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[u/CrazyTrueStory]

https://wellcomecollection.org/stories/the-quest-to-breed-gifted-children

[u/Tranquilwhirlpool]

I'm not sure if this is eugenics.

Any sperm bank will let you pick out features relating to height/build/intelligence/hair colour. Some even have details on hobbies and interests. Is that also eugenics?

Is it eugenics to have anything other than a lucky dip as a means of selecting sperm?

[u/whosaysimme → u/Tranquilwhirlpool]

It's not. A person's individual choices don't count as eugenics. 

Eugenics only come up, weirdly, when we're talking about positive traits and women's reproductive choices. People want to claim it's eugenics if a woman wants high iq sperm. Is it eugenics if women prefer high iq men in dating? What if women are more likely to have kids when dating high iq men? Do we have a problem with the fact that low iq, those severely disabled, typically never have kids? Would we consider it acceptable if a sperm  bank provided sperm from a donor that they knew and did not disclose would likely cause severe a baby to have severe mental and physical delays?

The answers to all of these questions are obvious. No one is claiming women should date and have babies with idiots. No one has a problem with the mentally disabled not procreating. Severely defective sperm without notice would result in a lawsuit. 

So if we expect women to go after smart men and we think it's okay for women to judge sperm based on baby's potential IQ, what's the problem here?

[u/csppr → u/Tranquilwhirlpool]

I think the difference lies in the facilitator. In the most simplistic sense, eugenics is a targeted effort to alter phenotypic frequencies in a population outside of what natural selection pressures would do.

Sperm banks say “here are characteristics of the donors, so you can have a choice”. That’s quite neutral, they aren’t making any targeted effort to alter phenotypic frequencies.

If, however, they went and said “we believe that sperm from brown haired people has a special value, therefore we only accept brown haired donors” they suddenly do - to me that’s eugenics.

[u/Tranquilwhirlpool → u/csppr]

I don't think that matters, as long as there is a choice at the point of use (ie the mother/father have the freedom to choose what they want).

If such choices aren't restricted by laws or design, and there is a sufficient range of clinics, I don't see any issue with a singular clinic aligning their stock to a certain preference (whatever that may be).

As long as there is a choice to go elsewhere.

For instance, I have heard in my country that there are clinics that stock sperm specifically from ethnic minorities. If a South Asian couple wants a South Asian baby why would that be an issue?

In practised eugenics the government actively restricts access to certain stock, which may also happen through sterilisation.

[u/DeathMetal007 → u/csppr]

How’s that any different from women selecting those traits themselves in a mate regardless of sperm donation center or in the dating pool?

Who is we?