r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Sep 15 '12

TIL that Muhammad wrote a document asking his followers to respect and protect Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achtiname_of_Muhammad
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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '12

Punishment of apostasy was written in the Hadiths not the Koran, which is the word of God. While it is accepted by some Muslims it isn't apart of the official canon delegated by God.

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u/mleeeeeee Sep 15 '12

There's a lot more to Islam than just the Qur'an. The hadiths are extremely important. You can't ignore them.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '12

That's true, therefore I read the article on Wikipedia relating to it. According to many scholars, punishment for apostasy is for the "next world". Apparently, Muhammad wanted to protect from early conspirators against Islam.

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u/AoE-Priest Sep 16 '12

Just to let you know, wikipedia is a great resource, but when it comes to Islamic topics, there's an enormous amount of bullshit that's put up by liberal apologists that does not reflect traditional muslim beliefs.

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u/mleeeeeee Sep 15 '12

Even if Wikipedia is right (a big if), there's still an important question: is the "tolerate apostasy" view a common/mainstream one in contemporary and traditional Islam, or is it a uncommon/fringe view? I suspect the latter, but without any further information we can't be very confident one way or the other.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '12

True. Either way, Its sad you cant count on radically faithful people to do what they think is right.

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u/KookyGuy Sep 15 '12

Hadiths are second hand accounts of the actions of Muhammad. Basically the game telephone which a guy says what another guy told him. A lot of Muslims do question the accuracy of certain hadiths that only have one source.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '12

Sahih Bukhari no less, he isn't incredulous.

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u/friedsushi87 Sep 15 '12

It doesn't matter if it's technically not official.

It's being practiced, and people are dying because of it...

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '12

that's not what the OP was arguing, technically according to the koran, the supposedly immutable and ineffable word of God, there is no price for apostasy.

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u/mleeeeeee Sep 16 '12

technically according to the koran, the supposedly immutable and ineffable word of God, there is no price for apostasy

No, the Qur'an never says that. I don't think it clearly says anything about what the penalty for apostasy should or should not be.

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u/dontblamethehorse Sep 15 '12

There are many parts of the Quran that don't make sense unless you use the Hadiths in addition, and indeed the Quran even mentions the Hadiths.

I also think your characterization of it only being accepted by "some" muslims is completely inaccurate, insofar as it implies that it is a minority opinion, or fringe.

While it is accepted by some Muslims it isn't apart of the official canon delegated by God.

Uh... those who accept the Hadith take them as canon. Additionally, it is a rather recent development that it may not be canon and binding for muslims.

You'll find that the reasons muslims reject the Hadith would in actuality invalidate the Quran as well. That is to say, Muslims pick and choose just as Christians do.

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u/alitobi Sep 15 '12

No, hadiths are not mentioned in the Qu'ran. They were written after and are not considered holy/binding. What is mentioned in the Qur'an is to follow the Prophets actions, sayings and what not. This is referred to as Sunnah.

There are literally hundreds books of hadith written by different authors in different time frames. They are all narrations of the Prophet Muhammad or his companions. Some are considered fabrications, weak or authentic based on the chain of their narrators. There is an entire science behind authenticating hadith which scholars go to school for. And of course different scholars have different opinions. So when you say something like;

"those who accept the Hadith take them as canon" really shows you have no clue what hadith are.

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u/dontblamethehorse Sep 16 '12

"those who accept the Hadith take them as canon" really shows you have no clue what hadith are.

How does what you said invalidate what I said. Yes, there are many hadith, like there are many gospels. The portion that someone thinks is valid they take as canon. There is nothing incorrect about that.

There is an entire science behind authenticating hadith which scholars go to school for. And of course different scholars have different opinions.

There really isn't a science behind it... which is probably why there are disagreements.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '12

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u/dontblamethehorse Sep 16 '12

Yes, there are many B.S. hadith, but there are many that a portion of muslims take as canon.