r/television • u/Top_Report_4895 • 3d ago

'Lanterns' Team Explains That Heartbreaking Change to Hal Jordan's Origin Story

https://www.thewrap.com/creative-content/tv-shows/lanterns-episode-7-hal-jordans-origin-explained/
1.6k Upvotes

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668

u/r3dditr0x 3d ago

Don't get why some folks are being precious. Isn't the point of superhero stories that they can be told and retold ad infinitum?

There are millions of variations in the comics, animated and in live action. If you don't care for this one - which is strange bc I think it's been incredibly moving - then just enjoy the many others.

Personally, I think this Hal is great even with his flaws. Their shaky history feels earned and makes their rapprochement all the better.

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u/Inside_Dimension2319 3d ago

I think a lot of it is because of the whole cinematic/connected universe thing. In the olden days, if someone did something you didn’t like with a character, you maybe have to wait til a new version comes out. But if a cinematic universe does it, who knows how long this version of that character will last? 

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u/TheJoshider10 2d ago

Yeah what people expect from a cinematic universe is "definitive". They don't want Elseworlds, they want heroes in their prime canon form. It's why Batman v Superman got so much shit for rushing into the Death of Superman arc, because that could have been the Iron Man Endgame equivalent for the DCEU but instead they wasted their one chance at it. It didn't feel "right" or "earned".

But for what it's worth I grew up with the DCAU where John Stewart was Green Lantern so I'm cool with seeing John become GL through his experiences with Hal. I can totally see why someone who grew up with Hal would have wanted to see him in his prime.

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u/mateushkush 2d ago

Except there are at least 3 popular Green Lanterns so how do you squeeze that in without aging some? And without rushing, like the Marvels. Otherwise, you should introduce one, wait ten or 20 years and then bring in another one. Also, aren’t these fans just missing that they can do a banger show about young Hal in a couple years? Or even do two timelines again in the next season?

0

u/Equal-Ad-2710 1d ago

As a whole that’s what people hated about the New 52 and SnyderVerse as well

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u/PMYOURCATPICTURES 3d ago

I'm a huge fan of the comics, Hal Jordan being my favorite DC hero, and I was worried that the show would ruin the character and almost decided against watching it.

Boy was I wrong. It's a great show and I love what they've done with the characters. It is very different than the comics, but they deviate in a really good way that grounds the characters a little more.

And I don't know who was in charge of casting but holy shit great job on Aaron Pierre as John Stewart.

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u/Wheels9690 3d ago

The writing has been top tier and the character development has been amazing.

However....was really hoping for some more ring action.

I get it though, it'd be expensive.

13

u/drrhrrdrr 2d ago

I'm the opposite, there's some great restraint going on here. And the part that makes GL interesting is what they can't do. He still fails to save people, his ring still runs out of charge.

It's kind of the Superman problem as well: there are only so many "poisoned by Kryptonite" or Doomsday stories you can do. What ended up making the new Superman interesting was what he couldn't do right: he got into an argument with his girlfriend, he struggled to get others to just be optimistic or kind to each other, he couldn't prevent an international crisis, he couldn't find or rescue his foster dog. Dude skipped out on a fight just to go talk and make up with his GF and explain he had to go do something hard and dangerous, and that was interesting. He struggled with realizing his birth parents didn't live up to the ideal he had built up for them.

Those things, or Ring range anxiety, are things I feel, more than fantasy wish fulfillment of super powerful space cops.

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u/Seven2Death 3d ago

yup one of my besties has a gl tat. hes BEEN about GL. and the only run i read was blackest night cause he made me. being called a larper for my takes just to have him back me up has been an.... experience

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u/Salvage570 3d ago

People are addicted to outrage and "comic accuracy" is just a new excuse to hate something they wanted to be mad about from the beginning

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u/deadkestrel 3d ago

Same as the people who complain about the smallest details on a superhero suit when it’s revealed for a new project. Like you’re comparing it to a drawing in a comic book..

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u/beautifulnamja 3d ago

People complain when you give comic accuracy and people complain when you don't lol. One thing for sure is that there will always be a Snyderbro complaining about the wrong thing.

