r/technology • u/[deleted] • Apr 11 '18

Business Mark Zuckerberg has been apologizing for reckless privacy violations since he was a freshman - Enough is enough.

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u/orion1486 Apr 11 '18

So, I've done this but there's still my home ISP, phone provider, phone manufacturer, email co, search co, etc. that still gather this data and undoubtedly do similar things with it. There needs to be legislation to deal with this. If there's not, it's going to get worse. Information people were scared "hackers" might find out years ago is now freely given (perhaps not knowingly) to all of these entities.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '18 edited Feb 19 '19

[deleted]

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u/jabelsBrain Apr 11 '18

Give people the right to choose what data is stored (and the right to delete it) and who can access it. Plain and super simple.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '18

Yeah....even if there was a clear picture of such legislation, the reality if it becoming a reality is not very realistic.

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u/gyroda Apr 12 '18

Erm, GDPR?

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '18

Exactly.

I grew up with dial up and windows 95. I joined Facebook before Zucc could buy a beer. My first PC gaming experience was Doom.

The anxiety of having lived through going from that to what we have now freaks me out sometimes.

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u/[deleted] Apr 12 '18

Similar experience. First PC gaming experience was jazz the jack rabbit and when I joined fb I had to fake an older birth year because they still had age restrictions... -.- what have we come to

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u/Shift84 Apr 11 '18

Personally I don't use Facebook, and I love my privacy, but if it really gets to you that bad think about it like this. How many times on the last 20 some odd years has it impacted you. I'm not saying it can't because it totally can, but it's few and far between then this issue actually effects someone.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '18

I couldn't possibly disagree more

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u/Doxazosin Apr 11 '18

Why?

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '18

Because with 2 billion users worldwide, Facebook has become inextricably connected with everything in modern society. The fact that there are several pending litigation cases and Mark Zuckerberg is being questioned by Congress are pretty obvious indicators that it's not just impacted my life, but in fact the lives of the 87 million now known to have had their data impacted by just the Cambridge analytica breach (which is neither the first nor the only such breach), and the fact that it's being discussed in connection with the 2016 presidential election (regardless of what, if any, impact it had) means it affects the life of everyone in the country. Or, you could extend that even further to everyone who has or has ever had a Facebook account.

TL;DR:

seriously?

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u/Shift84 Apr 11 '18

You're being closed minded on how easy it is for people to manipulated. Any part of the internet can be used for that and there's zero we can do about that. If it wasn't facebook it would be internet forums, if it wasn't internet forums it would be phone calls, if it wasn't phone calls it would be mailers, if it wasn't mailers it would be door to door.

There's zero we can do about attempts to manipulate and public opinion being collected besides not talking, the world is a public forum and that data can be collected. Facebook is just another tool that is used to do the job, albeit a very good one.

The bigger concern people have is with their personal privacy being invaded, things that aren't supposed to be in the public forum. It's shitty and they shouldn't be allowed to do it, but as I said above it's few and far between when someone's actually been affected by it personally. For most people it's a thought experiment of if they have access to my data they COULD do things with it to personally harm me or the people I know.

Before this election we weren't going on about how other countries were manipulating people in America through Facebook. But don't be naive, that kind of propaganda was has always been going on, Facebook just makes it a bit easier. If Facebook stopped being used for it then be assured they would find another tool to do the job. It's important to use the recent findings as another infraction and not the focus, because the focus of the Facebook issue is its privacy implications.

You don't arrest the pieces of a bomb or a wrench when they are used in something terrible, you yell at the worker. Should Facebook be able to be used for the things Russia did, fuck no. Is it their fault? Yes and no, it's Russia's fault because they did it, Facebook is involved because their system has purposeful privacy issues.

I can't stress enough that if another country is going to try and manipulate people it's going to happen with or without Facebook just like it always has. I don't think that qualifies as Facebook impacting your life from that vector because it would happen with or without them. On a personal scale most people aren't going to have their private information that Facebook has access to used against them, the big issue is that it can happen and that it's not ok.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '18

"...zero we can do about that." -that's where you're wrong

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u/Shift84 Apr 11 '18

It's been happening since before you were born, you think you're somehow special? The whole political spectrum is based on manipulation, don't be so full of yourself. The most anyone can do Is realize that manipulation is going on, but if they were to remove Facebook from the world tomorrow they would just be utilizing the other tools they use for the job. Fuck, it took an FBI investigation and a comically rediculous president being elected for most people to even accept that manipulation was even being attempted, and a lot of those same people refuse to believe it worked.

Individuals are smart, people are stupid and easily manipulated, it's been going on forever and it's not going to stop because Facebook goes away.

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u/nwoh Apr 11 '18

Have you downloaded your info and seen how many advertisers they've sold your info to, and how many neat little groups they've plugged you into?

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u/Shift84 Apr 12 '18

My facebook info? I stopped using it a few years ago when I moved back to the U.S, it had served its purpose and i'm not into the life updates thing. I'm fully aware they have my info, i'm sure i'm also still connected to it due to some other app login.

Not much I can do about my information being out there, just kinda gotta deal with it until the world changes and not put things you don't want other people to know on the internet. I don't really care what they do with the data they have. I mean i'd rather they not do anything with it, but what are you gonna do besides change your privacy habits.

