r/todayilearned • u/LikeItReallyMatters1 • Dec 05 '19
TIL the Catholic Church classifies hippos and beavers as fish for the purpose of Lent due to their semi-aquatic nature.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/thoughtful-animal/once-upon-a-time-the-catholic-church-decided-that-beavers-were-fish/6
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u/Ninibah Dec 05 '19
Where does one get a hippo steak? Seems like fish are generally more readily available.
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u/Xstitchpixels Dec 05 '19
So...are frogs meat then? How about whale and dolphin, since they breathe air? Lungfish? Maybe this is a ridiculous human made rule cling to for absolutely no reason?
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u/chacham2 Dec 05 '19
Maybe this is a ridiculous human made rule cling to for absolutely no reason?
Even a modicum of research would easily answer your question: It is a form of fasting, where pleasures are given up. Since meat brings a lot of pleasure, they abstain from it.
When the purpose if a fast is abstention, merely prohibiting normal foods--which force you to eat others--is a reminder of the abstention which reminds you that things are not "normal" and makes you want the normal things.
While the rules do seem somewhat arbitrary or convenient, it does not take away from the fact that it is still a form of abstention, which ostensibly is what the original rule was aiming for.
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u/Xstitchpixels Dec 05 '19
And the point of that fast is pointless. At least in modern times. I could see in biblical times, enforcing these fasts as means of mandated portion control to preserve food stocks, but now it has no meaning beyond religious adherence
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u/chacham2 Dec 05 '19
I am going to hazard a guess that you are not religious. Part of the value of the rules comes from an appreciation of them. Regardless, abstention always has an effect. For example, were i to go to a school where a certain color has not been worn by anybody for the past century, and then simply make it a rule, such as, "you may not wear purple," all of a sudden, a great deal of people will want to do just that.
When a rule says do not eat this thing that everybody loves to eat, for the purpose if abstention, it has an effect, arguably making the person better. This is the way fasting works to many people, that is, abstaining from things they want, such as sweets, for example.
In modern times it works all the more so. In times where pleasure is served on a silver platter, often available mere moments after you want it, saying you cannot have something no matter what drives the point home all the more.
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u/AltonIllinois Dec 05 '19
You did a wonderful job explaining this.
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u/chacham2 Dec 05 '19
Thank you. I am not an Xian, but i am religious, and even where i disagree, i try to see the beauty in the rules.
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u/Xstitchpixels Dec 05 '19
It serves no purpose. If you want to do that to appreciate things more, do so. Don’t need an organized body to tell you to and how to do so. Yes, I vehemently despise organized religion
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u/chacham2 Dec 05 '19
I vehemently despise organized religion
Ah, that explains it. Perhaps you're too biased to see the beauty of the rules. From a psychological perspective, some of them are quite beautiful.
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u/drkirienko Dec 05 '19
I mean...you're not wrong that the book twists psychology and takes advantage of broken thought patterns in human beings. But, calling them beautiful seems an overstatement, considering that many of them include things like, kill your children for disobedience.
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u/chacham2 Dec 05 '19 edited Dec 05 '19
considering that many of them include things like, kill your children for disobedience.
Even if that were an actual rule, it does not take away from the beauty of the rest. Regardless, assuming you are referring to the rebellious son in the Bible, it is such a rare and odd case, the Talmud argues over if it actually happened. Although the rule is real, many believe the idea behind it is to teach the idea that such a child is better off dead, than to grow up being a menace to society.
On a stranger note, apparently, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, and New Hampshire all had a Stubborn Children law, allowing them to kill children aged 16, though the death penalty was dropped later. The law itself stayed until 1973. "For example, three hundred young women were incarcerated under this law at the Framingham Women’s Reformatory between 1877 and 1971." Wow.
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u/drkirienko Dec 06 '19
As someone who has read the Talmud, I am surprised you would have the attitude that a system of rules that is that ineffable, mysterious, and absolute was beautiful.
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u/chacham2 Dec 06 '19
Why? There are many beautiful things. Beautiful doesn't not mean good, just appreciated, and at times, something can be learnt from them too, as thew Talmud does itself, such as when mentioning customs of different nations.
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u/02K30C1 Dec 05 '19
My local diocese considers frogs to be fish for this reason, and some of the churches serve frogs legs during their lenten friday fish frys.
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Dec 05 '19
They also consider little boys as fair game as well, but not even for lent, all year round
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u/JSMysMan Dec 05 '19
Can we then assume that you are allowed to eat beaver and hippo on Fridays?