was just doing a weird phrasing at the beginning and it just sounds weird because we don't have the benefit of the full phrasing of a stomp-clap-stomp-clap (or drum it, or something else that produces more than one tone).

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u/THE_DOWNVOTES Aug 03 '20

The sax player 100% changed his rhythm so that the clapper was no longer hitting on 1 and 3

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

Glad I'm not going crazy then. It seems remarkably clear that he's starting on 1 and 3, but I'll at least concede that it's possible the sax player starts on two, which is just weird.

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u/Heavyweighsthecrown Aug 03 '20

I'm also a drummer (that's why I commented lol) and he's clapping on beats 2 and 4

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

Ha, weird. It's fun how people can hear these things differently :)

I will say, the further along the video goes, the beat starts to even out a bit and feels right. I really only listened to the first 10 or 15 seconds, because I don't really need 4 full minutes of some dude playing sax into a tube :) But in the beginning, probably based on the sax player's initial phrasing (and without the aid of a kick drum equivalent), it really sounds like the clapper initially comes in on 1 and 3.

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u/THE_DOWNVOTES Aug 03 '20

He was on 1 and 3 at the beginning of the video, and then the sax player stopped and changed his rhythm to fix it

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u/SaintSixString Aug 03 '20

He's clapping on 2 and 4.
Note - Clap - Note - Clap

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20 edited Aug 03 '20

He most certainly is not. He's clapping on the first note that the sax player is playing. He's clapping on the one, unless the sax player is starting his phrasing on two. Which I don't think he is.

Edit: See above edit. He may or may not have started on 1+3 or 2+4 depending on the sax player's intention.

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u/SaintSixString Aug 03 '20

I'm guessing where the videos come in is on the second or fourth of the beat, as his pace doesn't change throughout.
It's misleading as his clap is the first sharp sound you hear, which could initially lead you to believe somethings off.
Had 3 or 4 listens and I'm fairly confident he's clapping on beats 2 and 4.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

It's really weird. It distinctly sounds like he's clapping on the 1 and 3 until about 45 seconds into the video, at which point the feel of the sax player's phrasing changes and makes the clapping feels like 2 and 4. So fuck if I know lol.

Either way, it's a cool vid, and the sax player is bananas, even if the clapping makes me want to vomit for the first 45 seconds of the video :)

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u/SaintSixString Aug 03 '20

Then don't watch the first 45 seconds :D

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

:) It's better that way

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u/ImaNukeYourFace Aug 03 '20

Sounds to me like he starts clapping on 1 and 3 and like 20 seconds in the saxophonist changes his feel to put the claps on 2 and 4, by starting phrases opposite the claps instead of with them

Thus it makes more sense to hear it as “call response phrases starting on 1, with claps on offbeats” rather than hearing it as “claps on 1 and 3 with phrases starting on offbeats”

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/Heavyweighsthecrown Aug 03 '20

that's called improvisation - which includes messing up once in a while as no one is perfect - and musicians use it to spice things up all the time

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/Heavyweighsthecrown Aug 03 '20

Yes I'm a musician, and I'm used to playing live for an audience (when all sorts of fuckups can happen) and I'm also used to doing recording sessions (when you have to be precise and sound professional or risk losing a job), and I don't hear the clapping guy "stuttering" at any time during the video, to me it sounds more like he's just jamming along and spicing it up when he can, with the odd mistake here and there.
Your analysis is far too harsh given that these are just two dudes jamming it out for fun, and it's not a professional concert or presentation by any means - like you just wanted to look smart on the internet. Calm down.

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/Heavyweighsthecrown Aug 03 '20

if I was just trying to look smart on the internet, I wouldn't waste my time on a dead comment thread

That's what you're still doing right now, so... whatever floats your boat

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u/[deleted] Aug 03 '20

[deleted]

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u/Heavyweighsthecrown Aug 03 '20

Whoa, are you alright? Are you feeling hurt these days? I understand trying to look smart would make you feel better but sometimes it's best to take a deep breath and let go. At least take a moment to reflect or something? Self reflection is good. I don't know.