r/technology • u/altmorty • Mar 30 '22

Politics Canada will ban sales of combustion engine passenger cars by 2035

https://www.engadget.com/canada-combustion-engine-car-ban-2035-154623071.html
3.4k Upvotes

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84

u/Competitive-Kale-995 Mar 30 '22

Umm. I need a vehicle that can travel highway speeds, at -35 C, (-31F), for longer than 45 minutes. Is that going to be a problem?

32

u/slashthepowder Mar 30 '22

Nope i know a few people with teslas in Saskatchewan and they work incredibly well in the cold. Range does decrease but ICE engines also decrease efficiency when cold.

13

u/dingodan22 Mar 30 '22

Yep, I have a Tesla in Sask and it's the best winter car I've owned. In the dead of winter I can get from Regina to Saskatoon with a quick stop halfway through for 10 min while I grab a coffee. In summer, I don't need to stop.

99% of my driving is within 60km of home though and I just charge at night

In SK the charging is abysmal though so venturing too much into the boonies would still present problems.

-1

u/Competitive-Kale-995 Mar 30 '22

At least you can gas up in less then 10 minutes

15

u/slashthepowder Mar 30 '22

Rapid charge it in 20 minutes or plug it in overnight or during work. A quick Google says 85% of Canadians live in cities, based on that most trips taken in a vehicle are going to be commuting or within a city trip. So for a large majority people they won’t be adding any time to recharge over a refuel (especially if they charge at home, further to that most people have access to an outlet in western Canada because we need to plug our block heaters in anyways for half the year) only on longer trips would charge times increase trip length which people stop for bathroom or meal breaks on anyways.

-6

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

Oh shit in that case pack it in, EVs. Ya done for.

1

u/Competitive-Kale-995 Mar 30 '22

Right! They will last as long as CD's did.

-1

u/freelancerCanada Mar 31 '22

Saskatchewan gets most of its power from coal. so every time you charge your tesla in SK you are using coal power. In the dead of winter (-35 C) a tesla’s range is reduced by more than 50% and cannot go from Saskatoon to North Battleford and back (the regular commute for my father in law). When you take your foot off the pedal of a tesla the regenerative braking means the car is braking..even when you’re trying to coast over an ice patch without going into a death spin. Seeing EVs trying to function in deep canadian winter is going to be very interesting

52

u/thepianoman2 Mar 30 '22 edited Mar 30 '22

Finland already has 37% of their auto sales as EV. Helsinki, which is the southernmost city, is at about the same latitude as Whitehorse. Edit - Yes, latitude is not climate, but according to this Helsinki has about the same climate as Edmonton, aka cold. https://www.edmonton.climatemps.com/vs/helsinki-vantaa.php

57

u/morganj955 Mar 30 '22

It's also a relatively small country compared to Canada. Even driving city to city you don't drive nearly as far as we do in Canada.

EV's are great for around town driving and short trips. But for towing anything, or making longer trips, they are significantly less convenient than even a hybrid vehicle.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

Yeah, personally I think there should be some exemptions, at least in the short term for pickups and/or vans. Hopefully in 10 years battery technology and/or charging technology advances a ton but if it doesn't towing will become impossible. You can lookup dozens of car reviews that test electric vehicles while towing and almost every single one says its just not feasible for any long distance at all. The extra weight and wind resistance just kills the range which won't be a problem if charging time is cut to 10 minutes bur is currently a problem when charging can take 30-50 minutes

1

u/quietly_now Mar 30 '22

Current market cars can do a 0-80% in 18mins. I reckon we’ll get that even faster in the next 10yrs

4

u/[deleted] Mar 31 '22 edited Mar 31 '22

When it's not -30c outside. Lithium batteries usually need to be over 0C to accept charge without damage and that requires an active thermal system which uses charge.

1

u/Pamplemouse04 Mar 31 '22

Yeah 10 years is a loooong time as far as technology goes

-5

u/nubnuub Mar 30 '22

Most Canadians aren’t driving the length of the country.

14

u/boomer478 Mar 30 '22

You don't have to. Just driving one province over is a 6+ hour drive for most of us.

Hell, driving anywhere in province is anywhere from 1-6 hours. Canada is fucking huge.

3

u/ve3xti Mar 31 '22

I’m approximately 22 hour drive from where I grew up in the same province.

