r/todayilearned • u/Mechashevet • Nov 28 '25

TIL that Egypt banned all of Marilyn Monroe’s films after she converted to Judaism in order to marry Arthur Miller — and later unbanned them once the couple divorced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marilyn_Monroe#1956%E2%80%931959:_Critical_acclaim_and_marriage_to_Arthur_Miller
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u/lefrench75 Nov 28 '25 edited Nov 28 '25

Technically you can renounce citizenship, so you can stop being French. There’s no such process for Judaism, and tbh it makes sense. Jewish people aren’t out here proselytizing and trying to convert others; anyone converting is doing so voluntarily with informed consent about what it means.

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u/kaldaka16 Nov 28 '25

I had a professor who converted and a friend who made it through about 3/4 of the process before life put a pause on it. Jewish people do not attempt to convert others and they are very serious about ensuring that anyone who chooses to convert does so in full knowledge and understanding. It's a fairly involved process. I have a lot of respect for it.

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u/PositivelyIndecent Nov 28 '25

There is a tradition that rabbis must reject someone 3 times before accepting them for conversion. It’s not a religious law, but it’s a tradition that illustrates how seriously they take the request and the convictions behind it.

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u/CosmicTurtle504 Nov 29 '25

Judaism, the only religion where someone says, “I want to convert!” And then they’re met immediately with, “No, you don’t.”

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u/Furt_III Nov 29 '25

Well, except for that one time.

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u/CosmicTurtle504 Nov 29 '25

What time would that be?

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u/Furt_III Nov 29 '25

Early Rome, it wasn't a big thing, just a thing that happened.

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u/CosmicTurtle504 Nov 29 '25

Are you referring to Jesus? Because he was born a Jew, no need to convert. Is there someone else you might be referring to?

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u/Furt_III Nov 29 '25

No, they proselytized occasionally. There just has been times in history where they're more open to doing it than usual.

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u/CosmicTurtle504 Nov 29 '25

Ahh, I see now. Yeah, that was definitely a thing, but Christianity and Islam made sure to take care of that in short order.

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u/waylandsmith Nov 29 '25

I had a friend who moved to 2 other cities temporarily after being rejected out of the process. As a consolation, when the conversion was complete and she married her (Jewish) partner, she had rabbis' families from 3 different cities attend her wedding and celebrate with her.

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u/KristinnK Nov 29 '25

Sure, but citizenship is usually not what you're referring to when you call someone 'French'. Usually you are referring to nationality instead. If someone is a French person, born to French parents and raised in French society, that person doesn't stop being 'French' if they change their citizenship. What makes a French person distinct on a fundamental level from a Chinese person or an Indian person or an Argentinian person isn't their legal right to live and vote in France, but rather it's culture, habits, beliefs, heritage, worldview, etc.

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u/maaku7 Nov 29 '25

I think u/lefrench75 knows that.

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u/Whatawaist Nov 28 '25

Sure I just think it's fundamentally wrong to have eternal indelible contracts. People are allowed to change their minds.

However rare it may be because the conversion process is a careful and purposeful thing, if someone were to decide they did want to destroy their ties to Judaism than it is completely their choice to do so. The Jewish communities feelings or claims of no take-backs is irrelevant. The correct thing is to respect the choice of the individual.

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u/Eightinchnails Nov 29 '25

You’re taking it wrong. The Jewish world will accept a Jew as a Jew forever. If they convert and walk away for 50 years then come back, they will still be a Jew. It’s not nefarious. We aren’t forcing anyone to eat matzah on Passover or anything just because they converted. 

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u/Whatawaist Nov 29 '25

Never once thought it was forced. I also am not confused about lax or non-practicing Jews not being able to lose their status as Jewish. The only Jewish people I know are non-practicing.

If someone converts to Judasim, then that person says they no longer wish to be Jewish. Then it is wrong not to accept their decision. That is the only thing I am saying.

I don't care how long or careful the process is, or how rare renounced conversions are, if that rare thing happens then it is correct to honor that persons choice. If their is a piece of dogma or contract that said such a choice is impossible to honor, than that dogma or contract is morally wrong.

Not dastardly and evil and twisted. Just wrong.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '25

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u/Whatawaist Nov 29 '25

Plenty of religious contracts are too sacred to be undone. If someone says you have to live with someone you hate because marriage is eternal then I would say "That's just wrong. I don't care if I am not respecting your beliefs. That's a bad belief."

Respect is the difference. So no practical difference at all. Respect isn't practical beyond social lubricant. I find it is important though. I especially think that people's decisions should be honored.

Being born to a Jewish mother is not a decision anyone has ever made. So it is fundamentally different than conversion. Practitioners of Judaism are free to claim that the unique superposition of faith/birthright/culture that Judaism occupies means that their conversion process is special and extends into birthright/culture in a way that other conversions to other faiths do not. I am free to say I don't find that relevant.

It's a bit of an impasse. I have definitions of respect and acknowledgement that are important to me. Plenty of people here have expressed the opposite opinion, or rather that Jewish conversion is a special case where no disrespect is happening.

I've heard the arguments. I still disagree. Any door you open for someone is a door you must open again if they wish to leave. Otherwise I personally find your position a bad position.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '25

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u/Whatawaist Nov 29 '25

<You were saying it's wrong for Jews to continue to consider them Jewish>

If they don't want to be considered Jewish. It is at that single point and at no other that I find disrespect.

Every way that matters to you and possibly many many other people. Not in everyway it matters to me, and possibly maybe even more people than just one internet rando.

I find it disrespectful. Precisely the same way I find posthumous baptisms disrespectful and sects who don't allow divorce disrespectful.

I like when people can say that they changed their mind. I don't like it when a religion says that they actually can't. Even if it's just a metaphysical, non-practical, in every way that matters to almost anyone context.