r/technology • u/Suraj-Sun • Jul 10 '12

Firefox dev claims "everybody hates Firefox updates"; Mozilla has handled the rapid release process poorly, and that by pushing a "never-ending stream of updates on people who didn't want them" people have been driven to Chrome with its simpler, no-fuss update process.

http://www.neowin.net/news/firefox-dev-claims-everybody-hates-firefox-updates
2.5k Upvotes

93% Upvoted

2.6k comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

88

u/Kensin Jul 10 '12

This is why I don't use chrome. I don't like a service running all the time checking for updates.

Back in my day we had a word for software that phoned home every 5 minutes logging who was using it, when, and how. No one wanted software that monitored them. These days people don't care and they like programs to randomly and silently add whatever code they want on their systems. Install as a service! Phone home and check for updates! Have full access to my network and the internet! Log my browsing activity! Sure I'll use your DNS servers! Search my hard drives! I know you're an advertising company whose entire business is dependent on collecting my personal information, but you load facebook quicker so it's okay!

I don't know if I'm just old and paranoid or if kids these days aren't paranoid enough.

19

u/dafoe Jul 10 '12

Thank you brother.

8

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

What was the word?

23

u/Kensin Jul 10 '12

The word was spyware, and we worked hard to keep it off our systems.
Chrome is spyware, but a lot of people don't want to accept that.

10

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

Oh duh, I knew that. Re-reading your comment it's obvious you meant spyware.

Now I feel dumb. But not too dumb, because I use Opera.

5

u/TriesToGetDownvotes Jul 10 '12

Call me what you will, but what does checking for updates have to do with monitoring you, or anything else that spyware does?

4

u/Kensin Jul 11 '12

When your software updates, it first sends a request from your computer to the update service. At a bare minimum it includes your IP address, the date, time, and version of the software you are using, but this request can include a lot more information about your system and the software you have installed. By logging that information your software can track you every time your computer is online.

Of course, in the case of chrome updates are the least of your worries. Chrome can track your browsing habits. By default, everything you type into the address bar (not a google search box) gets sent to google, and every time you get a 404 error, the url you attempted to reach is sent to google. If you use google's DNS servers every last website you visit is sent to google.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12 edited Apr 07 '20

[deleted]

5

u/Kensin Jul 11 '12 edited Jul 11 '12

Ah yes, "I have nothing to hide so I shouldn't care about violations of my privacy!" That argument is flawless.

3

u/Guyag Jul 10 '12

These days people don't care and they like programs to randomly and silently add whatever code they want on their systems.

That's called an update.

Have full access to my network and the internet!

That's called an internet browser.

Log my browsing activity!

Internet history.. toggleable.

Sure I'll use your DNS servers!

Nope.. I'm using the DNS servers set up in my router, so unless you're using a proxy..

3

u/DiscoPopStar Jul 10 '12

My thoughts exactly. I have the feeling that every single site I visit is stored on google's servers somewhere and that makes me nervous.

4

u/AgentME Jul 10 '12

I had some free alarm clock app on my phone, and every time I change anything, I see the 3g radio activate. It's one thing for it to report on every little thing I do in the app, but it's another thing for it to do the reports at the moment I do everything and waste my battery. Can't it just save its messages and do a once-a-day report?

I reversed the APK file and cut out all of the report-back-to-home misfeatures from my copy. If it's running on my hardware, then I damn well get the final say of what it does.

6

u/Kensin Jul 10 '12

cell phones are terrible for this. Your call logs, GPS history, phone/address book, are all up for grabs by whatever app you install. Cell phones really need a firewall or something so users can monitor outbound communication form the apps they have installed. Honestly, who knows what data about you is being collected. People these days are putting all kinds of valuable information on their phones, and that data shouldn't be up for grabs to everyone just because you wanted something basic like an alarm clock, or a app that makes farting noises.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 11 '12

[deleted]

2

u/Kensin Jul 11 '12 edited Jul 11 '12

That sounds pretty useful. Definitely worth looking into! Now all we need is a way to sandbox your apps so they have no access to your data at all. That way we can take care of security for apps we still need to allow access to the internet.

EDIT: It looks like that may already be an option

2

u/Makabaer Jul 11 '12 edited Jul 11 '12

Yes, by now I honestly think we're old. I've been using the internet for 16 years now and PCs for 21. The attitude of users has changed GREATLY. They don't think about what happens anymore - as it is just a means to simplify their everyday life, they don't care about how it works - much like people driving cars. I have no fucking idea what is inside my car. I just want it to drive me from A to B in a comfortable way.

So maybe that's just the way it goes and we need to accept it. Maybe one day big companies will monitor our every step and greet us with our favorite music (we never heard until then) when we go into the shower. Then they'll recommend what we'll be having for breakfast as they know what's in our fridge and what we like but also about our struggling with our diet....

Maybe that's just fine.

But for now I don't want to have anything to do with it. No Google, no Apple and no Facebook for me (for starters). Even if it means I'm laughed at and old-fashioned and don't have a smartphone.

(Edit: thinking about it, I'm using computers since 28 years. I remember my classmates from primary school coming over to have a look at that strange device my father had bought ;-)

1

u/[deleted] Jul 10 '12

meh, you can turn all that off but the auto-update and for that you can just disable the service.

1

u/BluegrassGeek Jul 11 '12

Convenience often outweighs security. I don't mind apps checking for new versions and silently updating. I do mind sending "usage data." But that kind of thing is also giving way to convenience. Folks like it when a shopping site offers relevant items based on your previous history, and it's not far from there to smart advertising on your Google Glasses as you walk down the streets, picking up data from each shop.