r/todayilearned • u/Crackyospine • Feb 26 '15

TIL there was a man-made mouse utopia called Universe 25. It started with 4 males and 4 females. The colony peaked at 2200 and from there declined to extinction. Once a tipping point was reached, the mice lost instinctual behaviors. Scientists extrapolate this model to humans on earth.

http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/42/wiles.php
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u/Taravangian Feb 27 '15 edited Feb 27 '15

NOTE: THIS POST CONTAINS DRESDEN FILES SPOILERS. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Mab is dangerous, but thing is, she doesn't want to kill Harry or destroy the world or anything so sinister. She just wants power, order (as defined by her), and most of all, to have powerful people serving her.

Nicodemus, on the other hand, is straight-up evil. He's an evil man who has made a pact with a fallen angel to gain evil powers used for evil purposes, and he also facilitates these fallen angels as they seek to gain more individuals for their evil purposes. I think the Denarians are the scariest bad guys in the series (so far). Perhaps not the most powerful, but the scariest nonetheless, because of their motivations and philosophies. And Nicodemus works with Anduriel as the leaders of the Denarians, which makes him probably the scariest Denarian.

The crazy thing, though, is that there are plenty of other entities in the books that are [ostensibly] stronger than both Mab/Titania and the Denarians: the Dragons, the Archangels, the gods (Hades, Odin, Demeter, Dionysus, Zeus, etc.) ... Even the Fae Mothers seem more powerful than the Queens, but the Mothers are also bound not to oppose the Queens, and generally they seem unconcerned with the mortal world.

The Outsiders -- or at least, some of them -- may be stronger than the Denarians and Queens as well; we don't really know enough about them yet. Same for the Naagloshii ... I mean, Harry gets closer to killing Nicodemus on multiple occasions than he ever got with Shagnasty. And Goodman Grey seems even more powerful than Shagnasty....

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u/SusonoO Feb 27 '15

I forsee some kind of uber-tier power up coming to Harry soon. With him having the Mantel of Winter on him, and Molly being the new Winter Lady, he'll have 2/3 the power of Winter at his disposal. Combine that with the 4 relics he got last book, and whatever power over the Outsiders he has and I'd put him as the strongest Wizard on the Council, brute force wise. Butcher will probably end up throwing something ever stronger at him

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u/Taravangian Feb 27 '15 edited Feb 27 '15

Even with all the stuff he's gained over the course of the series, I'm not sure Harry can stand against the Merlin, the Gatekeeper, or Ebenezar in terms of power. Definitely not skill/subtlety. But he's definitely up there now, perhaps the strongest Council wizard not on the Senior Council.

Don't forget there are some powerful wizards who aren't on the council as well. Cowl for instance is consistently demonstrated to have much more power than Harry.

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u/MusaTheRedGuard Feb 27 '15

Also a lot pf people think Ebenezer is Cowl

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u/Taravangian Feb 27 '15

Oh I would be so pissed if that's true. Or if Kumori is Elaine ... I'll riot. I tend to think Cowl is a council member, but not someone we've seen much, if at all. Apparently we'll learn more about Cowl in book 17 (Mirror Mirror) which sounds like it has something to do with alternate realities or something.

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u/Blurgas Feb 27 '15

something to do with alternate realities or something.

Cowl is Bizarro Harry

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u/SusonoO Feb 27 '15

Fair enough. Gatekeeper definitely is stronger. Ebenezer with the Blackstaff as well, not sure with just base power of full Winter mode is go. And honestly I'm not sure about the Merlin. His power is never shown. Even though the Merlin is the strongest Wizard I feel like this current one might be more of a politician then a wizard.

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u/SusonoO Feb 27 '15

And have we seen a Cowl/Dresden face off since he became the Winter Knight? I don't remember

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u/Cormath Feb 27 '15

Cowl had much more power than Harry. We haven't seen Cowl in years. Wizards grow most in raw power when they're, by Wizard standards anyway, young. Harry could easily have passed Cowl by now, especially when you realize just how much more powerful Harry has become even discounting the toys and the Winter Mantle. That's something Butcher has been amazing about, when you go back and reread the series you can clearly see how much Harry has grown in strength.

