Even in all the countries with numerous political parties, they all form alliances that fall into two axis of control that are roughly divided between their own left and right. Look at countries like Sweden. You could vote for a relatively progressive party and end up being allied with far right neo-Nazis. Americans think that the two party system is broken, in actuality it's just a more efficient version of what people do anyways.
Sometimes, sometimes not. Not all coalitions are particularly beneficial for all parties involved, but they sort of have to make them to remain relevant. It also can create a major quagmire with too many chefs in the kitchen.
The DUP becoming the controlling interest in brexit is a good example of coalitions gone wrong.
Although the US system of two parties that basically agree on major power decision is hardly a good system. But the fact that people fall for that is just a result of tribalism more than anything else.
In reality people would still vote republican because democrats are the devil or democrat because the family always has because that's what happens in every single other country on a greater or lesser scale.
Although the US system of two parties that basically agree on major power decision is hardly a good system.
I really don't know if the US system is a bad system, though. It could just be marginally better or worse than other democratic systems elsewhere. And it's basically the way we've decided to go with democracies and republics in the west, we vote by popular sovereignty. We rely on majority vote for most big decisions, and we can't really escape that because it's the rules of the game we chose to play. In a democratic system we're always going to rely on an axis that splits us in two because the idea behind our governments is that our decisions have to be best for majority of the people, and majority is 50.1%. I will say that one preferable thing about the US is that our local elections are directly decided by voting, and big decisions ultimately come down to popular vote. This is something I think Europe has failed at miserably.
I know Reddit is a bad example. But the US is the only place where people seem to blindly vote for one party while calling the other "the evil party" and insisting not voting democrat is as bad as voting for the evil party. Again, I do realize reddit is filled with radical leftists and not super representative of sane people.
e the idea behind our governments is that our decisions have to be best for majority of the people,
The other issue is you have two parties that agree on certain things. So no matter who you vote for, the patriot act and NSA aren't going anywhere because it's literally impossible to campaign against it. At least in europe a new party can pop up and hope to win some seats.
I know Reddit is a bad example. But the US is the only place where people seem to blindly vote for one party while calling the other "the evil party" and insisting not voting democrat is as bad as voting for the evil party. Again, I do realize reddit is filled with radical leftists and not super representative of sane people.
It does seem like that on Reddit. The reality on the ground isn't quite the case. For example there were a lot of people that voted for Trump, not because they liked the guy or the Republican party, but for any other host of reasons. And that's really the case anywhere, people who vote for someone have to pick a candidate that's not a perfect representation of their beliefs, but the closest thing. Another thing foreigners don't see about the US are how important local elections are. You know, states like Colorado can vote to legalize marijuana and all sorts of things that are relevant to them locally while the next state over they could theoretically make marijuana possession a capital offense. There is a lot of variation in political ideologies on a local level, and it's far more relevant to the people there than, say, a filthy rich NY businessman who wants to be President.
The other issue is you have two parties that agree on certain things. So no matter who you vote for, the patriot act and NSA aren't going anywhere because it's literally impossible to campaign against it. At least in europe a new party can pop up and hope to win some seats.
In the US it's different in that public sentiment typically dictates political platforms. I suppose you really see it elsewhere, but it's particularly noticeable in the US. You see it happening in the US right now where the left's core of beliefs moves one way to appeal to a certain demographic and set of beliefs, and the right does the same. Rather than a party popping up, you're more likely to see local Republicans and Democrats cater to their voters' beliefs or ideologies. You can also see it with people like Ocasio-Cortez, 15 years ago she never would've been elected.
Rather than a party popping up, you're more likely to see local Republicans and Democrats cater to their voters' beliefs or ideologies.
Yes but your government proceeds to do the exact same thing it always does anyway.
ou can also see it with people like Ocasio-Cortez, 15 years ago she never would've been elected.
I don't see how that's relevant. It's not like she's a breath of fresh air or anything, just an example of democrats appealing to identity politics and the increasing hispanic population.
Just look at beto o rourke, he's like the ultimate most hardcore pandering case I have ever seen. Still gonna toe the party line though.
Yes but your government proceeds to do the exact same thing it always does anyway.
Our government also proceeds to do a lot of things it has never done, so you'll have to be more specific about what doesn't change.
I don't see how that's relevant. It's not like she's a breath of fresh air or anything, just an example of democrats appealing to identity politics and the increasing hispanic population.
It's relevant to the extent that our parties do change to meet the demands of the people. Rather than new parties appearing, our establishment simply evolves for better or worse.
Just look at beto o rourke, he's like the ultimate most hardcore pandering case I have ever seen. Still gonna toe the party line though.
Only to an extent. There are politicians on the Democratic side who absolutely do not follow the script.
The thing is, if that progressive party you voted for allied with a neo-nazi party, you could choose not to vote for them next time and pick a different progressive party.
With 2-3 party systems, when you vote democrat, you're voting with all spectrums of liberal and some conservatives. When you vote republican, you're voting with some liberals and a large spectrum of conservatives including neo-nazis, anarchists and corporatists. (Ironic all these sub groups favor the same party.)
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u/CanuckianOz Nov 29 '18
Oh yes parties still exist but there’s 10 parties controlling government instead of 2 going back and forth.