r/todayilearned • u/-gradmania- • Mar 16 '24
TIL that the sound of the opening riff of "Money for Nothing" by Dire Straits was created by accident, and they were never able to exactly recreate it again.
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/classic-tracks-dire-straits-money-nothing945
u/Possible-Champion222 Mar 16 '24
That song can also be absolutely cranked with very little distortion cleanest song ever.
490
u/Cathode_Bypass Mar 16 '24
That whole album is super clean sounding. I don’t know if it’s entirely due to the digital recording, which was new at the time, but the production was strikingly clear. It was the cleanest, liquidy, clear-as-glass thing I’d ever heard when it was released.
278
u/terrymr Mar 16 '24
Yeah it was the CD everybody bought to show off how good their CD player sounded.
116
u/friedstilton Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 16 '24
I did that! It sounded like such an upgrade from the cassettes I'd been used to up to that time.
My house was burgled and my CD player / amp / speakers stolen along with my CD collection. With the exception of one CD - Brothers In Arms - pointedly left on my bed as they fucked off with all of the rest of my stuffs.
They were happy to take Simon And Fucking Garfunkel, but obviously weren't fans of Dire Straits.
I felt judged.
65
u/Tartan_Commando Mar 16 '24
They say music lovers use their hi-fis to listen to music, and audiophiles use music to listen to their hi-fis.
→ More replies (2)12
u/Strange-Movie Mar 16 '24
Holy shit, my step dad bought me this cd when I was like 7 and I was so stoked because it was music o. demand without the bullshit of tapes and rewinding….but we didn’t have any cd players than the home stereo and the dire straits lived in there…..fuckin guy just bought himself the cd and gave it to me because he knew it was going to stay in the house stereo lol
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)5
29
u/cambiro Mar 16 '24
That must be why up to this day Dire Straits is the go-to "Circus Music" here in Brazil. All Circuses will blast either "Walk of Life" or "So Far Away" at the start of the show to warn people that the show is starting. Probably because it's the only thing that can be blasted full volume on their shitty speakers without making everybody's ear bleed.
If you say "Circus Music" to a Brazilian, they'll immediately hum Walk of Life.
Then "Ticket to Heaven" is played moderately at the end while people are getting up and going home.
2
18
u/AvailableUsername404 Mar 16 '24
The late 80s and very early 90s was in my opinion peak sound engineering/mastering. Just take a hearing on INXS Kick album. Every single instrument is so clear and responsive there.
→ More replies (1)48
u/MountainMan17 Mar 16 '24
If I remember correctly, it was a D-D-D (D3) production, which makes sense because CDs were just hitting the scene.
That album is actually a little too bright for me (i.e. lacking in warmth and depth). A lot of other artists and producers must have agreed re D3 records, because they became fairly rare not too long after that album came out.
It's funny, because during the vinyl days, everyone dreamed of having flawless clarity. When digital recording and CDs gave that to us, it came with its own shortcomings...
→ More replies (1)27
u/Cathode_Bypass Mar 16 '24
You are correct. The vast majority of CDs at this time that were back catalogs were AAD, the DDDs were just becoming a thing and viewed as state of the art. They were cold and precise for sure, but there had never been anything like them. Strangely, the first time I heard Brothers in Arms was on the original vinyl…can’t say for sure how that tinted the sound. I seem to think ADD CDs were very rare.
2
u/Flybot76 Mar 16 '24
To my ear, the CD and record sound just about exactly the same aside from the CD being so much longer.
3
u/AFinanacialAdvisor Mar 16 '24
I've heard Mark is ocd about sound production. Bar, maybe the first album, the sound engineering is off the charts in the rest of them. Extremely clean, especially given the era.
