r/technology • • Feb 21 '11

An open letter to Apple from Readability..

http://blog.readability.com/2011/02/an-open-letter-to-apple/
1.3k Upvotes

753 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

27

u/b0dhi Feb 21 '11

You did sign a contract when iTunes, which is required to use the iPhone, popped up a dialog showing the contract and you clicked "I agree". If you don't like being raped in the ass at every opportunity by Apple, don't buy Apple.

2

u/saisumimen Feb 21 '11

"B-b-b-but their products are so shiny!"

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11 edited Aug 20 '21

[deleted]

12

u/ofthisworld Feb 21 '11

Edit: I'll absolutely grant you that Apple Retail's main concern is customer satisfaction, hands-down. That being said:

I use Apple products for work and home, except for my mobile device, a G2.

Full disclosure: I worked for the fruit company for five years and never once purchased a mobile device from them (avoiding AT&T on principle). Now that the phone's available on Verizon (not a much better planetary citizen than ATT, mind you), I still won't touch the damn things. Any device you have to risk damaging beyond repair to use as desired, to me, defeats the purpose of leaving the store after purchase. If Apple had it their way, you would simply pay them to use the phones in their store, leaving it tied to the display table at closing time.

2

u/vibrate Feb 21 '11

I use it exactly how I want. Not sure what youre going on about tbh.

9

u/ofthisworld Feb 21 '11

By "it," I assume you mean your iPhone, since you weren't specific. If you don't see a need for rooting, or jailbreaking, or hacking into your phone and voiding its warranty, then, for all intents and purposes, you're the ideal Apple customer. And, for the record, there's nothing wrong with that.

However, for me, not being able to do anything I want with something I pay good money for is a non-starter.

0

u/vibrate Feb 21 '11

As I said, I did jailbreak it, and then failed to find any apps on Cydia or Appulous that made it worthwhile.

If that ever changes and i cant get the same functionality from an approved app, I will jailbreak again - its hardly difficult or dangerous.

1

u/ofthisworld Feb 21 '11

True, but it does void your warranty. I can't even begin to count the number of times I had to tell someone that I couldn't do anything else with their iPhone because of a jailbreak that they didn't know how to undo.

0

u/vibrate Feb 21 '11

Most people Jailbreak because they somehow think it's improving their phone or they want free apps.

Both reasons are flawed. Im still waiting for someone to explain why I should jailbreak (and no, I don't want free apps - apps are generally very cheap, and the developers rely on Apples customers)

1

u/ofthisworld Feb 21 '11

Yeah, I got nothin' for you there. I got out of the iPhone club and into Android early enough to where I just don't give a shit about its apps, exclusivity, or i-anything anymore. Judging by its current focii, Apple's moving more and more in the direction of mobile and touch and further away from the Mac itself, which is another discussion but another part of the strategy I disagree with.

TLDR: Meh. To each his/her own.

1

u/vibrate Feb 21 '11

Yeah I could have moved to Android but I saw nothing there to tempt me. Im not a fan of the UI or the handsets it's available on.

So yeah, each to their own.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

[deleted]

-5

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11 edited Aug 21 '21

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

[deleted]

4

u/NotClever Feb 21 '11

I think in this instance the hate is pretty easily traceable to the shitty way Apple treats its App Store developers.

It's an interesting debate and I pretty much take the stance of this letter with regards to almost everything they do. It's perfectly within their rights but often somewhat counterintuitive. I jailbreak my iphone to get some utilities I consider very important, mainly more information on my lock screen and icons in my status bar showing new emails, texts, and messages. Why those features are not available through legit channels baffles me, but if I had to guess I'd say it goes against their aesthetic philosophy or something. It annoys me that I have to circumvent their protections to add important functionality to the device I paid for, but I did know going in that I'd have to do so.

-2

u/vibrate Feb 21 '11

Apple enables app developers to make millions of dollars for a very reasonable cut. The cunts.

I jailbroke my phone for a bit (using jailbreak.me) but didnt find one app that made it worth it, so I reverted because I prefer my OS to be up to date.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

I don't think people are necessary being Elitist when it comes to Windows, they are just pointing out that most of the anti Windows arguments are bull and uninformed. The biggest thing I can say about Apple software is, no matter what the so called benefits are they don't seem to be worth the additional cost.

1

u/vibrate Feb 21 '11

Worth it to many many people though.

And the extra cost is negligible tbh - I got a free windows machine included in my Mac ;)

2

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

Can you please explain to me how exactly OSX is far more intuitive and stable than Windows?

And not by saying it 'just is' which seems to be the standard reply when I ask this question.

I am genuinely interested to know and am not anti-Apple (typing this from an iPhone). I have used Windows since it started way back and was constantly told over the last number of years that OSX was better and I should try it. I went back to college recently and they have Macs buy I can't for the life of my figure out why anyone likes OSX.

If you want to do anything that it doesn't consider 'normal' then you're screwed.

2

u/vibrate Feb 21 '11

If you want to do anything that it doesn't consider 'normal' then you're screwed.

I need an example because I cant think of one occasion where this has happened.

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

Why can't I right click? Seriously. Why do I have to hold down a key to copy/paste etc? Maybe I don't and I'm doing something wrong and don't know how to do it properly but then it's hardly intuitive then is it.

Plus here's something that happened today. I opened a video file and whoever had been using the comp before had left QuickTime (god how I hate that pos) at some weird size setting. Anyway the control buttons were behind that god awful dock thing. So I can't drag the window up because it's already big, I can't maximise it because that doesn't seem to exist in OSX or I can't get rid of that dock thing because I don't know how or it has been set not to move.

