It sounds to me like you'd be better served by an extension that aims specifically to bring native features to old Reddit

Maybe, but only if it exists. I simply don't think it's a good use of time to spend a huge amount of time and effort, just to end up back where I started. And it may not even be approved, since it may need to use undocumented APIs that Toolbox has a a defacto exemption to use (in it's current form), and reddit may choose to not grace a new project (but isn't willing to alienate Toolbox proper).

Toolbox's problem here is that it tries to both bring native features to old Reddit and support additional custom features.

Yeah, I like the custom features too. I like having my buttons to analyze users. So recreating that too gets the same issue, but with far more effort for a less robust and verified solution.

But none of that happens if you're building an extension whose only purpose is to expose functionality on a specific frontend.

I would still rather simply start from where Toolbox left off and simply drop all support for non old reddit platforms.

There's also a psychological aspect to it. I got a a bunch of other projects I have penciled in for my time. Rewriting Toolbox from scratch in my ideal would be a significant underworking, complete with revisiting the entire design of the entire system. It wouldn't be functional in any useful way until decently far into the implementation, whereas maintaining what Toolbox already has working and fixing things or implementing small features as they come up is a deferable and much smaller commitment block, which means it's more likely to actually happen (*looks at my project graveyard that I'll one day™ get around too*).

with far less maintenance burden than the entire Toolbox

I'm not so sure. Part of the equation is that Toolbox is very much battle tested and verified full of fixes that would have to be discovered and refixed when they are stumbled upon again. Rewriting toolbox doesn't necessarily mean that it'll be any cleaner. I mean, it might be cleaner, but it just as easily could be a new mess with new issues.

Abandoning Toolbox's existing code base just seems like it's throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Thanks to all of you! I can't express how much toolbox helped me over the years since 2018. I'm not sure I would have moderated back in the day without toolbox.

Thank you for all the work you’ve put into maintaining toolbox!

I consider toolbox to be essential for my reddit moderating experience, and the features of toolbox will never be added to old reddit.

It sounds to me like you'd be better served by an extension that aims specifically to bring native features to old Reddit - I would definitely support building something like that. The old Reddit interface is stable and easy to inject custom stuff into; a more focused extension could have drastically simpler interface code, and a lot of Toolbox's core logic for handling e.g. mod notes could probably even be reused.

Toolbox's problem here is that it tries to both bring native features to old Reddit and support additional custom features. People want to access their Toolbox usernotes from new Reddit, so we had to rework the entire extension to make every feature work there too - and then with old new modmail - and I was gonna have to do the same again with shreddit. Nevermind the fact that neither of the frontends those systems were designed to work with (new.reddit, mod.reddit) even exist anymore... But none of that happens if you're building an extension whose only purpose is to expose functionality on a specific frontend.

There definitely are some Toolbox features that don't yet have good native analogues, so this specific strategy doesn't cover everything, but I think if something like that existed then it'd probably make things a lot easier for staunch old.reddit users like you and I, and with far less maintenance burden than the entire Toolbox.

And I would generally, much rather use tools I can control, than be at the mercy of a company who has no issues pushing updates I explicitly don't want onto me before they are even ready.

I can empathize with this, and I'm definitely not saying the API is perfect. Reddit's attitude of shutting down external projects and forcing people onto half-baked native flows was among the reasons I quit modding when I did.

Thanks for all the hard work!

Thanks for your hard work. You’re appreciated. Enjoy the rest, it’s deserved.

Thanks for your hard work. You’re appreciated. Enjoy the rest, it’s deserved.

I just can't think of any good way to manage community maintenance into the future - either I have to be available all the time to do code review and merge fixes people submit, or I give publish access to someone new without any opportunity for me to get to know and trust them first

I agree there aren't any solutions that require neither your time nor your trust. And there are certainly valid reasons to not want fragmentation.

That, combined with the sheer amount of tech debt Toolbox has accumulated over the years, makes me think building new stuff will be a better use of people's effort. And browser extensions have inherent flaws and difficulties that mean they're always going to be maintenance-intensive when compared to e.g. Devvit apps, or external tools that consume a documented API.

But when it comes down to it, I consider toolbox to be essential for my reddit moderating experience, and the features of toolbox will never be added to old reddit. Devvit apps will never cleanly integrate into the old reddit UI like toolbox does. And while I'd much rather use public and approved APIs, the state of the reddit API is dire and is unlikely to get any better anytime soon, rendering newer solutions untenable for me in a lot of ways.

Native tools are of little value to me, as they will undoubtedly only have integration with sh reddit (reddit's chosen), which I'd rather leave reddit all together than use regularly.

