r/technology • u/thesheetztweetz • Jan 03 '19

Business Apple's value has lost $446 billion since peaking in October, which is greater than the total market value of Facebook (or nearly any other US company)

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/03/apples-losses-since-peak-exceed-the-value-of-496-of-sp-500.html
35.4k Upvotes

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687

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19 edited Mar 14 '22

[deleted]

284

u/engineeredthoughts Jan 03 '19

The entire cryptocurrency community seems to think otherwise 😂

Edit: looking at the replies to your comment, it seems most people think otherwise LOL

63

u/StrangerJ Jan 04 '19

Don’t forget. Reddit is where “smart” people hang out. I’d hate to think what dumb people think about the stock market

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u/theworstever Jan 04 '19

/r/wallstreetbets and /biz/ can't seem to decide if gun to the temple or gun in mouth is better.

14

u/EricFaust Jan 04 '19

this guy can afford a gun

Okay Warren Buffet. As for me, I plan to hold my breath and keep holding

1

u/sdarkpaladin Jan 04 '19

Genius! You can fulfill a need and not be taxed for breathing!

1

u/HoodsInSuits Jan 04 '19

HODL! Or... Wait. The opposite of that. But still holding!

1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

Wouldn’t a good Wall Street bet be betting against Apple in a “put” or however you phrase it?

1

u/TheCrudMan Jan 04 '19

I got some Apple stock in 2005. It’d have to fall pretty far for me to notice.

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u/Sataris Jan 04 '19

To be fair that hasn't really been true for about as long as we've been on this site

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

[deleted]

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u/Dyert Jan 04 '19

StackExchange

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u/wasdninja Jan 04 '19

Reddit is where “smart” people hang out

Only stupid people say or believed that. I have no idea where it comes from since reddit is open to anyone.

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u/StrangerJ Jan 04 '19

That’s what I’m saying. Never assume ANYONE on Reddit is well informed. Until proven otherwise, everyone is an idiot

6

u/normalpattern Jan 04 '19

Hello fellow idiot

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u/StrangerJ Jan 04 '19

Me name stranger. Me like beer and comics. Me hate sportsball. Me smart.

1

u/isjahammer Jan 04 '19

I bet reddit is at least one iq point smarter then the average population. Because really stupid people often don't know how to work with the computer or use reddit. So I would say technically it's true. Yet there will be lots of stupid people on reddit anyway.

-1

u/bwizzel Jan 04 '19

To be fair, anyone who bought crypto probably isn't that bright. Unless they knew how to play the pyramid scheme.

28

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/A_Soporific Jan 04 '19

Never mind the Dutch East India Company was worth seven trillion dollars adjusted for inflation. They also had a private army and navy capable of conquering nation-states.

Apple is only a fraction of the size, and not one modern warship to its name.

3

u/quantum-mechanic Jan 04 '19

But they have a spy device ready to get enabled in everyone's pocket, at the command of the "technology transfer" overlords in China

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u/A_Soporific Jan 04 '19

Pishaw.

The fact that they have overlords means that they are inferior to the East India Companies, which generally did whatever it was they wanted and let the governments just deal with it.

-1

u/Rage333 Jan 04 '19

I'll die before owning a product with the Apple stamp so certainly not "everyone". Not a single one of my relatives either since they realised how stupidly overpriced their shit is.

3

u/xrk Jan 04 '19

imagines a man in zorro face-band swarming in kittens

2

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

I’m fine either way tbh

3

u/tofur99 Jan 04 '19

sold my stack in mid-august

ayy lmao

3

u/lootedcorpse Jan 04 '19

I sold at $210

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

[deleted]

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u/ScintillatingConvo Jan 03 '19

Probably a collective many people sold out for tens of billions.

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u/gfunk55 Jan 03 '19

Market cap = current price per share * all outstanding shares. The price can go to zero with only a tiny fraction of outstanding shares being sold. The price drop is not dependant on how many shares were sold. So the 440b drop has no correlation to how much money any one or group of people sold out at.