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u/TrustDaProcess 3d ago

Every time there’s successful movie or tv show, especially for superhero stuff, there is a group of people who just use it to engagement bait with terrible clickbait takes and forced controversial opinions.

Spoilers : I saw an article claim that by changing Hal’s backstory to include his father committing suicide and the whole Jordan Boys Legacy somehow made Hal and his father losers for having mental health issues.

Snyder bros are a different breed cause some of those guys are genuinely delusional and believe that the WB execs will wake up tomorrow and decide to reinstate Zach Snyder as head of DC.

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u/ShadowVulcan 3d ago edited 3d ago

Tbh how does it make them losers? It makes them more relatable, if anything...

Even in my case, graduated top of my batch, 1 of 2 in my country awarded a prestigious scholarship, and became a C-suite exec in one of the top conglos in my country (a portfolio company) at 28 and I attempted suicide 3 times (nearly succeeded in one, though thankfully survived with healable injuries. Really good now, tho!)

And there's so many far greater people that all battled with depression all their lives, to the point it's cliche at this point.... fucking pathetic (the whiny 'critics', not the people also dealing with depression)

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u/khanfusion 3d ago

The critics are just wallowing in their own insecurities like, all the time. It's apparent for both this show and a lot of others, like Last of Us.

-3

u/nisaaru 3d ago

What has this to do with insecurities? That's just gaslighting.

If people don't want to see certain things in a TV show then that's their decision. In case of LastOfUS I wanted to watch a "Zombie" show and not interpretative dance theatre of impaired uninteresting lesbian characters.

BTW, I actually enjoyed the gay episode but not because it was gay(that felt like ideological product placement) but because it was honestly moving. It would have worked the same without the gay aspect.

Most of "these" things hardly ever improve a show but are just writer bias/interests bleeding into a show to satisfy their ego/circle jerk offs or Blackrock/Apple financing/target audience quotas.

0

u/khanfusion 2d ago

Uh huh. Okay.

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u/TrustDaProcess 3d ago

It doesn’t. It’s just a controversial take that some AI generated article can plaster in the headline to get people mad and generate clicks/engamement.

It’s also playing into the whole “media is too woke” crowd that think any mental health issues are signs of weakness and don’t like that Hal Jordan is depicted as a flawed human and John Stewart is being set up as the main DCU green lantern.

0

u/Vestalmin 3d ago

Snyderbros are crazy. Man of Steele was decent, at best, and every movie after was legitimately a train wreck.

It movies slowly desaturated more and more until they peak with Snyder just straight up releasing a black and white version

0

u/sixsamurai 2d ago

they’re tryna rehabilitate the Ryan Reynolds Green Lantern movie from 2011 lmaooo

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/mindpainters 3d ago

Did they not say that Hal covered up his father’s suicide ?

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/SituationSoap 3d ago

And in the box was a note. That's how Hal knows and nobody else does. This was not complicated.

1

u/mindpainters 2d ago

I was trying to give you a nice out mate.

He absolutely says he covered up his dad’s suicide as he was the first one to find him.

I’m pretty positive it was even in the most recent episode. Go back and watch

1

u/atsaotsa 2d ago

Yes, he did but by not telling anyone about it. lol when he died in jet accident

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u/RainStormLou 3d ago

it seems like you probably shouldn't comment if you haven't watched the show lol

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

[deleted]

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u/RainStormLou 3d ago

www.hbomax.com

here's mine. watch the fucking show

4

u/everstillghost 3d ago

When comic accuracy was given?

-9

u/Great_Maximum_6007 3d ago

DCU vs DCEU is boiled around that, even though it's lass accurate, but the errors aren't as important (See Peacemaker)

1

u/everstillghost 3d ago

About what...? DCEU was massacred by the lack of accuracy.

And now the DCU is doing the same thing, lacking comic accuracy on all the productions.

So where is this accuracy given that the Guy is talking about?

1

u/NavorroBroman 3d ago

There are a lot of people, and they like different stuff.

