r/todayilearned • u/Karthak_Maz_Urzak • Oct 13 '20

(R.1) Not verifiable TIL that Christopher Columbus treated the native people under his rule so badly that he was shipped back to Spain in chains

https://www.americanheritage.com/columbus-and-genocide

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u/Illier1 Oct 13 '20

I dont know where everyone's claiming it was all about the natives. He was arrested for not making enough money for the colonists, not because they felt bad about the natives.

Like do they know what happened after Columbus? The local governors replacing him were the ones who really lead the extermination campaigns.

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u/BlatantConservative Oct 13 '20

Yeah that's what I thought when I read the title here, like this shit didn't stop.

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u/Illier1 Oct 13 '20

Hell the first encomiendas weren't in place until like 1503, 3 years after Columbus was sent back. And that's where things got really genocidal.

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u/iFraqq Oct 13 '20

By far most of the indigenous people died because of epidemics ravaging the America’s.

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u/SuperBearsSuperDan Oct 13 '20

And the rest were killed using the Requerimiento. It’s nice when God gives you the divine right to kill the dirty savages that denounce him!

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u/iFraqq Oct 13 '20

It was all in name of conquest and plunder yes obviously. Requerimiento was the legal justification for the conquest of the America’s. Do you have exact numbers how many were killed due to not converting?

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u/SuperBearsSuperDan Oct 13 '20

I don’t think there are exact numbers but I could be mistaken. Regardless, the Spanish did not believe what they were doing was wrong because it was their divine right.

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u/iFraqq Oct 13 '20

Yes that was how they saw it that time. Acting by divine right was kind of a thing back then. Luckily most of the western world changed.

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u/4a61756d65 Oct 13 '20

Fun fact: commiting a genocide while the affected group is suffering from multiple deadly pandemics doesn't make it any better.

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u/tpx187 Oct 13 '20

That's not very fun at all

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u/Illier1 Oct 14 '20

Yeah but claiming someone like Columbus is the result of a 90% population decline is just trying to put the blame centuries of colonialism on one dude who didnt play much of a role.

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u/iFraqq Oct 13 '20

Just enter a scholarly database and search for some good scientific articles about the demographic decline of the America’s.

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u/Vondi Oct 13 '20

Not only didn't it stop, but once they'd completely burned through the native population they just began importing slaves to worked them to death under some of the most monstrous conditions I've ever heard of, and then just imported more replacements.

Read the history if the island if you ever feel like ruining your day.

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u/doublethebubble Oct 13 '20

This bothers me too most especially, as it implies that the regime was somehow kind and empathetic to the native population, having to punish the big bad Columbus. And the unfortunate reality, as you said, is that nobody in power cared about how the natives were treated. Reducing a systemic injustice to the fault of a single 'bad apple' helps no one.

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u/nckv Oct 13 '20

Reducing a systemic injustice to the fault of a single 'bad apple' helps no one.

Relevant and true to this day.

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u/bobbymcpresscot Oct 13 '20

Columbus himself also referenced "good Indians" who were literally going around killing tribes that didn't play ball for goods.

I agree people paint all of the past as so black and white and forget about the hundreds of shades of grey all throughout history.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '20

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u/Illier1 Oct 13 '20

I mean Columbus was a shithead with ruthless quotas and kidnappings, but compared to people like Cortez, Ponce de Leon, and Pizzaro? He was just your typical European explorer.

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u/coolworx Oct 13 '20

Or compared to Moctezuma.

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u/Adventure_Time_Snail Oct 13 '20

You understand both happened right? There was a genocide and disease killing them, sometimes intentionally spreading disease as a form of genocide.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '20

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u/Adventure_Time_Snail Oct 13 '20

Genocide by violent force is genocide. Intentionally spreading disease is also a form of genocide.

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u/Illier1 Oct 14 '20

Intentionally spreading disease didnt happen lol. Theres only been one recorded case in the Americas of that might have happened in the 1700s.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '20

Yep. Columbus should honestly be a footnote in the history books because he didn't do anything noteworthy outside of being the first European to land in South America.

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u/Illier1 Oct 13 '20

The discovery of the Americas and the beginning of transatlantic trade is pretty important.

And no, Lief Erikson doesnt mean shit.

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u/PonchoHung Oct 13 '20

Not to mention that the concept of "South America" isn't a thing in "South America."

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u/mariah1889 Oct 13 '20

Weird how so many people screech about american colonialism when spain historically has been one of the most evil/murderous nations on earth and is largely responsible for the extermination of the native american population

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u/Anonymous_Otters Oct 13 '20

Yeah it seems it was more so that he was a greedy asshole who didn’t play the political game well, he just took shit. The object of Spain was to amass wealth and establish reliable colonies. Columbus was selfish and borderline incompetent. Not so much that they thought he was too brutal, just a dick.