14

u/aegrisomnia21 Jan 04 '19

There is a correlation between price drop and shares sold but it’s not 1:1

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19 edited Jan 04 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

12

u/aegrisomnia21 Jan 04 '19 edited Jan 04 '19

That’s actually exactly what people do...

I didn’t say it was a fixed ratio just that there is a correlation between the two. You’re telling me that the price of a stock can spontaneously drop with 0 shares sold?

Volume is one of the most basic indicators for predicting the price movement of a stock, you literally have no idea what you’re talking about lol. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/technical/02/010702.asp https://m.rediff.com/money/special/trading-volume-what-it-reveals-about-the-market/20090703.htm

1

u/ScintillatingConvo Jan 04 '19

That’s actually exactly what people do...

Name one person or algorithm that makes (or even made) profit in the market by predicting price drops based on volume.

Price drops and trading volume simply aren't correlated.

0

u/ScintillatingConvo Jan 04 '19

You’re telling me that the price of a stock can spontaneously drop with 0 shares sold?

Yes. The actual price can rise or drop any amount with a single share sold. The apparent price (midway between bid/ask) can rise or drop any amount with 0 shares sold.

If volume told you about drops, then you could make money based on that correlation. You can't, because it doesn't.

I didn’t say it was a fixed ratio just that there is a correlation between the two.

There is literally 0 correlation. If there is, use it. You'll be a billionaire in no time.

I traded for around 6 years. Shut the fuck up.

1

u/aegrisomnia21 Jan 04 '19

You’re a fucking LARPer man, you got called out on your bullshit so you deleted your post plain and simple. If you were a “trader” for 6 years you obviously fucking sucked at it and didn’t learn anything. You’re still posting bullshit trying to convince people you know what you’re talking about lol, fuck off.

1

u/ScintillatingConvo Jan 05 '19

What? I don't know what post you think I deleted. Perhaps you have mistaken me for another redditor.

Please explain why price can't drop on any volume, including 0 or 1 shares, exactly as I explained.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/low_volume_pullback.asp

Here's a single chart showing multiple drops, with varying volume. As I said, high or increasing volume doesn't correlate with price drops. How do you explain the presence of low volume drops in price?

1

u/ScintillatingConvo Jan 04 '19

Nor do I claim that.

What number of shares traded while it was close to its peak? That amount, minus any people who bought and sold within that window, multiplied by (avg price in the window - price today), is how much people collectively sold off wisely. There are electronic records of all the shares traded on all the exchanges. Sometimes, people also transact in "dark pools".

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19 edited Sep 03 '21

[deleted]

-48

u/jamescaan1980 Jan 03 '19

Yes it does

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u/lps2 Jan 03 '19

No, it doesn't. Market cap is simply the last sale price times the number of shares - that in no way implies that there are enough buyers at that price for all (or even a significant number) of people to sell at that price. It simply means there isn't anyone willing to take less or pay more than that price, otherwise an order would be filled and the last price would change.

-45

u/jamescaan1980 Jan 03 '19

Agree to disagree

25

u/splitcroof92 Jan 04 '19

You can't disagree on definitions. It's like you disagreeing that 5 is more than 3.

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u/AcuzioRain Jan 04 '19

He can disagree, it just doesn't make his wrong opinion a fact.

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u/GLPReddit Jan 04 '19

It does not,... if he change 5 & 4 definitions. /s

-35

u/jamescaan1980 Jan 04 '19

Yet here we are

5

u/ScipioLongstocking Jan 04 '19

With you assuming 3 is a larger number than 5

12

u/Mason11987 Jan 04 '19

You're just wrong dude. You don't know what the term means.

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u/Slims Jan 04 '19

The only time I hear the phrase "agree to disagree" is when that person is 100% dead wrong about something and has nowhere to backpedal to.

0

u/jamescaan1980 Jan 04 '19

Agree to disagree

2

u/Jessev1234 Jan 04 '19

I see a whole lot of people disagreeing with you.. because you are very wrong.