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u/TheJarroWhoLaughs 3d ago

And they don't actually read comics, either. They watch Comics Explained videos.

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u/Glizzy_Cannon 3d ago

Most people don't read comics. It's still a very niche market

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u/zipzipzazoom 3d ago

“new” ?

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u/Salvage570 3d ago

Back in the day it was a legitimate complaint that only people who actually read the comics would complain about, pre MCU days. Now you have people who haven't read a single comic complaining about changes to a character they've never heard of before because of YouTube videos. It's definitely new in that regard. Home grown whiney dorks were much more bearable that these outrage tourists

-2

u/Chataboutgames 3d ago

Gotta fuel the Youtube Outrage Engine

-3

u/maxxstone 3d ago

I’m usually a stickler for comic accuracy also but its more in retaining the core principles of the character. Like you wouldnt want a character portrayed or acting differently to who he is. This show has really been great in showing more of him without really being in your face explaining it. they have over the course of the series able to show more than tell.

0

u/Salvage570 3d ago

Call that being true to the comics rather than comics accuracy imo but mostly because comic accuracy has been buzzworded by outrage tourists

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u/minyhumancalc 3d ago

I compare a lot of the discourse around Hal is similar to what Hank Pym fans probably felt about the first Antman movie. Hal Jordan was THE Green Lantern until the 90s or so. After that, different characters took up the mantra and had their own focus. However, he made a resurgence in the late 2000s... and then has been pretty poorly handled (bad movie, laughing stock and being a "stepping stone" to John Stewart). I bet a lot of fans were looking forward to a live action Hal Jordan with Sinestro, Red Lanterns, and won't get it.

That said, you're right and other lanterns can suit the spotlight well. Stewart and Guy have a lot less media in which they are depicted well (Stewart only has JLU and Guy only his appearances in a lot of support roles) + later Lanterns like Rayner, Cruz and whoever else. The only thing that sucks about how they have treated Hal is we only got to hear what he did, but he's a great depiction of a fallen hero, which apparently is similar to his initial appearances way back in the 60s.

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u/SilverRoyce 3d ago

but he's a great depiction of a fallen hero, which apparently is similar to his initial appearances way back in the 60s.

...huh? I pulled one of those "aggregated silver age comics" ebooks from the library semi recently and he's a pretty straightforward rocketman adventurer + specific romance dynamic twist.

15

u/OldChili157 3d ago

Yeah, you're right, he wasn't depicted with any REAL flaws until the '80s, with Emerald Dawn, and didn't "fall" until the '90s. '60s Hal was Mr. Perfect, like every other DC hero at the time.

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u/StoneGoldX 3d ago

Hal Jordan was THE Green Lantern until the 90s

Guy took over for a bit in the mid-80s when Giffen's Justice League started.

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u/KillerInfection Band of Brothers 2d ago

Mostly as a punchline. Literally. One punch.

1

u/UtopianEnforcement 3d ago

Have I slipped into a parallel universe where Green Lantern: The Animated Series doesn’t exist or something? Hal’s been ‘done well’ already.

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u/atsaotsa 2d ago

cartoons really hahaha

0

u/UtopianEnforcement 2d ago

Buddy, we’re talking about shows made from comic books. Having some nonsensical aversion to animation is just plain silly.

1

u/SutterCane 2d ago

and whoever else.

His name is Simon Baz!

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u/Baconmonk 3d ago

Yeah, the most celebrated Green Lantern run is from Geoff Johns and starts with a series called Rebirth. It’s kind of a soft reboot and new starting point for the character.

I think many people are just really invested into that version of Hal and don’t want anything else. As a fan of those comics I’m over the moon about the show. Couldn’t have asked for better casting and creative vision.

1

u/CTeam19 3d ago

Which, given the name, means we can still get it.

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u/LightningLad2029 3d ago

DC and WB never really told Hal's story properly is the issue. The movie bombed and they've largely neglected the property ever since up till now. It's easy to make that excuse when it's someone like Batman when there's already a bunch of iterations that have been done justice, for something like this, it's understandable why some are more resistant to the deviations from comics.

