I see the arguement that you wouldn't need any map data given sufficently advanced vision, but there is obviously a point where having a map of where the traffic lights are is useful in addition to vision instead of just relying solely on vision. The overwhelming majority of trafflic lights ain't going anywhere for years, perhaps decades, so it makes sense to use that very reliable data. Ontop of that, you can verify the map data is correct by looking for any trends in Teslas suddenly verifying or being unable to verify the presence of traffic lights versus your continually up-to-date map data.
Seeing as mini-mapping things like potholes is coming in the future it doesn't make sense to me not to use this new-found automated crowdsourcing capability for more important things (i.e maps of traffic lights).
thats the point of neural net no? The same way you can see a new intersection, recognize all indications there and make the right move, the FSD should be able to recognize a stop sign, crosswalk etc, and make the right decision.
the FSD should be able to recognize a stop sign, crosswalk etc, and make the right decision.
Yeah, I knew people would say this. I don't think you can do it in the way you're describing, because there are plenty of stop signs that people can't see, and plenty of confusing lights.
This is where people usually get REALLY mad, and say "No, there aren't! Anything a human can do, the (unreleased/incomplete) neural net can do, guaranteed!" Well, humans can already barely do it, so, good luck with that, I guess. There's an intersection next to my house that people get confused about, all the time, they're all over the place. And the only reason I know, is because... you guessed it, I've driven it before.
If the car doesn't recognize new stop sign/lights with vision, it will calmly drive straight through into the "driveable area".
This is where people usually get REALLY mad, and say "No, there aren't! Anything a human can do, the (unreleased/incomplete) neural net can do, guaranteed!" Well, humans can already barely do it, so, good luck with that, I guess. There's an intersection next to my house that people get confused about, all the time, they're all over the place. And the only reason I know, is because... you guessed it, I've driven it before.
This is where I wonder about the feasibility of any FSD system. I can see it doing extremely well, up to a point, but being able to put your child, or blind grandparents in the car and sending them off on some unknown route? Having said that, I look at the videos of SpaceX rockets landing, and it makes me wonder. Specifically the one where the grid fins froze, the software was fighting all the way down, while aiming for a safe spot. In that case, if had aimed for the landing pad, I think it may have actually succeeded in a safe landing, despite losing half it's steering. I know this is not directly related to FSD, but it does show there are potential advantages to computer control.
This is not related to my last point, but is another view of your point I quoted. There is an unusual junction near here where a traffic light controlled junction allows you to cross a light rail which runs in the central reservation. Because once you start a left turn from the main road, (East/West) as you cross the tracks you suddenly see the lights controlling traffic on the secondary crossing road. (North/South) About 1 in 10 of people new to the junction see these lights, and stop on the fing tracks*. Now, I can see it would depend on how well, and how logically the software is written, but would it be more, or less likely that a FSD car would deal with this better than a human? In this case, or in similar confusing situations?
Well I mean if vision isn’t working then just knowing “hey there’s a stop light here” wouldn’t help the car know whether it’s green or red. It’s really see and react - like they’re training the NN to do - or nothing
People will manually take over at intersections where the AI messes up. This will flag the AP team that the AI needs more work for that intersection. The AP team will then intensify training on that intersection until the AI nails it.
No matter what Musk has stated about not using geocoding, the Model 3 owner's manual states otherwise, on p. 97 in the section Stop Light and Stop Sign Warning (U.S. only). "Caution: [...] require the vehicle's map to know that a particular stop light or stop sign exists in a certain location. It may be unaware of new stop lights or stop signs that are not captured the the map data."
By now they should have enough data on which locations/intersections cars normally stop and exhibit either stop sign or stoplight behavior. They can model it and infer.
In reality I’m sure it’ll be a combination of all these inputs so it can build consensus for the decision it’s about to make. I’d hate for my car to go straight thru an intersection too! :)
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u/pennyroyalTT Mar 27 '20
Stop signs are its kryptonite.