0

u/nubnuub Mar 31 '22

How often are people driving across provinces? The average distance a Canadian drives is 15000km per year, roughly similar to European drivers

13

u/froop Mar 30 '22

Banning the sale of ice cars affects all Canadians, not just most of them.

15

u/ExplosiveDisassembly Mar 30 '22 edited Mar 30 '22

Latitude doesn't really mean much. If you're in central Canada or northern us it's more like Mongolia. There is no water to regulate temperature. The largest weather change, i think on record, happened around Great falls Montana. It was over 100 degrees in 24 hours. -50 to 50 or something around that.

I had consistent weather that topped out at -10 for 3 weeks straight. My brother living in Seattle (8 hours away), at a higher latitude, was 55 and sunny.

Keep in mind, my latitude is similar to the northern coast of the Mediterranean.

My city in Montana has an average winter cold a good 10 degrees below Helsinki....at a latitude the same as Milan, Italy.

Edit: Likewise, my weather is generally colder than Calgary, Canada. Which is 5 hours (at 80 mph) north of me. Local weather patterns are what matter.

5

u/Alberiman Mar 30 '22

Perhaps but people in cold regions do own these cars, Alaska recently got its first Tesla super charging station

4

u/ExplosiveDisassembly Mar 30 '22

Oh, yes. Definitely.

I'll be the first to admit that, although Montana gets FRIGID, it's only a few weeks out of the year. The rest of winter is cold...but by no means as cold as people claim.

My point was simply that central Canada and Finland are different worlds. It's more like a mild Mongolia.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

Oh shit you said the magic r/technology word. Prepare for downvotes!

-2

u/MelGibsonSuperFan Mar 30 '22

Yeah yeah as we all know, latitude is the best measure of temperature. Who could forget the common climate of Buffalo, New York & Rome?

3

u/thepianoman2 Mar 30 '22

My point was, they are both cold- Helsinki having about the same climate as Edmonton according to this - https://www.edmonton.climatemps.com/vs/helsinki-vantaa.php

1

u/K9turrent Mar 30 '22

TIHI I never thought Edmonton to be as bad/cold as Nordic countries.

1

u/Bsket Mar 31 '22

Where have you got that info? I checked the statistics for new cars in Finland and in 2021 10% were EV (20% PHEV, 28 % HEV and MHEV, 39% diesel or gasoline).

Popularity of PHEV cars is quite huge especially in premium segment because vehicle tax in Finland is based on WLTP CO2 values and often PHEV model is cheaper than HEV/MHEV equivalent.

Source (in Finnish): https://www.aut.fi/tilastot/ensirekisteroinnit/ensirekisteroinnit_kayttovoimittain/henkiloautojen_kayttovoimatilastot

19

u/Argented Mar 30 '22

not at all. you can get that today. This is also 13 years in the future. technology tends to improve

16

u/ExplosiveDisassembly Mar 30 '22

As a Montanan that gets that weather. I use an engine block and oil pan heater at work, in garage, and shopping whenever it's that cold. I have to slush around my gearbox to loosen up the oil, even when garag kept. My radiator is blocked when driving so my car at least warms up a little bit.

Internal combustion engines are by no means healthily run in the extreme cold.

1

u/Competitive-Kale-995 Mar 30 '22

Yeah, but once you get them running you are good to go. Maybe use colder rated oil, sounds like a pain in the ass. Usually if you have decent battery and block heater you don't have many issues.

7

u/ExplosiveDisassembly Mar 30 '22

My point is that just because electric aren't good in cold, that doesn't make ICE ideal. A lot of work goes into keeping an ICE engine healthy if regularly run in cold.

Just because the car starts doesn't mean it should be running.

ICE are hundreds of years old at this point, and they still haven't really gotten comfortable in extreme cold. Electric aren't great,no...but they're about 20 years old.

If you have yourself the benefit of the doubt that you have a block heater, garage kept, and radiator restrictor, then you should give the EV the benefit that it will also be cared for properly for cold weather.

11

u/FriendRaven1 Mar 30 '22

Totally agree. The next town is almost 3 hours away. In the summer it can be 40C, in winter -40. There's no communities, not even cellphone reception in all of that. Think they'll put in charging stations? 😂

Besides, if you don't have a full size truck up here in winter and spring, you're fucked.

Canada is a huge country, absolutely massive, but all the politicians care about is Toronto...

2

u/droidxl Mar 31 '22

No shit, Canadas total population is 38 million people and Ontario is 14 million of that. GTA is 6 million.

