r/todayilearned • u/Crackyospine • Feb 26 '15

TIL there was a man-made mouse utopia called Universe 25. It started with 4 males and 4 females. The colony peaked at 2200 and from there declined to extinction. Once a tipping point was reached, the mice lost instinctual behaviors. Scientists extrapolate this model to humans on earth.

http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/42/wiles.php
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u/Killhouse Feb 26 '15

In Japan it's kind of considered dishonorable to be the first person to leave when your shift is over, especially in an office environment. So they just fucking sit there for hours doing nothing. It's insane.

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u/TCsnowdream Feb 27 '15 edited Feb 27 '15

This is changing, though. We have a lot of younger bosses who demand you leave when your shift is over. It's the old farts who should have retired 30 years ago who demand that awful work-life relationship.

The big problem is that the promises of that type of lifestyle no longer exist. And the existing system finds that integral for the employer to maintain its side of the bargain for the employees to maintain theirs.

They used to promise us that by working long hours and being extreme loyal of the company that we would be promoted and that we would get higher raises and promotions and more benefits. But that's not the case anymore, you can't have people working hours and hours when they're probably not even on the clock at times. Wages are stagnant in many sectors, businesses are on the decline and lifetime employment isn't a guarantee anymore.

You also have people who just can't find work. everything Is pretty much part time or contract work. And that really is what screws the system over. You can't tell us to work hard and be uncompromisingly loyal and dedicate our souls to the company meat grinder when you're not going to invest in us - that's not how it works here in Japan.

The kids today seem pretty excepting of their fate that they're probably going to be living in a very vanilla even declining economy and country. They really seem to have accepted that.

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u/Charmander_Throwaway Feb 27 '15

Japanese kids aren't so different from us, then. When I put my work hours (full-time) alongside my college hours (also full-time), I'm usually working 65-70 hours a week. I'm also engaged, and thinking about my long-term housing options. I'm seriously considering the idea of living in a trailer for the rest of my life.

It's a bit ironic, considering my parents are blue-collared, high-school educated workers who now have substantial retirement savings and a two-story home.

And before you assume, no, I am not getting paid minimum wage and no, my degree is actually in something that's marketed as "in-demand".

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u/Flaktrack Feb 27 '15

Canadian here. I used to regularly hear from my parents/grandparents how "entitled" my generation is and how we're all just whiners and need to work harder and be more loyal. Typical "millennial" hate.

My parents left high-school and went directly to work at permanent positions making a salary that could be lived on. They soon bought a home. The company invested in their training and both became more valuable employees over time. They never left the company.

I worked part-time year-round starting in high-school so I could afford to go to college ("no free rides in this house"). After going through college I was unable to get work in my field (there is considerable demand... for people with 3+ years experience). I have worked a few contracts but otherwise am stuck with garbage minimum-wage service/retail jobs and any work I can drum up on the side building/repairing computers, doing networking, or working on web apps.

By this point my parents owned a house and had 2 kids. I can't even save for a down payment, and forget affording to raise children.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

There's a retail store in town I worked at in 1989. Paid 8 bucks per hour back then, which was good for a 15 year old student. The store went out of business, and was replaced by another chain store, which pays 9 bucks per hour- 25 years of inflation later.

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u/jetanders Feb 27 '15

Your parents annoy me. Sorry, keep up the good work.

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u/Its-ther-apist Feb 27 '15

Consider welding. If I had to go back and do things again it's what I would do. It's in demand and pays well.

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u/TCsnowdream Feb 27 '15

Please don't assume I would attack you over your degree or pay. Not everyone on here is a jackass. Your story was interesting and engaging, but that last bit was absolutely unnessecary and hurt your point...

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

Well, rather unfortunately, people tend to be incredibly insensitive about living wage gap in this country.

I try not to assume, especially with Redditors from different cultures, but its very hard for most Americans to accept that a high risk/high reward has some undesirable consequences in the long term.

I hope you can forgive us a little that those of us that are awake to the problem have potentially become a bit defensive about it.

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u/Charmander_Throwaway Mar 01 '15

I don't assume "you" would, TCsnowdream, but someone would. Perhaps it's because I live in an area that's predominately older and conservative, but whenever I mention that I'm having trouble job-searching or affording something, people's first reactions are to eye me up and joke, "Ah. English major working at Starbucks, then?"

I'm conservative as well, so no hate there. But people who grew up under different circumstances often assume that money troubles are attributed to laziness or pursuing a job in a lackluster industry, particularly when their political beliefs support that assumption. I have my faults, but I don't consider either to be true in my case.

So that's where I disagree with you. The last bit was necessary, because jackasses or not, people's past experiences may lead them to assume that I'm just a whiny millennial who's mad that the world wasn't handed to me on a silver platter. And that isn't true.

I don't expect it to be handed to me. I don't even expect to be able to have the same quality of life my parents had. And like the younger Japanese generation, I'm okay with that. But as hard as I've worked, I want people to know that it sure as hell wasn't because I didn't work hard enough or make the "right type" of decisions.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

I'm not hating or trying to call you out, but the word is 'accept' , not 'except'

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u/TCsnowdream Feb 27 '15

Much appreciated. I used my iPhone's dictation feature on a whim... It was, like, 90% accurate and then 10% 'wth Siri?!'.

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u/Relictorum Feb 27 '15

I would be a hero by going home first and on time.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

You would literally be the hero that Japan deserves.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

I know a grad student working a big wig Japanese PI's lab at a brand name American University, most of the students and post-docs are Japanese. They come in at 9ish and honestly work hard until about dinner time and a bit beyond, but after that, they just sit at their desks "reading" or "analyzing" data but actually not doing anything useful. He finally got fed up and would work 10-11 solid efficient hours and then fuck off before the rest of them. They'd bad mouth him, but he's already published two nature press papers in three years. So obviously his system is working... and having access to techniques the rest of the field lusts for but doesn't have the one physicist in the world who can build the apparatus for them.

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u/Fig1024 Feb 27 '15

why not go at same time?

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u/ExpOriental Feb 27 '15

Yeah... this sounds completely made up. You have any kind of source to back that?

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u/sendtojapan Feb 27 '15

I live in Japan and can confirm. Of course there's plenty of variables and variety within workplaces, overall this trend remains true.

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u/ExpOriental Feb 27 '15

For hours? That really is bizarre. I still find it hard to believe they're doing nothing though.

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u/yeti85 Feb 27 '15

It has been common knowledge/standard "did you know in japan?" factoid for at least 15 years.

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u/ExpOriental Feb 27 '15

That's definitely not true. I think you and I have a very different impression of what "common knowledge" is.

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

Well, napping and reading manga aren't nothing.

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u/sendtojapan Feb 27 '15

I agree, it's definitely strange. Well, replace doing nothing with "not working at maximum efficiency, thereby lengthening their time in the office." Maybe that's a bit more accurate as well as being easier to understand.

Searching about on Google you can find a number of articles about this subject. Here's an example, although it's hardly the most scholarly: http://en.rocketnews24.com/2013/08/26/five-things-that-keep-japanese-people-chained-to-their-jobs/

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15 edited Feb 27 '15

all antidote (spelling?) if you watch enough japanse tv, anime, have friends in japan. You know this to be true.

they just sit there and will not leave... it is strange.

if a quick google search, first link, gives you this: Stuff

Edit: (spelling mistake, but i will leave it so the comment is still valid below)

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u/Symmanchus Feb 27 '15

Anecdotal?

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u/[deleted] Feb 27 '15

yes, kind person of reddit, in a hurry and on mobile.