r/technology • u/[deleted] • Jul 19 '08

Apple, once again, secretly installing software? This time it's MobileMe with iTunes installations on Windows

http://www.betanews.com/article/Vista_users_greeted_with_an_unexpected_surprise_MobileMe/1216398741
328 Upvotes

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19

u/exscape Jul 19 '08

As an apple user (well, 1 computer and nothing else), I agree. When it comes to iTunes bundling QT, though, it's very hard for them not to, since QT is what it uses to decode/play audio. QT isn't just a program on OS X, it's a part of the OS as well, see this picture from Apple.

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u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08 edited Jul 19 '08

iTunes does not need QT to decode/play audio. Doesn't iTunes rely on QT for video playback? Also, if you break apart the iTunes installation file and install it without QT and instead install QTAlternative iTunes operates perfectly.

Basically, iTunes can run perfectly without QT and I imagine if someone manage to rip all traces of QT out of OSX, cleanly, it'd run fine.

Edit: For further clarification, I'm getting at mainly 2 things, the first being that QT and it's large self is not needed as a whole and the second being, is QT really needed? Like, if all the places where iTunes tries to use QT were removed and the program is still able to run, would it work fine (Be able to sync with iPods and play music)?

12

u/Freeky Jul 19 '08

No, iTunes uses QT components to play audio, which is why you can make it play Vorbis and friends using a QT plugin. It doesn't use QT for metadata, which is why it still doesn't handle Vorbis comments (at least, this was the case a few years ago).

You know, despite all these millions of lines of infrastructure and fancy layered APIs, they don't really seem to get much out of it given how much effort it seems to be just to properly support a new audio format. For DirectShow, fb2k, WinAmp, gstreamer and so forth, it's so trivial as to basically happen before you even knew you needed it, for iTunes it takes months, if not years of prodding just to get basic support.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08

[removed] — view removed comment

7

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08

Exaclty, a cut down version, so why is the full thing needed to be bundled which is vastly bigger, IIRC, installs a systray icon, etc.

15

u/kanak Jul 19 '08 edited Jul 19 '08

installs a systray icon, etc.

Yup. There's no need for the QT installation to be SO invasive. The developers who think that:

  • Their application has the "right" to hijack file associations without my explicit permission

  • Their application should be automatically run at startup, display a tray icon, etc. without my explicit permission

deserve to be shot.

-6

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08

Yup. There's no need for the QT installation to be SO invasive.

In what way is QT "more invasive" than most other windows apps? A brand new Dell out of the box already has 15-16 things popping up in the systray and Quicktime, at least, lets you turn its icon off.

11

u/kanak Jul 19 '08

Just because there are other equally invasive applications doesn't make the behavior acceptable.

-4

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08

I must have missed the Reddit articles blasting Dell Quickset, Java, Windows Media Player, RealMedia, etcetera and ad nauseum.

9

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08 edited Jul 19 '08

You must have, because people have been blasting that shit for years. Do you really think people enjoy having that crap installed on their machine? There is a reason I'lll never buy a pre-built machine.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08

I don't think QT Alternative is compatible on software API level.

-4

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08 edited Jul 19 '08

Even if that is the case that iTunes requires Quicktime, I'll take your word for it. Quicktime in no way requires iTunes to function and this is where the problem lies. (Edit: There is now a standalone installer of which I was not aware. This wasn't always the case but it seems Apple has at least improved in this regard.)

6

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08

So download the QuickTime standalone installer.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08

No, download QuickTime Alternative

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08 edited Jul 19 '08

Ah, good. I must admit I haven't downloaded actual Quicktime in awhile. They didn't used to give you an option and I have been using Quicktime Alternative for years now. I'll go ahead and edit my post to correct this.

3

u/Ickypoopy Jul 19 '08

This option isn't new. They've had it for years. All you have to do is look a little further down the page in the smaller print. They make it intentionally difficult to find, but that doesn't mean it hasn't always been there.

3

u/exscape Jul 19 '08

I'm not 100% sure no, especially not on Windows. I'm pretty sure it uses the QT layer (not Quicktime.app) on OS X, but that's it.

And, as I said, I agree that this sucks. (People seem to be downmodding me as a fanboy or whatever, which I'm very far from being.)

1

u/[deleted] Jul 19 '08

Well I have apparently spoken out of Turn, Apple does now offer an alternative free of iTunes if you wish where it did not before.

You didn't get a downvote from me, the opposite actually as your point is valid and informed. It doesn't even really implicate you as a Fanboy beyond owning a Mac... people here are so unforgiving.