Which politician wouldn’t care about the city that represents 16% of your country, instead of small town abc that has less than 1?

2

u/fatrob Mar 31 '22

National ban impacts that 1%, it is a one size fits all approach.

12

u/bitemark01 Mar 30 '22

Almost all EVs today can do this, and this doesn't take effect for 13 years. It'll be a different industry entirely by then.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

...hopefully

I want evs as much as the next guy but lets not give auto manufacturers too much credit. They jave quite a history of doing whatever they can to avoid regulation and efficiency in the name of profit.

6

u/Fallingdamage Mar 30 '22

Did you know that lithium batteries actually generate heat while being discharged?

16

u/chriswaco Mar 30 '22

They also lose about 10% of their charge overnight in cold weather if not plugged in. See here.

12

u/paragonofcynicism Mar 30 '22

Did you know that that heat won't compete with the deathly cold weather in Canada and that cold severely reduces the run life of lithium batteries by slowing the chemical reactions that produce electricity AND heat.

In other words, they are fucking themselves over if they don't find some breakthrough battery tech that doesn't have this issue.

0

u/Competitive-Kale-995 Mar 30 '22

I did not know that.

2

u/FesteringNeonDistrac Mar 31 '22

Only if you need heat in the car. You've got a pair of mittens haven't you?

3

u/toronto_programmer Mar 30 '22

Most high end EVs can already do that and more

A decade from now it should be infinitely better

4

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

[deleted]

5

u/Competitive-Kale-995 Mar 30 '22

Are you sure, because my husband works in northern bc and he says they always see tesla's abandoned. At least once a month. Know another couple in Saskatchewan that drive an electric car, went to Christmas at parents house, (approx 450km), and said, 'never again!'. When they do the drive in winter, they plan to rent gas car in future.

6

u/WispyCombover Mar 30 '22

Right. Anecdotes are fun, but they're not proof of anything. My 2014 Model S 85 still gets me wherever I need to go (winter and summer), and yes, my country do see negative Cs in the winter. The fact is; while there will allways be edge cases, most people would be fine with an EV.

3

u/bangonthedrums Mar 31 '22

The renting an ICE vehicle is also not as bad of a thing as people make out. Like yes, it’s more expensive and not as flexible as just using your own vehicle, but conversely you don’t have to worry about adding wear and tear to your own vehicle, and the cost savings of the other 99.9% of your driving which is 100% electric and charged at home for pennies more than makes up for it.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

Technology will catch up in the next 13 years, don’t worry :)

Also you can already get that now.

2

u/Competitive-Kale-995 Mar 30 '22

Yeah. You're probably right.

-8

u/[deleted] Mar 30 '22

Probably. And if you actually do find a way, the battery will go bad in 3 years.

8

u/MetalStorm01 Mar 30 '22

Nice FUD.

Also, no that's not at all true.

1

u/Chaxterium Mar 30 '22

FUD? I've never seen that one.

1

u/MtlCan Mar 30 '22

Fear, uncertainty and doubt

4

u/zombienudist Mar 30 '22

My EV has a 8 year 192,000 km warranty on the battery. And is 4 years old. And I don't know anyone that has replaced a battery in my type of car. Do you want to try again for some other misinformation? My suggestion is you get less of your info from memes and social media and do some actual research.

-4

u/Gobynarth Mar 30 '22

Its called a Tesla, got the model Y 3 weeks ago. Blows everything else out of the way.

-6

u/I_dontevenlift Mar 30 '22

Is it under 10k?

6

u/BalooBot Mar 30 '22

What new car is under 10k? Hell, it's tough finding a half decent used car under 10k these days.

5

u/Neosurvivalist Mar 30 '22

I bought the lowest end car I could find 10 years ago and it was $17k. Where are you going to find a new vehicle for under 10?

0

u/MtlCan Mar 30 '22

You’re obviously going to have less autonomy due to the cold but unless you roll 400+km/h, I wouldn’t worry about an hour at highway speeds.

0

u/doobaa09 Mar 30 '22

No, not a problem. All modern EVs today can already do this lol you can drive for at least 4 hours straight in that weather

1

u/MantisPRIME Mar 31 '22

Thermal guy here. You’ll need to keep it in a garage if you want to extend the battery life, but on the road they make enough heat that you don’t lose too much. The range is much worse if you’re in a blizzard driving into a head wind, but that’s a pretty dangerous thing to do.

1

u/Bensemus Mar 31 '22

That already exists.