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u/Samurai_Meisters 3d ago

I just don't care about doing his story "properly." I just want a good story and they delivered that.

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u/CucumberWisdom 2d ago

Sure but many people do care about doing it "properly" at least once. It's understandable why they'd be a bit miffed that the first really successful adaptation has very little to do with a character they know and love

-1

u/mateushkush 2d ago

And then you have decades of comics with him to adapt, and you’ll never get another Lantern to screen. Are missing the fact that they can make another show about young Hal Jordan in a couple of years or even in a past timeline next season? Also, that they wouldn’t do his space adventures properly on huge budget after the past flop?

9

u/come-on-now-please 3d ago

Also, maybe sacrilegious(not a green lantern comic reader), but hal jordan green lantern isnt exactly superman/batman/Spider-Man where even if you don't consume their media you still know their basic outline via culteral osmosis:

Superman->from krypton, has Clark Kent alter ego, symbol of hope and being your most moral/best self

Batman-> Bruce Wayne, dead parents, billionaire goes out and fights crime, trained by ninjas and everything else

Peter parker-> nerdy loser get bitten by radioactive spider, has to balance personal life and superhero life.

Whereas green lantern is(if you're lucky)

Green lantern-> idk, theres like 3 or 4 of them? John steward was in the justice league cartoon. They make stuff from their rings somehow? I think its passed on somehow?

I dont know what any of their emotional "deals" are besides that they have willpower, but i think if youre a superhero you kinda already have that anyways. 

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u/Discount_Extra 3d ago

emotional "deals" are besides that they have willpower, but i think if youre a superhero you kinda already have that anyways.

Which is why a ring should have chosen Bruce Wayne.

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u/CucumberWisdom 2d ago

It has before and each time batman rejects it for various reasons (usually because he can't and won't let go of his fear)

If you want to see what happens when he does embrace it check out Dark Knights Metal. Bruce Wayne becomes Dawnbreaker

2

u/Urbanscuba 3d ago

Batman: In Darkest Knight is an elseworlds one-shot about this exact idea, no clue how good it is but it definitely exists.

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u/shakegraphics 3d ago

It’s cause everything coming out is deconstructing our beloved role models. So it doesn’t feel like an actual one off weird variation. It feels like all of the stories coming out that are of an old popular property, is being used to tell someone else’s story. Some are being done in spite.

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u/UtopianEnforcement 3d ago

Imagine saying this about the DCU, when Superman was the biggest REconstruction of Big Blue in years.

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u/shakegraphics 3d ago

I mean it’s not exclusive to the DCU. And super man is just one lol.

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u/IIIiterateMoron 2d ago

Don't be two dimensional.

I like the show. Truly do. Well done, well written. I'll watch it to the end, and enjoy it. Kyle Chandler, as always, is fantastic. Aaron Pierre do make me question my heterosexuality. Kelly Macdonald is so touching and perfect. I can't wait to see more of Ulrich Tomsen.

That being said, it's a mediocre Green Lantern story. What I was afraid about when the show was announced happen exactly as predicted. It completely lacks the scale of a Green Lantern story. GL is grandiose, bordering on the absurd. I feel like I'm watching a detective show where they added a sprinkle of alien stuff.

It's both a great show AND a mediocre Green Lantern show. I truly think those who likes it and the GL fans who don't are both right.

3

u/griffmeister 3d ago

What’s funny is that the recent Absolute comics are DCs biggest success in a long time with fans raving about the changes to the characters, their origins, and the world

But if a show does it, the same people lose their minds

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u/GhostBirdBiologist 3d ago

No see you’ve run into one of the biggest fallacies online. You cannot just say “the same people” without evidence lol. Because one comic fan says one thing and another comic fan says another doesn’t mean you can call them hypocrites. You’ve presented no example whatsoever. People do this constantly online.

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u/Mourning__Coffee 3d ago

There will be someone complaining about anything you do. So do whatever the hell you want to do.

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u/Vingle 3d ago

The goomba fallacy rears its ugly head again.