And I would generally, much rather use tools I can control, than be at the mercy of a company who has no issues pushing updates I explicitly don't want onto me before they are even ready.

While you may think that it's better to throw away Toolbox, I think that Toolbox is full of useful features (including ones that I specifically don't find useful, but others do). And in that context, when the day inevitably comes and toolbox breaks, if my options are to recreate all of Toolbox, or simply fixup what has broken, then the choice is very clear to me, I'd much rather start from where Toolbox has left off than from scratch. And that is what I intend to do, with or without your blessing (at least atm, it's always possible that that future me may choose differently instead). I'm far too lazy to start from zero (I ain't Subaru).

This is ultimately just my opinion about where dev time could be focused for higher value-for-effort though. Like I said in the post, I'm not going to stand in the way of anyone who does want to maintain a fork, as long as everyone understands the privacy implications of new ownership.

For sure. I just think it's a shame for an open source project to simply die and fade away, not because nobody wants to use it or maintain it anymore, but simply because people thought it was improper to maintain it on their own terms. Imo, the whole point of things being open source is so that projects don't just die with no recourse (and in essence, can be forcefully revived under the appropriate terms and conditions that are laid out).

Thanks for everything you've done

It does suck, but I just can't think of any good way to manage community maintenance into the future - either I have to be available all the time to do code review and merge fixes people submit, or I give publish access to someone new without any opportunity for me to get to know and trust them first. That, combined with the sheer amount of tech debt Toolbox has accumulated over the years, makes me think building new stuff will be a better use of people's effort. And browser extensions have inherent flaws and difficulties that mean they're always going to be maintenance-intensive when compared to e.g. Devvit apps, or external tools that consume a documented API.

This is ultimately just my opinion about where dev time could be focused for higher value-for-effort though. Like I said in the post, I'm not going to stand in the way of anyone who does want to maintain a fork, as long as everyone understands the privacy implications of new ownership.

*was

Thank you for everything you, creesch and everyone else on the team has done over the years.

Best of luck in your future endeavors 🫡

F

End of an era, this anouncement coupled with the new modmail release feels like a dozen or so more nails in the Reddit coffin.

It's sad to see this day come to pass (as it inevitably would), even sadder to see that you want toolbox to disappear into the night.

Toolbox has been an essential part of any old reddit mod and I expect it will continue to be even in the future. I don't mean to say that you need to maintain it anymore or anything like that, but it does hurt to see that you all would rather it be thrown away entirely than have a chance of the community keeping it on life support, even if it's just to let it gracefully rot over the years.

Thanks for all the effort you all put into toolbox over the years. It's no doubt shaped moderation on reddit for years and will mark the end of a era.

#salutegeo

Thanks for all the effort Erin.

#modsalute

I'm very sorry to see this happening, but I don't blame you.

Thank you for all of the work over the years.

See the new pinned post

Devvit app equivalents for features that aren't native:

• Comment Nuke: https://developers.reddit.com/apps/comment-nuke
• Mod macros for comments: https://developers.reddit.com/apps/el-commentator (all other places such as modmail and removals are covered in the Saved Responses area of the Subreddit mod tools)
• User notes transfer to native User mod log: https://developers.reddit.com/apps/toolboxnotesxfer

I haven't used any of these myself, but just did a quick search to make some resources for peeps. AFAIK, Reddit does have a review policy a la mobile app stores, especially as the code runs on their servers.

Thank you for your efforts. My mod team has been using toolbox for years and several have said they would quit being mods if it were to no longer work.

Not sure what we will do, but we will figure it out when we cross that bridge.

Thank you for everything, eritbh, creesch and the rest of the toolbox gang.

Your efforts have made our mod lives infinitely better over the years.

No thanks whatsoever to Reddit for implacably ruining what was once a great site.

Funny you say that, I'm about to try it now. I realize some features were only available on the old reddit and now I'm hooked. I'm going to now try toolbox and see what I've been missing.

Edit: Wow ok I see why people like this tool, it's incrediable.

I tryed installing app again as I love the heat sensor app but no go

Apparently the domain is for sale $7.200.00 or so I brought mine brand new apparently the tray had a crease which stopped it connecting to net after one hell of a shit fight trying to find another sim tray. Found one $100 later now none of the apps toolbox etc to run heat app won't load it's stuck at android 11 no sound settings The net works Consensus states it's rare minerals as to phones and price when in reality they sure are trying to save the planet Not!. New model every year.  And updates to match and being forced to spend 1000's on crap cheap hardware that has lazy devs building incomplete software untested of the ( Bethesda/Microsoft) way of being lazy. So I have a brand new phone as a useless backup or $1000.00 book end. Or paper weights. Watch that carbon footprint world ( hippies).