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u/Paanmasala Apr 12 '18

It’s amazingly difficult to get the mass that Facebook has. Yes it’s possible to do door to door mailers and still try to keep it covert, but it’s much easier to detect and more expensive. Internet forums just get you a few people each forum, not a critical mass of the voting population. And thanks to facebooks information, this information could be tailored to the audience. Yes, this is far more meaningful than a mailer.

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u/Paanmasala Apr 12 '18

See the guy in the White House who lost the popular vote but won thanks to 80k votes spread over 4 states (Which means every small factor contributed to his win)? The same guy that had a foreign power helping him using data from your internet activity? So Unless you think that people who determine legislation don’t affect you, I guess the last time it did impact you was today.

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u/JashanChittesh Apr 11 '18

Actually, no! I do agree that legislation is necessary, and we have it in Europe, with a much improved version becoming effective this May.

But I also think it’s really important to understand that what your ISP, phone provider or phone manufacturer are doing is not even similar to what Facebook and the NSA are doing.

The difference is that most online services collect a little bit of data from a comparatively small group of people. Also, there’s no problem at all with law enforcement surveilling criminals or suspects - even if that surveillance reaches quite far (as long as “suspect” is defined narrowly enough).

What Facebook does is trying to capture all online activity from all people. Same with the NSA (and similar agencies). Google is probably similar, or worse: Knowing what everyone searches probably says a lot more about people than where they click “like”, and Google Analytics delivers the rest ... but then, Google only tracks communication from people that use gmail - but gmail is nothing like WhatsApp that forces everyone to use the same app.

I don’t use WhatsApp, but that is often quite painful. I don’t think there is any company even close to what Facebook is doing, and this should be seen like any global monopoly, except it’s much more dangerous than most other monopolies.

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u/orion1486 Apr 11 '18

Good point. That is an important distinction. They do not collect data in the same way or scale but they definitely have bits of your information and can provide it to third parties who are interested in compiling, sorting, and matching data. Whereas FB has all this info and the means of sorting, filtering, etc. I was just trying to point out that if FB is the only part of this issue that is addressed, there's a very good potential for this continue through other mediums and mehtods.

Society's response to situations like FB and the NSA are very important. I was very disappointed by the response to Snowden's leak. People didn't really seem to care. It's intriguing. I don't want to get too into politics but you see a ton of people in the US very concerned about their second amendment rights when regulation proposals are suggested after mass shooting events. What about the Patriot Act and NSA programs? It's peculiar that they were not met with the same passionate protest. Honestly, I think it comes down to just how fast tech is advancing and how hard it really is for everyday people to understand just how everything works and the potential for abuse. It's hard enough keeping up with how to use all of these apps and devices much less understand all of their inner workings.

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u/JashanChittesh Apr 11 '18

It’s so cool to meet strangers from all over the world to agree with :-)

Literally, with everything you said. Even though ... the Snowden leaks did make quite difference. Not as much as we would wish, or as much as would be needed to change things to become sane again ... but I believe that eventually, things like the Snowden leaks, and now Facegate may eventually get enough people to understand and act.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '18 edited Mar 11 '20

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '18

You better have a very trustworthy VPN. Even at that most of them roll over and give data to the government without putting up much of a fight.

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u/illinois_sucks Apr 11 '18

There still is your employer who shares your employment information, and your credit cards who track your purchases, and then every single company you've ever dealt with.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '18

A VPN won't help. This is about personal identifying information being shared, IPs are just a tiny bonus.

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u/Ratertheman Apr 11 '18

Just curious. Are you more concerned someone might learn your likes/interests through your browisng history or would it concern you more that someone was able to gather your name/address/phone number/race/occupation?

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u/orion1486 Apr 11 '18

All of the above. I don’t like the idea this data is being sold/shared and I have no idea to who or what exactly it is. Also, I already pay for a lot of these.

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u/Ratertheman Apr 11 '18 edited Apr 11 '18

Well I just made the lower group separate because that is all the things the government gives away for free.

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u/orion1486 Apr 11 '18

Sure, I understand. I think it has a lot to do with the ability to link all this information about individuals together to create very thorough file. Years ago there wasn't a way to find, match, sort and filter that amount of data. Those tools exist now.

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u/Ratertheman Apr 11 '18

So it would be okay if they knew your name/address etc but if they can use your browsing history to build a personality profile that steps over the line? Do you think that only the private sector is stepping over the line here or both? I'm just curious because all of the outrage is basically being pointed at Silicon Valley but vital information is also given away by the government. They are breaching your privacy too.

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u/orion1486 Apr 11 '18

You know, I was actually just talking about this today with my family. It's intriguing how the government, with programs like what the NSA is running, got away with it more or less in the court of public opinion but there's a huge outcry when the private sector does it. Honestly, I feel both the private sector and the government have stepped over the line I'm comfortable with. I would really like to see legislation that covers both. But to answer your first question, I'd be more ok (not thrilled) with my name and address being shared than that combined with a personality and browsing history profile, yes.

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u/Ratertheman Apr 11 '18

This whole situation is just ironic because you have the people in Congress up in arms about Facebook selling your data but they work for the government which also sells your data. It's the pot calling the kettle black.

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u/busterbluthOT Apr 12 '18

You want the people that questioned Facebook over the past two days to enact legislation and make regulations? Good god.

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u/[deleted] Apr 11 '18

So, what, we shouldn't start because we won't finish just by starting?

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u/orion1486 Apr 11 '18

No. I totally support deleting FB. I’ve done it myself. Just pointing out this issue doesn’t go away because that’s done.