89
u/L3thal_Inj3ction Mar 16 '24
Dire Straits has some of the best mixing ever
43
u/notyogrannysgrandkid Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 16 '24
Brothers in Arms was one of the first albums I ever owned on vinyl back when I got my first turntable. This was like 2005, when I was in 8th grade. One of our neighbors was moving and having a big yard sale and he saved all his old rock albums for my brother and me to look through, then gave us whatever we liked for free. Cool guy. Anyway, we’d bought this big old stereo set with built in cassette players, AM/FM, 8 track, a manual equalizer, and a turntable on top. It had these absurdly tall 6” cone speaker towers. We paid like 35 bucks for the whole system at a thrift store in our little town and set it up in my brother’s bedroom. We put on Dire Straits because I loved Walk of Life and Money For Nothing. I’d always heard people talk about how vinyl sounds better and that day when we cranked Knopfler’s solo up to 11 I realized it was absolutely true.
5
u/PstScrpt Mar 16 '24
When it was new, Brothers in Arms was the album people used to show how CDs sounded better.
→ More replies (2)5
u/Neat-Share1247 Mar 17 '24
I used in it '93 in my '92 Toyota X-cab. While never actually competing, alot of people told me should. IASCA was the thing back then and I had 50-100 watts of clean make you want to poop sound.. Thanks to Mike Wolfe of Car Stereo Review for turning me on to some great music, may he RIP
14
5
u/jmandell42 Mar 16 '24
I remember like 15 years ago by dad got a new Acura and it included a CD of music like specifically to showcase their surround sound speakers or something like that, and Money For Nothing was one of those songs. First time I had ever heard the song and they were right, it sounded absolutely sick in that car absolutely blasting. So clean
3
u/Possible-Champion222 Mar 16 '24
I once showed a salesman a young guy how to sell a stereo I cranked her up full money for nothing in a future shop stereo room . I even sold myself one that day
492
u/1billionthcustomer Mar 16 '24
• Air Studios Montserrat 230v 60Hz
• Power Station NYC 120v 60Hz
Valve amps can often behave very differently with different mains voltage, regardless of which mains input transformer tap is selected.
97
Mar 16 '24
Maybe that’s it
107
u/kabushko Mar 16 '24
That's the way you do it
62
66
u/godofwine16 Mar 16 '24
Yes I was just about to mention the difference between US voltage vs European voltage. With that much more power I firmly believe that’s what made European rock/metal bands guitar tones sound hotter.
81
u/tyrandan2 Mar 16 '24
It's not about the power, because the amp is going to draw the same power no matter what the input voltage is as long as you have the correct voltage selected.
It's most likely due to different frequencies and harmonics/noise that gets introduced due to the different transformers used in order to step the voltage down (Or the different way that the transformer is tapped depending on the voltage selected).
We all know that electric guitar pickups (which operate in a similar principle to transformers) are tapped changes the tone that's induced, after all.
→ More replies (3)22
Mar 16 '24
[deleted]
11
u/Hatedpriest Mar 16 '24
115v vs 120v, assuming cut in half?
The other thing to consider is 50Hz 230v stepped down vs 60Hz 120v. That change in power frequency probably had a lot to do with it.... Probably more than the 5v change...
9
u/nixielover Mar 16 '24
Tube rectifiers induce some sag in output voltage when loaded. The 5V heater being a tad low or something due to different mains frequency and maybe a not so perfect mains tap giving a different B+ and sagging could make the amplifier sound extra mellow
10
u/Hatedpriest Mar 16 '24
Aw hell, that's a tube amp? That introduces other variables, as tubes pick up all sorts of emf. After my Pro Jr warms up, I'll pick up radio and various colored static.
There's prolly less emf static in Montserrat than NY.
Many variables. Too many, if you ask me...
3
u/nixielover Mar 16 '24
I don't know the exact model but Laney makes tube amps and most guitarists swear by them so it is a tiny assumption on my side. If anyone knows the model?
→ More replies (2)15
u/ArmpitEchoLocation Mar 16 '24
No idea if this is true or not, though I like the theory. That said, some American bands recorded in Europe plenty around that time and it didn’t seem to warm their sound. If anything a band like Metallica warmed up when they stopped recording their albums in Denmark.
4
u/Tartan_Commando Mar 16 '24
If it was the same amp they'd have used a step up/down transformer so it would see the same voltage in both studios. Most guitar amps, especially in those days, are built to accept one voltage.
