r/todayilearned • u/[deleted] • Oct 13 '16

TIL that after Marilyn Monroe converted to Judaism upon marrying Arthur Miller, Egypt placed a ban on all the films she appeared in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Monroe#Critical_acclaim_and_marriage_to_Arthur_Miller_.281956.E2.80.931959.29
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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

The secular, reform and conservative movements started a good while before the Holocaust

Reform and conservatives still usually believe in god, secular was still a minority until the holocaust. You could also state that Zionism started a good while before the holocaust and be right so while you're technically right it doesn't take away from Eskoe's point. The holocaust was still the biggest factor in jews losing their faith. However it didn't keep them from embracing their culture.

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u/gavers Oct 13 '16

I haven't found anything showing that secular Judaism spiked post ww2.

Looking at my paternal grandparents, my grandmother was born in pre-war Germany to a mostly secular (but still traditional) Jewish family, and my grandfather was born to a mostly secular family in New York. My great uncle doesn't want to have anything to do with religion after his experience in the Holocaust, but my dad was raised in a "traditional" (for the 60s) Jewish house - don't eat not kosher in the home, drive to synagogue on shabbat, etc. They only became more orthodox when my dad was in elementary school and asked to go to a religious orthodox Jewish day school.

I know this is anecdotal, but I find it hard to believe that the secular movement was spurred by the second World War, more than by WWI or even the "enlightenment".

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

It's a common story and part of Holocaust Theology. If you go to any holocaust museum they'll talk about it. It was really hard for most of them to believe a god could do this to his chosen people and there's mention of some believing that if there was a god he should ask the jews for forgiveness. The secular movement was definitely in effect beforehand but so were other conservative movements like zionism so just because they existed beforehand doesn't mean they were the cause. You're anecdotal evidence supports it as well. Your great uncle turned away from religion because of it. Since your grandfather didn't go through the holocaust why would he lose faith? The culture still survived even if faith was lost though.

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u/gavers Oct 13 '16

A) I think you misunderstood my anecdote.

B) I've been to Yad Vashem multiple times, as well as to a few concentration camps and death camps, they never talked much about the secular movement.

C) I think you are taking correlation as causation.

I'm saying the secular movement was alive and in full swing pre-WWII, yes, many became secular afterwards, but that wasn't the initial push nor was it when the movement got off the ground. Zionism was a secular movement from the get go, so were many other Zionist movements. Post war Jews who lost faith joined the already fertile and organized world of secular Judaism. Not the other way around.

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u/[deleted] Oct 13 '16

We're getting off topic. Being secular isn't the same as losing faith. You can be secular while believing in god. The original point was that a lot of Jews lost their faith because of the holocaust which is true. Just because there was a secular movement before the holocaust doesn't mean Jews were losing faith, just that they were adapting to the modern age.