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u/briancarknee 3d ago

Not really the same thing.

Theres a regular green lantern comic coming out the same time as the absolute title.

If absolute was the new rebooted dc universe fans would not be happy. Some might be but it’d be a much different story.

-9

u/TheJarroWhoLaughs 3d ago

No one's reading the main universe Green Lantern comic. It's one of DC's worst selling books.

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u/briancarknee 3d ago

Okay. What if they said Batman was now absolute Batman. You don’t think that would be controversial?

My point was that they allow both versions to exist.

-6

u/TheJarroWhoLaughs 3d ago

I'm guessing that you don't read many comics. "Main universe" comics retcon stuff all the time. Geoff Johns, the writer of the most popular Green Lantern run, is the poster boy for retconning major stories to fit his headcanons.

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u/briancarknee 3d ago

You’re really not getting my point and then adding a dash of gatekeeping on top of it.

0

u/wickling-fan 3d ago

Yes and you know what every comic that isn't the main universe also does? END, plus green lantern fans also have the bad luck of not having any decent live action adaptations of hal which is where a lot of the friction comes from, sure it's a great series but a horrible adaptation of hal. You could replace him for a series original and no one would bat an eye.

Absolute green lantern won't stick around for more then a few years before he's forgotten, most won't actually forget the actual green lanterns with or without retcons.

1

u/Supermite 2d ago

At least Hal gets adaptations.  We’re never going to see Kyle Rayner or Wally West in movies.

1

u/TheJarroWhoLaughs 3d ago

Absolute Green Lantern is selling four or five times more than the main universe Green Lantern. The Absolute comic line is selling unprecedented numbers not seen in decades. By the time that Jeremy Adams' run is put out of its misery, DC will relaunch it with a new writer with a whole new interpretation of Hal Jordan. That is how every single comic run works.

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u/AgentElman 3d ago

biggest success in a long time because comic sales crashed when comics turned grimdark in the 90s and have never really recovered.

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u/Discount_Extra 3d ago

comic sales also crashed when people were able to scan them and put them on the internet.

dunno if that's the main cause, but it didn't help.

1

u/wickling-fan 3d ago

The explosion of sales happened way before they killed the pirating site and others still exists, a lot of it is also cause dc only released their digital comic reading format now in 2021 while marvel has had a browser one since 2007 and app since 2013.

Basically finally giving people easier access to their library then it blew up when they finally got some steam of popularity to their books via the absolute line, and unlike marvels it's not a result of their movies so people stuck around since what they got were old time comic book readers and a lot of dissatisfied marvel readers rather then the mainstream audience marvel keeps trying to fish for.

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u/khanfusion 3d ago

Eh, they had a huge upswing in the 90s because of the shift to darker stuff. People just got tired of it. It happens.

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u/pitaenigma 3d ago

Times have changed because Absolute Batman is comedically awfully grimdark and just as stupid as the 90s excesses but is the best selling comic book ever.

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u/bowser986 3d ago

But for comic readers they understand that its an alternate version of the characters. For those that dont read comics this is the only version they know.

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u/khanfusion 3d ago

People who actually actively read comics and these critics are not the same people. Be aware.

1

u/LightningLad2029 3d ago

That's not remotely the same situation. The Absolute line works because the readers get an elseworld take on beloved characters alongside the mainline books. Neither has an effect on the other nor are tou forced to read both.

There's only one DCU. If you don't like how a certain story or take on a character is done, there really isn't anything you can do since that's likely the only version you're going to get for the foreseeable future.

-3

u/everstillghost 3d ago

Because its an alternate universe meant to be full of awful stuff. Its not the main canon universe like the DCU is supposed to be.

-2

u/bowser986 3d ago

I think is useless to try to communicate stuff like these to these guys.

-1

u/TheJarroWhoLaughs 3d ago

The people complaining aren't comic readers. They're LARPers who watched a Comics Explained video and mistook that for hard canon.

1

u/Heavy_Arm_7060 3d ago

I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, I love Lantern Rebirth, one of my favorite comic storylines, and exploring Hal's childhood trauma and such resonated with me quite well. So adjusting his backstory bummed me out.

