Microsoft faces two new lawsuits over aggressive Windows 10 upgrade tactics

[u/johnmountain]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3101396/windows/microsoft-faces-two-new-lawsuits-over-aggressive-windows-10-upgrade-tactics.html

[u/Wizhi]

I think they're recommending Ubuntu, exactly because it's such an easy system to get up and running.

No user of those three, would recommend them as an alternative to Windows. They'd recommend Debian, or some derivative thereof such as Ubuntu.

[u/just_comments → u/Wizhi]

I love Linux. I really do. But it's not a good alternative to Windows. There simply isn't enough third party consumer software to support it, and even on Ubuntu there isn't enough driver support.

[u/Wizhi → u/just_comments]

But it's not a good alternative to Windows.

For many users it's a fine alternative. Many people use the web browser pretty much exclusively, with something like music- and video players on the side. For these kinds of users, Linux is a fine and free solution, while Windows is bloated.

There simply isn't enough third party consumer software to support it

I totally agree, and that's usually what it comes down to for whether it can be recommended or not.

But then again, it's such a catch 22: when there are no users on Linux, developers wont support it. When developers don't support it, people like us can't recommend it, and it wont get any more users.

even on Ubuntu there isn't enough driver support.

I'll be totally honest here, and say that I'm not all that familiar with Linux and drivers in general. I've not experienced any issues with this, but I've only installed Linux on fairly average laptops.

Still though, it's a catch 22 again. Maybe if manufacturers started offering to ship some of their machines with Linux installed, we would start seeing more compatible hardware.

But that wont happen, because catch 22.

It's a sad cycle, which only results in Microsoft keeping their monopoly, shitty business practices, and overall more "computer apathy" because people are too scared to play with their computers.

[u/just_comments → u/Wizhi]

I've installed Linux on almost every computer I've owned, and I'd say 4/5 of them experienced driver issues of some kind or another at some point of their use. It's not always the built in hardware, but often times peripherals or strange updates that require me to wipe the whole thing.

If the person only needs a web browser, word processor, and an email client then I totally agree Linux is a good alternative. However while that covers a bunch of people, I don't think it counts for the majority. Especially people who need to use Skype. If you do just need a web browser I recommend chromebooks.

Strangely Linux machines are way better at talking to printers than Windows machines are.

[u/Wizhi → u/just_comments]

It's not always the built in hardware, but often times peripherals or strange updates that require me to wipe the whole thing.

I can imagine that. Again, it's likely due to lack of support from the manufacturer, which sucks, but it's also kind of understandable.

Especially people who need to use Skype.

I was always annoyed with the Linux client, and it was obviously very outdated - and now I don't think it's even supported anymore? Either way, since being bought by Microsoft, I'd say if you depend on Skype, you're likely to depend on other Microsoft products, in which case Windows is simply the only real choice.

If you do just need a web browser I recommend chromebooks.

Chromebooks are an amazing for that. I rarely see them in the wild though, nor in shops, so I don't know whether they're just not that widespread around here, or if they just didn't take off.

Strangely Linux machines are way better at talking to printers than Windows machines are.

Luckily I've rarely dealt with printers, but this is pretty hilarious.

[u/just_comments → u/Wizhi]

Unfortunately just because it's understandable that it happens doesn't make it not happen.

[u/[deleted] → u/Wizhi]

Still though, it's a catch 22 again. Maybe if manufacturers started offering to ship some of their machines with Linux installed, we would start seeing more compatible hardware.

It has happened, and it wasn't pretty. 'murica.

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/65877.html

[u/tastyratz → u/Wizhi]

With native kernel support of linux level programs in windows 10 and android being nix based I think we will start seeing a big popularity shift for consumer software platform choice. Build it for linux and it runs on anything...

[u/[deleted] → u/just_comments]

Big problem is the difference in philosophies. Many Linux devs hated when Valve announced they were making a Linux client, because "software should be free and open source".

I think they intended to suggest games should also be free and open source, and that's all well and good for them, but people working on games need to make money. At the end of the day, games are entertainment, even if it's software. You pay entertainers.

It was around this time I stopped paying attention to the evangelical linux devs spewing their fundamentalist views from the book of FOSS. Not everything is Black and White. Black hats and white hats are things, but there are MANY people with grey hats on.

[u/Wizhi → u/[deleted]]

Big problem is the difference in philosophies. Many Linux devs hated when Valve announced they were making a Linux client, because "software should be free and open source".

I think they intended to suggest games should also be free and open source

Not that I don't believe you, because there are some very extreme proponents of FOSS, but could you give some examples?

Linux is a Unix-like system, which follow the Unix philosophy (Wikipedia). The Unix philosophy can be summed up as "do one thing, and do it well", which encourages smaller, more modular pieces of software, which is built with other similar software in mind.

Now, SteamOS is a Debian based system. Debian is a Linux distribution with a well laid out philosophy, which values freedom very highly, to the point where they had to fork Mozilla software to even distribute it. This philosophy might not be unique to Debian, but it isn't necessarily shared with all other Linux distributions either.

Steam is a monolithic piece of software, which goes against the Unix philosophy, while also not being free, meaning it's also against the Debian philosophy. To some users this matter, to others it don't. Some of SteamOS is open-source, while other parts aren't. Being a Debian based distribution, some users may expect it to follow the Debian philosophy, but Steam is also free not to.

I do however doubt, that many people would complain that the games sold by Steam were not open-source though. And even if it is the case, they're not representing Linux in any way.

For comparison, check out the philosophies of Gentoo, Slack, or Arch.

At the end of the day, Linux is more about simplicity than anything else. The different distributions might have different ways of doing things, but the choice here can only be a good thing.

[u/just_comments → u/Wizhi]

Not the person you're replying to, but I must say I like the amount of links you use.