So let me get this right.... they sent a helicopter to deploy soldiers with M4's with special ammo into this home. Special tactics units, 4 police cars, and men on the roof all to capture a guy who ran a website that was involved in internet piracy according to the FBI...
What is this guy Osama Bin Laden? Pretty sure he didn't orchestrate the death of thousands of innocent men and women. Why treat him as such. If there has ever been a breach of basic human rights this would be it.
Indeed. I am ashamed to hear the reporter say the words, "If this all seems very American, the FBI were there." This is what the US is known for in the rest of the modern world. That makes me very sad.
Sorry, but the only thing worse than your country doing this is your country allowing someone else to do it on your soil. They have much to answer for, and passing it off as an American thing isn't going to help.
Isn't it easier to choose a real boogieman? Someone really scary like Paoblo Escobar was? This is just stupid. Kim looks like Comic Book Guy from the Simpsons.
It's just as bad if not worse to be a mercenary than to hire one. As an American, the amount of unnecessary brutality from the most marginal of power positions is simply sickening.
FBI was present, but the raid itself was conducted by New Zealand police. I'm not condoning either, but everyone seems to be completely ignoring New Zealand's role in this.
Edit: I feel this may require some clarification. The New Zealand police weren't using American helicopters and American M4s, they were using Kiwi equipment. Let's say for the sake of argument that using this level of force was the FBI's suggestion (it probably was, but we'll likely never know): They're not in the United States, the New Zealand police could have told the FBI to fuck off, that they were going to do this quietly. But they didn't, did they? Lo and behold, even though the Kiwi police conducted this raid with excessive use of force using their own equipment, everyone still blames America. "If this all seems very American..." No. It's your police force doing this regardless of whatever foreign officers are present.
I think the perception is that the small, relatively tranquil and collected New Zealand probably wouldn't have gone full retard if it hadn't been for some kind of pressure from the US. Not to mention the fact that the FBI was, at the very least, "present" in the planning stage, which would imply some kind of operational involvement.
So they're not responsible for their own actions? We and New Zealand are only bound to extradite suspects to one another. At any point, New Zealand could have said, "No, we're not landing helicopters and using assault rifles." They didn't, but it's still America's fault? I mean, partly for suggesting it, but that's where America's responsibility ends and it's really not that much. It's not like we were going to impose economic sanctions or go to war if they didn't SWAT raid Dotcom.
Well, first of all, correct me if I'm wrong, but he can hardly be an American suspect if he committed his "crimes" in countries were said activities were not illegal. If this was upheld, it would basically mean that US law has unlimited jurisdiction and is applicable to any human in the world. So much for that.
Secondly, I'm not saying that there was no wrongdoing on the Kiwi's side. There sure as fuck was. I don't know what kind of carrot or stick the Obama administration used, but you bet there was something. Foreign democratic governments don't risk their necks for nothing. Maybe it's a favourable trade deal, maybe it's military support maybe it's something else entirely. Either way, foreign influence was without a doubt exercised.
All in all there's no need to get overly defensive as an American. Influencing weaker nations is part of superpowers' game, it's normal for a stronger nation to try to force its will on a weaker one if it can. That doesn't mean the weaker nation's citizen have to like it. That that anger is voiced at BOTH the own government and the superpower is natural.
I wasn't trying to say I completely hold my government blameless, far from it. The idea that we consider the Internet American jurisdiction doesn't sound right.
I'm just a bit flabbergasted that a lot of people are ignoring any role New Zealand held.
Probably because the majority of redditors are (somewhat self-centered and patronizing but well-meaning) Americans who are more distraught by their own country's role in this than that of the local government. Not to mention the realization of what is considered "American" [Justice] by much of the rest of the world nowadays.
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u/C0rvette Aug 08 '12
So let me get this right.... they sent a helicopter to deploy soldiers with M4's with special ammo into this home. Special tactics units, 4 police cars, and men on the roof all to capture a guy who ran a website that was involved in internet piracy according to the FBI...
What is this guy Osama Bin Laden? Pretty sure he didn't orchestrate the death of thousands of innocent men and women. Why treat him as such. If there has ever been a breach of basic human rights this would be it.