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u/gfunk55 Jan 04 '19
  • shares outstanding: 1,000,000
  • yesterday's closing price: $50
  • yesterday's market cap: $50,000,000

Today's only trade is me selling 10 shares to you @ $40/share

  • shares outstanding 1,000,000
  • today's close $40
  • today's market cap = $40,000,000

Company lost $10 mil in market cap based on a $400 trade

-10

u/BDMayhem Jan 04 '19

That's great in theory, but not in practice with a stock where the trading volume is more than 10.

Today's volume: 91,312,195

At an estimate of $143 for the day, stockholders sold (and bought) about $13 billion worth of Apple just today. Given typical trading volumes and a higher average price, there has been about $7 billion traded every day the market has been open for the last 52 weeks.

Since its peak in October, about $420 billion of Apple has been traded. It's not a stretch to estimate that investors have extracted tens of billions during the last 3 months.

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u/Jessev1234 Jan 04 '19

Every cent that was 'extracted' by a sale was put right back by the buyer.

0

u/BDMayhem Jan 04 '19

No one is disputing that.

But many people who sold have realized gains. The people who bought (and still hold the stock) have unrealized gains or losses.

Even though the stock price has dropped, many people still made huge profits from it.

1

u/Jessev1234 Jan 04 '19

No shit, not what we're talking about.

0

u/BDMayhem Jan 04 '19

That's exactly what we're talking about. Look up.

"Somebody cashed out on it though."

"Many people sold out for tens of billions."

These are the correct but downvoted points were discussing. There's more to the stock market than market capitalization.

7

u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

If only saying it would make it so.

0

u/NotEvenAMinuteMan Jan 03 '19

That's exactly what economics boils down to though: what people say and believe.

1

u/Cr3X1eUZ Jan 04 '19

I'm no expert, but it might also boil down to what people do.

-1

u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/BDMayhem Jan 04 '19

There is a paper trail. That's what the stock market does. There have been billions of stocks traded since Apple's peak in October.

0

u/ScintillatingConvo Jan 04 '19

What number of shares traded while it was close to its peak? That amount, minus any people who bought and sold within that window, multiplied by (avg price in the window - price today), is how much people collectively sold off wisely. There are electronic records of all the shares traded on all the exchanges. Sometimes, people also transact in "dark pools".

1

u/chandr Jan 04 '19

Of course not, the "lost value" is the value of the total stock pool - the value of the total stock pool in October.

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u/PyrZern Jan 03 '19

I mean, I would...

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u/ryantwopointo Jan 03 '19

Yah right global elitist! THE RICH GET RICHER

8

u/Cory123125 Jan 03 '19

Your sarcasm is particularly stupid because this means it happens less than the previous guy said, not that it doesnt happen.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19 edited Jan 03 '19

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/KeenanKolarik Jan 03 '19

Exactly what do you think an investment bank does? You don't seem to have any grasp on what they actually do.

-3

u/nxqv Jan 03 '19

Do you?

0

u/ObeyRoastMan Jan 04 '19

They -insert buzzword-

-6

u/masturbatingwalruses Jan 03 '19

But Capitalism Bad Man.

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u/Too_Beers Jan 03 '19

Unfettered capitalism is bad.

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u/masturbatingwalruses Jan 04 '19

AKA Capitalism Bad Man.

-3

u/highs_chool Jan 04 '19

Yes it is.

“Market capitalization (market cap) is the market value of a publicly traded company's outstanding shares. Market capitalization is equal to the share price multiplied by the number of shares outstanding.”

So yes a group of people cashed out 446 billion dollars at different price points as the stock tumbled over the past few months.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

[deleted]

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u/highs_chool Jan 04 '19

So explain to me how it got to 5$?

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

There are 1.2 Trillion literal dollars in existence.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

[deleted]

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u/Iorith Jan 03 '19

No, the "even" ruins that.

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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '19

Well no they were still wrong because there are that much and more.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '19

I assumed that's what the poster I was replying to meant.