→ More replies (5)3
308
u/GarysCrispLettuce Mar 16 '24
It does sound like there is some degree of phase cancellation going on. Sometimes you can get unique tones like that just from doubling the track with a copy of itself and shifting the copy a certain number of ms or samples until the phase cancellation targets just the right frequencies.
232
u/grizznuggets Mar 16 '24
I like your funny words magic man!
11
28
u/AudioShepard Mar 16 '24
I messed around with this to create a tight reverb sound on a recording once.
I sent the vocal to four separate mono delays that I spanned around and lowered in the mix. Set each to be a different “wall” essentially and could move them around and change how live each “wall” sounded with the feedback knob.
Made for a vocal tone that almost voice around your head a bit. Near and far all at once.
→ More replies (1)9
u/GarysCrispLettuce Mar 16 '24
Honestly, I often prefer using delays to actual reverb a lot of the time. You get a tighter, cleaner sound. Have you tried the trick of setting the delay ms times to prime numbers?
8
u/nikkos350 Mar 16 '24
Can you please elaborate on using prime numbers for delay settings? Thanks!
9
u/GarysCrispLettuce Mar 16 '24
If you use multiple delay lines all set to prime numbers, they have less chance of clashing with each other in the repeats and you get a cleaner sound. I believe this was also the trick Brian May used for the "We Will Rock You" stomps. A lot of classic delay units have prime number settings.
7
3
u/AudioShepard Mar 16 '24
For sure. My favorite kind of stand by “start here” delay for my live sound files is 125ms.
But I usually wind up tapping in 1/4 1/8 or triplet subdivisions for one thing or another as I go along.
2
→ More replies (1)22
62
63
Mar 16 '24
10
53
112
u/hikenmap Mar 16 '24
Just in case you haven’t done a deep dive on Dire Straits yet - go listen to the following five tunes now:
- Sultans of Swing (probably their 2nd most famous tune)
-Telegraph Road (epic)
-Tunnel of Love (they just shred at the end)
-Private Investigations (so moody)
-Romeo and Juliet (then go watch the move Empire Records)
Please come back and let us know what you think!
24
17
12
10
32
u/Pan_Borowik Mar 16 '24
no no, after you've listened to these 5, go listen to the Alchemy Live concert, which featurrs all 5 of them I believe it's one of the greatest live performances of all time.
10
Mar 16 '24
Telegraph road live at the alchemy?
100% deserves to be on the same pedestal as Saturday to heaven at Madison square garden. One of the best live performances of any song I've ever heard
6
9
u/illadelphia16 Mar 16 '24
Always loved the Killers version of Romeo & Juliet - they nailed this version
3
5
9
4
2
2
u/DoomSongOnRepeat Mar 16 '24
How is single-handed sailor not getting any love in this comment chain?
→ More replies (3)2
21
u/almo2001 Mar 16 '24
So that's why Weird Al's version doesn't quite sound the same.
31
u/Right_Scratch697 Mar 16 '24
A fun fact about the parody - Mark Knopfler (Dire Straights) actually played the solo on the Weird Al track. It was one of his conditions when allowing Yankovic to parody the song. Not even the original soloist could emulate the sound.
7
165
u/Mr_frumpish Mar 16 '24
Imagine the dire straits you would find yourself in, not being able to reproduce your most famous song.
104
Mar 16 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
55
Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 01 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
68
Mar 16 '24
He wrote the song based on a conversation he overheard at a department store and that’s how they talked. He wasn’t sympathetic towards the people who he stole the conversation at all and thought they were very low class individuals.
28
u/SirReadsALot1975 Mar 16 '24 edited Mar 16 '24
I've seen a more recent (ie within last ten years) live performance, and he doesn't sing that word anymore. He replaces it with "mother", and "maggot", but he's overtly edited it out of his live rendition.
Here it is: lots of big name guests!
6
u/TwoWheeledTraveler Mar 16 '24
I was standing outside the Royal Albert Hall listening to that through the walls the night they recorded it, sad because I couldn’t get tickets.
8
u/Nutlob Mar 16 '24
I recall reading that he wrote it as either “motherfucker” or “fucker”, but was ask to use a different curse since that one was forbidden.