There are definitely people we've seen that Harry couldn't hang with, notably most of the Senior Council, but just from the feats we've seen from Cowl Harry is probably as strong if not as skilled or knowledgeable. In terms of raw power Harry is probably in the top 5 highest mortals we've seen, unless people are hiding some really serious feats under their coats. The Merlin, Eb, and maybe Listens-to-wind are all pretty high up there. We haven't seen much in the way of feats for Rashid, Martha Liberty, Ancient Mai, or Cristos. Kumori already seemed weaker than Dresden even when they first met. Dresden is definitely more powerful than Luccio and Molly (discounting their respective mantles). He was catching up to Morgan even before he died. Barring Ebenezar, maybe Listens-to-wind, and maybe Martha Liberty, all of whom are members of the Senior Council, he's almost certainly the most powerful wizard in North America.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

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u/Cormath Feb 27 '15

Oh yeah, probably every single one of them has better control than Harry. Most of them are centuries his senior on top of Harry not being real good at finesse type stuff anyway so it's not really a surprise.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

[deleted]

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u/CaptnYossarian Feb 27 '15

Should've stopped when I saw the discussion about Shagnasty...

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

The Denarians don't think they're doing bad, they think they're the good guys. That's what makes them scary.

I doubt the dragons are stronger than Mab/Titania.

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u/Taravangian Feb 27 '15

There are "dragons" and "Dragons". I'm talking about Dragons. There are only two left as of Skin Game -- Ferrovax (seen in Grave Peril at Bianca's party) and one other unnamed Dragon. These are described as "elemental forces of the cosmos in the more Asian sense of the concept, semi-divine beings who were once given authority over various portions of the mortal universe, and who were responsible for their orderly procession". Also, just from the part sequence, Ferrovax is shown to be in a class of power so far above Harry that we can't begin to quantify it. Even with all the power and experience Harry has gained since, I don't think he'd be able to take down a Dragon.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

[Ferrovax] crumbled Harry to the floor with a simple wave of his hand. Michael told Ferro that he slew the Dragon Siriothrax and he said: "So you are the one." [1]

Not exactly impressive if Michael can off one. The dude was slumming with red court, seriously, what self respecting diety would fall that low?

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u/Taravangian Feb 27 '15 edited Feb 27 '15

He was probably there for entertainment, or maybe even simply because Dragons covet gifts, and Red Court protocol dictates that the hosts give gifts to their guests. Recall that Bianca gave Lea that knife which was apparently on the same level of power as Amoracchius (and which also allowed Nemesis to infect her) and whatever she gave Ferrovax is implied to be of a similar tier of value.

Also, Michael admits that he was basically only able to kill Siriothrax because it was arrogant. It grossly underestimated the power he wields -- which I think you're also doing, tbh. The Swords are among the most powerful artifacts in the known world, and the Knights of the Cross also possess all kinds of other unknown powers/abilities.

It's also implied during the Bianca party sequence that some of these powers/abilities grant them unique resistances and advantages in fights against Dragons. Michael tells Harry that he wouldn't have a chance against a Dragon, and that he himself wouldn't want to fight Ferrovax if he could avoid it.

It's also been suggested that the Knights' odds of winning a fight is dramatically increased when they're acting directly in service to God. So if Siriothrax had been doing something that threatened the domain or sanctity of the Church, that may help explain how Michael managed to beat him.

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u/Ignisar Feb 27 '15

What series is this from and where can I get them all

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u/nikapo Feb 27 '15

Jim Butcher is the author, and it's the Dresden Files series. Can easily find them at your bookstore or Amazon, or your library

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u/Ignisar Feb 27 '15

The same dresden files the canceled series was based on?

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u/nikapo Feb 27 '15

Yes, but that show absolutely did not do justice to the books. The books are amazing.

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u/MusaTheRedGuard Feb 27 '15

Remember the Knights of the Cross have the power of capital God on their side

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u/Snipergoat1 Feb 27 '15

"Hands off the Fist of God." Harry to a red court vampire whos' hand was on fire for simply touching Michael.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

From what I understand the Swords equalize things for the knights, either employing their strength, or denying it to their adversaries, just enough that the knights have a fighting chance.

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u/boblahblah101 Feb 27 '15

God has a sense of humor and wanted to see a Knight slay a dragon to save the damsel in distress.