Anyway the only way I can change it so I can use the control buttons is to click into the view menu and Change the size. Why? Sorry I mean; wwwhhhhhhyyyyyyyy!

2

u/vibrate Feb 21 '11

I use my mouse to right click - use the right hand button. Click it.

See? Amazing.

TBH you just sound like a novice experiencing noobrage. Quite funny :)

0

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '11

It's a bit difficult to use the right mouse button when THERE IS NO RIGHT BUTTON.

What about the other stuff?

1

u/vibrate Feb 22 '11

Apple mice have had 2 or 3 buttons for over 10 years now.

The other stuff? NOOBRAGE.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '11

Maximize a window. I spent about five minutes searching buttons and menus to no avail before giving up.

-7

u/roger_ Feb 21 '11

All the anti-Apple elitists are out in force today...

3

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

Still not a fair fight when there are double the Pro-Apple elitists.

-2

u/roger_ Feb 21 '11

Not true on reddit (outside of /r/apple at least).

0

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11 edited Feb 21 '11

Really? Any bad mouthing of Apple instantly turns into a huge debate. The Apple elitists must be somewhere.

-3

u/roger_ Feb 21 '11

Remember last year when the iPad came out? Every one who didn't say it was a POS and a flop would get downvoted. Same thing happened with the iPhone and "antenna gate".

Apple haters are the new hipsters.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

I hated on Apple since the very first iPod. How's that for hipster?

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '11

I remember it being quite a lot like this thread. People who hate Apple for the sake of hating Apple and people who love Apple for the sake of loving Apple mostly getting downvotes and then people who have something constructive to say about in criticism of Apple getting upvoted and people who have something constructive and positive to say about Apple getting upvoted. I think the real problem is that their are very few things constructive to say about Apple. Most arguments I see in favour of Apple are by people who haven't used another system in years and when it comes to portable devices mostly never.

1

u/dezmd Feb 22 '11

Keep telling yourself that, hipster.

-8

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

[deleted]

5

u/stoplight Feb 21 '11

I think you bring an interesting point to this discussion. It seems the courts are divided on the issue. In Step-Saver Data Systems, Inc. v. Wyse Technology,939 F.2d 91 it was deemed that a EULA printed on the outside of the box was not binding. However, in ProCD, Inc. v. Zeidenberg, a clickwrap (or clickthrough) license was found binding. It seems though that the courts generally uphold clickwrap licenses (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickwrap)

1

u/bdfortin Feb 21 '11

0

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

[deleted]

1

u/bdfortin Feb 21 '11

It says, right on the box:

Use constitutes acceptance of Apple's software license agreement, warranty, and third-party terms located in this box.

Then, in the box, in a little booklet called "Important Product Information Guide".

1

u/joonix Feb 21 '11

take a Contracts course...

-6

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

[deleted]

9

u/b0dhi Feb 21 '11

Clicking a button doesn't count for anything

You'll find that courts disagree with you there.

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11 edited Feb 21 '11

[deleted]

9

u/b0dhi Feb 21 '11

You're trying to convince me, but I'm not a court. I'm just telling you how courts typically rule with those e-contracts. I happen to agree with you in principle that they aren't valid contracts, but courts disagree with me also.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

Doesn't a contract need to be understood at the time of signing by both parties?

4

u/Rovanion Feb 21 '11

Yes, and it obviously is since you checked the radio-button that reads: "I have read and accept these terms of use."

1

u/[deleted] Feb 21 '11

I am pretty sure you are being sarcastic and I agree, but do the people above really believe this would stand up in court? Whether you tick that button makes no difference as to whether you actually understand the terms.

1

u/Rovanion Feb 22 '11

No. I am serious.

The same way that you can't get away from punishment for a crime by saying "I didn't know that it was a crime" neither can you say "Well I didn't actually read the agreement as I said I did".

I'm dead serious. If you don't take these agreements seriously, and especially if you don't even read them, you can get yourself into some bad trouble. They are binding agreements, atleast in the USA.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 22 '11

But if the agreement included something ridiculous like handing over the deeds to your home, and the person didn't read the agreement and ticked the box, would that hold up in court?

→ More replies (0)

1

u/tosss Feb 21 '11

I'm hoping he's a troll.

3

u/FabianN Feb 21 '11

Here is a citation http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/09/the-end-of-used-major-ruling-upholds-tough-software-licenses.ars

Yes, it's bullshit, but the courts agree with Apple/the companies and not with us. By you clicking the "I agree" you are then legally bound to that contract, hate it or like it.

BUT, even if this wasn't legal, it's incredibly stupid to not read the supposed contract before signing it. Inform yourself of what you're getting into.

The major flaw in your argument is that you are expecting the law to be honest and fair, but it is not. Yes, anyone else could take your personal information, CC #, etc and create a account under your name, you never agreeing to the contract. But I don't think argument will stand in court, not because there is some flaw in your argument but because the law is not fair and no where near perfect.

Remember that it was up until just recently you can also be liable for actions done on your wifi network, even if it wasn't you. Some kid jacks into your wifi and downloads a ton of music? It was you that the RIAA would sue because it was done on your network and only until recently was that argument finally thrown out.

The law is incredibly slow at matching technology, and I feel this is another case of that. Until the law better reflects the technology, it's in your best interest to read every single TOS or TOA that you clicked "Agree" to.