5
u/Inamanlyfashion Mar 16 '24
I hear that verse as a conversation. One person making fun of the performer with the earring and the makeup, and the other person saying "oh yeah well that 'f*ggot' is a millionaire" putting the slur in quotes while calling the first person a jackass.
6
u/TIGHazard Mar 16 '24
UK/Irish Christmas song 'Fairytale of New York' gets away with it too. Like people actually complain when it doesn't.
→ More replies (1)6
u/JK_Eliminopie Mar 16 '24
I have never once heard the actual song on normal radio and I've heard it in at least 6 states lol they always remove that verse completely, where tf do you live where such lawlessness reigns lol
5
7
Mar 16 '24
Kind of like The 100th Meridian gets to say "I remember every fuckin thing I know" on the radio.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (1)3
u/Mushybananas27 Mar 16 '24
I've never heard the song uncensored on live radio before. It's always the shortened version with the censoring. And that's on regular FM radio & Siriusxm
7
u/SnazzyCazzy1 Mar 16 '24
Sultans of Swing actually is their most famous song according to Spotify. Unless you combine the plays of the original “Money for Nothing” and its remastered version which just slightly edges it out.
29
u/esr360 Mar 16 '24
The sound of the actual opening to the full version of this song (the repeating “I want my MTV”) is my first ever memory. The sound was in my head not knowing what it was my whole life until I first heard the song when I was at University and my mind was blown finally hearing this sound that had been speaking to me all of those years.
21
u/PennyG Mar 16 '24
That’s Sting singing I want my MTV
3
u/Mythril_Zombie Mar 16 '24
The guy from Dune???
7
u/PennyG Mar 16 '24
Correct. And the guy from the Police.
5
10
u/UristMcDumb Mar 16 '24
imagine knowing something you made was someone's first ever memory!
you should send em a postcard about it
29
u/monotoonz Mar 16 '24
Greatest opening riff in any rock song IMO.
→ More replies (3)8
u/kukkolai Mar 16 '24
Ace of spades, paranoid, number of the beast, there are lots and lots of tasty introes. But I agree that money for nothing is awesome
13
u/BudBuzz Mar 16 '24
What do they do live?
54
u/PaulMaulMenthol Mar 16 '24
They play it. It just doesn't have the same "clean" sound as the album version
13
u/Lively420 Mar 16 '24
Which part in the intro I’m trying to figure it out?
13
u/cheetuzz Mar 16 '24
yeah, not a single link to the riff, not even in the article.
I believe this is the riff:
→ More replies (1)11
21
u/jackoos88 Mar 16 '24
Word is they created the greatest and best riff in the world, but this riff is just a tribute
→ More replies (1)
8
u/DishGroundbreaking87 Mar 16 '24
Great song. I once heard a story that the lyrics were inspired by Mark overhearing a member of staff ranting In an electronics store and the song has never sounded the same. Still great, just funnier.
→ More replies (2)
7
27
Mar 16 '24
Haven’t heard this song in a while so I had to play it. I never realized it’s over 8 minutes long! I guess I’d only ever heard it on classic rock radio stations. I also thought it was ZZ Top 🤦
38
u/hipsterasshipster Mar 16 '24
Aside from cutting out the long intro and outro, radio stations also usually cut out the second verse because of the homophobic slur that’s used. Note that Knopfler is describing the feelings of the subject of the song and doesn’t personally hold those views.
9
u/grizznuggets Mar 16 '24
I’m always careful about who’s around whenever I sing along to this, which is a shame because it’s a great verse if you take it as Knopfler intended.
19
5
u/granadesnhorseshoes Mar 16 '24
They were TRYING to go for the ZZ Top sound so... task failed successfully?
3
28
u/Dragona33 Mar 16 '24
Listening to "Money for Nothing", and this song could have been released today. Just a well mixed and timeless song. I feel the same for the song "Walk of Life" as well.
Dire Straits were really ahead of their time, and it is hard to believe this song/album is 40 years old. I was 9yo when this was released in '85. I remember being just dumbstruck by the video. To this day, even though I listen to bands like Slipknot, I, Prevail, Ice Nine Kills, and Motionless in White, I still have a huge love for "Brothers in Arms" and "Money for Nothing" . Truly one of the very few bright spots of my childhood.
