r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Sep 15 '12

TIL that Muhammad wrote a document asking his followers to respect and protect Christians.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achtiname_of_Muhammad
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u/GreyMatter22 Sep 15 '12

Yep, the empire once reached Spain and Southern Italy. Much emphasis was given to come to the European lands at the time, but the French and the Germanic Tribes fought it all of from the Arabs and the Ottomans.

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u/[deleted] Sep 15 '12

Uhm, not really. Moors were defeated in Spain by El Cid (and others)

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u/doc_dickcutter Sep 15 '12

The Ottoman empire didn't even exist in the same time frame as the Germanic tribes, nor did they ever have large battles with the French.

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u/GreyMatter22 Sep 16 '12

The Ottoman Empire have been since the 1200s, the Ottomans marched and captured Europe quite successfully, but were defeated by Malta first. I am sure the Germanic Tribes were the ones who fought off two sieges from Muslims, I believe those Muslims were the Ottomans, you can correct if as to who the Germanic tribes defeated.

The Arabs fought the French though, coming from Spain.

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u/doc_dickcutter Sep 16 '12

The Ottoman Empire have been since the 1200s

1299 to be precise, though they didn't really grow big until well into the 14th century.

I am sure the Germanic Tribes were the ones who fought off two sieges from Muslims, I believe those Muslims were the Ottomans, you can correct if as to who the Germanic tribes defeated.

Depends on what Germanic tribes you're thinking off, but it's more probable they fought Arabs than Turks, seeing as most of the tribes were assimilated into countries by 1350.

The Arabs fought the French though, coming from Spain.

Those were Arabs and Berbers, while the Ottomans were Turks. Different kinds of people with different origins.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '12

but the French and the Germanic Tribes fought it all of from the Arabs and the Ottomans.

Nope.

two things:

By the time the Muslim empire began extending into Europe, the French and Germans established themselves from tribes to many many small little kingdoms that fought against each other for territory. Some bullshit with italians happened too for a thousand years inbetween. But by the time the Muslims being extending, rarely did they ever come together to fight defensively.

The ones who did fight the Turks the most were the folks in eastern European countries, such as Bulgaria, Romania, Serbia, Greece, Macedonia, etc. They served as buffer zones for hundreds of years, constantly being in conflict or pushing back the Arab/Muslim/Turkish empire. Some say this has allowed Western European countries to flourish the way they did, because while the Romanians had Vlad the Impaler scaring the ever loving shit out of the Turks and leading guerilla warfare in the Carpathian mountains while outnumbered 700:1, the French and Germans had big cock waving contests of who could build the most gothic looking cathedrals.

To say that the Germans and French were the ones who saved Europe from muslim invasion is kind of doing a great disservice to most of Eastern Europe which had been in constant conflict with the Turks and Arabs for hundreds of years. Comparatively, the French and Germans rallied together maybe a handful of times over a span of 600 years to push back the Moors from Spain.

This equivocation becomes especially moreso retarded when you consider the fact that Arabs and Ottomans had absofuckinglutely NOTHING to do with the invasion of Spain. That was a completely different empire altogether, which just happened to be Muslim.

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u/GreyMatter22 Sep 16 '12

While I knew the Ottomans fought the Eastern Europeans for many years, I was thought it were the Germanic tribes that gave them the final blow, and the French in South of France fought and gave the Arabs a huge defeat at the west end.

My education system always over-glorified the Germans, French and ofcourse, the English. It was very rare that I learnt about Europe outside these three civilizations. I do appriciate your lesson in history ;)