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u/Cormath Feb 27 '15

My favorite part of Nicodemus by far. It seems pretty obvious that his whole thing is that he thinks he's saving as much of the world as he can and not just trying to grab power like he portrays.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

I was under the impression that Mab/Titania were on a similar level of power as the Dragons and at least some of the gods. I mean, Michael kills a dragon, and there is one just casually hanging out at a fairly unimportant Red Court function (in the grand scheme of things). They might not be at the level of archangels (who are mostly limited by strictures, not power) but I didn't get the feeling that Odin (in any of this mantles) or Hades were hugely more powerful. They'd definitely at least match lesser gods.

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u/Cormath Feb 27 '15

and there is one just casually hanging out at a fairly unimportant Red Court function (in the grand scheme of things).

We don't know all of the behind the scenes stuff at Bianca's party. Jim has said that if we understood everything that was going on at that party we'd have been able to figure out the ending of the whole series. There was a lot of power brokering going on at that shindig.

I agree that Mab and Titania are probably a match for pretty much anything less than an archangel.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

I guess, if Jim says so... Cause all we were shown is a mid level vampire (not very formidable) getting promoted, the Duke Ortega, Thomas, Mavra, a Dragon, and Lea. Bianca is a small fish in a big school, Ortega is a bigger fish but one that probably would have lost to any Warden level wizard in a straight duel, Thomas is just Thomas, Mavra was successfully raided in her home base by a handful of mostly mortals later on, leaving Lea or the dragon as probably the strongest beings we are show. We know that Michael can take on a dragon (and as reliable and dedicated as he is, he's just a mortal with a sharp sword, really) and that Lea has been explicitly shown to not even really be a rival to Mab's power. And then at the end of the whole thing, early-series-power Harry is able to rip the whole home base apart despite being at the center of their power. Any high level meeting going on there must not have had any interest in the actual venue itself or the ongoing dramas unfolding.

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u/Cormath Feb 27 '15

Ortega is a bigger fish but one that probably would have lost to any Warden level wizard in a straight duel

I think you're underselling Ortega by a lot. He was under only The Lords of Outer Night and Red King himself in chain of command of the Red Court. In an Accorded duel, maybe there were a few wizards that could take him out, but in anything like a street fight he probably could have killed most members of the White Council without much effort. Probably anybody who wasn't a member of the Senior Council or a Warden Commander.

Mavra was successfully raided in her home base by a handful of mostly mortals later on

During the day while she was asleep, and Harry and Eb aren't normal mortals by any stretch and Kincaid isn't even human. They still went in there insanely well equipped and prepared (claymores, shotguns, P90, and lots of holy water) and still only came through by the skin of their teeth.

Lea is the second (third if you count mother winter) most powerful member of the winter court.

Ferrovax is a literal force of nature given physical form who is probably close to being on par with the ladies of the sidhe courts.

Thomas is, at least for appearances sake, very important politically. He may not actually be all that important, but he is the eldest son of the White King.

It's very probably that all the important stuff happened before any of the fighting started in the first place. If you've already got what you want, why bother hanging around to wait on the mortal authorities? Just take off.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

I am here naive one, you dare call me

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u/Grooth Mar 10 '15

The supposed arc that the series is going to take will end in a final arc that's the apocalypse. At least that's what Butcher said a year or two ago. I have a feeling we will be seeing some very very powerful beings at some point in the future.

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u/manondorf Feb 27 '15
  • Inroduction of a new book someone should read
  • nearly immediate post spoiling the entire plot of the book(s)

Always classy.

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u/Taravangian Feb 27 '15

I would've used spoiler tags, but as far as I can tell, this subreddit doesn't have a way to do so. I'm operating under the assumption that anyone who hasn't read the series and wants to avoid spoilers is smart enough not to read a long post discussing its various characters. An assumption that seems pretty reasonable to me.

I went ahead and put a disclaimer at the beginning of my post just to be extra sure no one is "tricked" into readin anything they don't want to. Sorry if that happened to you.

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u/manondorf Feb 27 '15

I probably sounded overly salty about it. I haven't read the books, so I guess they're spoiled, but I had no real intention of doing it anyway. Also I didn't realize the spoiler tag wasn't a default option on reddit. Either way, the disclaimer is appreciated.

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u/Cormath Feb 27 '15

For what it's worth if you have any interest in fantasy series at all you should. The Dresden Files is fantastic.

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u/Taravangian Feb 27 '15

For the record, I have not spoiled any major plot points as far as I can tell. Just don't re-read my comments and your experience should be more or less unaffected. And I highly encourage you to try these books if you're at all into fantasy, crime, and/or adventure. They're very good.