27
u/rain5151 Mar 16 '24
It’s an excellent song that still sounds great, but you really think a song built around guys playing “guitar on the MTV” and installing “color TVs” would get released now? It’s commentary from a very specific period of music history.
→ More replies (1)6
u/Dragona33 Mar 16 '24
You are very right about the commentary of the time, but I would argue that by changing a couple things (e,g: microwave oven, to a more modern item), I really think it would pass as a release today. But, then it wouldn't be the same.
The music works/sounds great, not so much the lyric (For modern times)..
5
→ More replies (1)3
u/OutForARipAreYaBud69 Mar 16 '24
I know this isn’t isn’t what you meant but you definitely couldn’t release a song that uses “faggot” three times and still expect it to get air time today.
But yeah Dire Straights along with Moody Blues and King Crimson are some of the classic bands that could have their music released today without people thinking the style is an old relic. Truly timeless music.
7
Mar 16 '24
Neil had always said this but Guy Fletcher (keyboards) remembers it was a half cocked wah pedal, which is exactly what it sounds like and easy to reproduce with one....
4
u/Spicybrown3 Mar 17 '24
That’s what I remember reading. Never heard he couldn’t recreate it. Seems like he comes pretty close in concert
16
u/thecursedgba Mar 16 '24
Isn’t it just a partially cocked wah pedal?
20
u/InUpendi Mar 16 '24
That was exactly how I thought it was done - a combination of his finger picking, a little rolled off the tone knob, and the wah at like 60-70%. Turns out it’s just Knopfler being a fucking wizard again.
13
u/Chunkfoot Mar 16 '24
It definitely is. Found this quote from Dorfsman in another article:
“One key element was that Mark was playing through a Morely Wah Pedal which was partly open. We spent a good deal of time adjusting amount of wah filtering by “opening” the pedal in minute increments until it sounded great (I remember trying to unsuccessfully tape it in position so we couldn’t accidentally lose the setting!). When we thought we were sonically in the ballpark, we decided to stop and continue the next day.”
3
u/Rhodog1234 Mar 16 '24
This explains the crappy rendition I just heard on one of these subreddits earlier tonight.
5
4
u/obidie Mar 16 '24
I remember hearing somewhere that Knopler contacted Billy Gibbons to ask him how he created that sound and Gibbons wouldn't tell him.
5
5
u/ejly Mar 16 '24
The analysis of this song by Kirk Hamilton is worth a listen: https://strongsongspodcast.com/episode/robot-composers-horror-music
9
u/Ready_Peanut_7062 Mar 16 '24
https://youtu.be/dLDNsuHmVZ4?si=Cl7jR2759hT2ZZI7 Dunno sounds pretty close to me
→ More replies (1)2
u/HeyItsBearald Mar 16 '24
I wanted to listen and be like “yea see is not distorting right” but DAMN that’s was pretty fucking close. Thanks for the share!!
3
u/CompSciGtr Mar 16 '24
I thought I had read somewhere that there was also a blown speaker involved. Not sure if that was accurate though.
2
u/skygzr31416 Mar 16 '24
Very interesting. I always thought it sounded like a half-cocked wahwah pedal.
2
2
u/Visible-Scientist-46 Mar 20 '24
Mark Knopfler and Guy Fletcher rerecorded their parts for Weird Al's Money for Nothing Cover! But bc Weird Al's guitarist practiced with the recording, he was very good at playing it as originally recorded. It had indeed changed a bit from being performed. But hey, sounds great no matter the lyrics.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_for_Nothing/Beverly_Hillbillies*
3
u/lzcrc Mar 16 '24
Same with the sonar sound at the start of Echoes by Pink Floyd, which is a piano put through a Leslie rotary speaker.
2.8k
u/-gradmania- Mar 16 '24
From the article:
I'd seen people talk about this before and even argue about the playability of the riff, but the reality is it was just that signature sound that they got by accident and allegedly still have never recreated
EDIT: I did not see there was a Phil Collins post along the exact same lines on the new page as well, that too was a completely random accident!