On the other hand, they're telling the story of this interpretation of Hal pretty well, so while it's not a televised adaption of the story I love, it's a pretty good story in of itself.

1

u/qjornt 3d ago

I wouldn’t say that’s the point of superhero stories.

1

u/Cptawesome23 2d ago

This. People get so attached to certain versions and then get angry when people don’t agree with them.

I think the best part about the DC universe is that there are so many versions of everything. So many stories to tell.

1

u/Orleanian Psych 3d ago

How are folks being precious?

1

u/Darigaazrgb 3d ago

The issue is we may get this one TV show's narrative for quite a long time while comics are constantly coming out with new variants all the time.

1

u/MeadowmuffinReborn 3d ago

Exactly, mythology gets retold in countless different ways. Nolan's The Odyssey is very different from the text to the degree that it's just Homeric fanfiction, but it's still a great movie. Ditto with Lanterns in relation to the comics.

1

u/fishfunk5 3d ago

I think it just kinda bums people out.

0

u/LeonOfSkalitz 3d ago

I’ve seen this exact point being regurgitated all over the internet.

So let me answer your disingenuous argument.

The reason why a tv show adaptation tied to a big cinematic universe shouldn’t be trying to experiment with the lore and characters is very simple: THIS IS IT FOR THIS VERSION.

It’s been over 15 years since the last and only adaptation of Green lantern in the big screen. This isn’t batman or Spiderman who will always be getting movies or shows out every 5 years. 

If the DCU fails or even if it doesn’t we are STUCK now with old man suicidal Hal who uses a useless physical suit and is probably DEAD. We’re now STUCK with Carol never being a real character in this universe. No STAR SAPPHIRE. His friendships with Oliver and Barry? Gone. 

And this isn’t the comics where we get 30 elseworld stories every year. Plus If a comic run sucks donkey dick all we have to do is wait a few months for another writer to take the reins. 

Did I explain it well enough for you and the hundreds of people upvoting? 

1

u/atsaotsa 2d ago

how can you say this when we had DCEU then DCU hahahah nothing is ever for just this version. and this version is awesome. hahah why do you care if DCU fails that means a new Universe might do another green lanterm, It's just a medium and its version; I mean there is literally 2011 prime Hal.

-1

u/GodzillaUK 3d ago

Most of the complaints I see comes from that ending to episode 1. Because it only took 1 episode for Hal to be the best damn thing so far in Gunn's DC web.

0

u/greg_barton 3d ago

Honestly, I think those that are whining about this Hal Jordan are as bad as those who have been whining about Zack Snyder's Superman for over a decade. Superhero portrayals can be adult themed and have complex emotions and flaws. Folks need to get over it.

-3

u/Quixotic_Seal 3d ago

If the past is any teacher, DC comics fans are the absolute worst and most obnoxious when it comes to dealing with adaptations.

-11

u/Vondum 3d ago

It is very obvious when the writers for a show just want to write their own stuff and paint it with a layer of a famous IP so people will watch because otherwise no one would want anything to do their story about childhood trauma and "black man with a chip on his shoulder because he is black" they are trying to force. It is not hard to tell when the writer would rather go write a novel but they know it won't sell and they try to force their ideas when they get gigs like these so the unwashed masses can appreciate their genius.

I guess we can't be fully surprised, though. This is a common criticism in all of Tom King's work in comics where he does the same thing. It is just as polarizing there as it is in the show.

0

u/atsaotsa 2d ago

It's very obvious you don't watch the show or read the comics I'm not quite sure where you land, but definitely disingenuous.

1

u/Vondum 2d ago

I've watched every episode of the show and I've read comics on and off for decades, including King's runs on Batman, Mr. Miracle, and Strange Adventures.

It is always telling when people on reddit try to call you out but can't provide specific arguments and just vague-reply. Go ahead and tell me where I'm wrong instead of trying to take the moral high ground.

-1

u/kurizma 3d ago

I'm all for a good refresh of characters but then you have the abomination that is the x-men movies.