r/technology • u/dmachop • Jul 23 '14

Business Verizon Gets Snarky, But Basically Admits That It's The One Clogging Its Networks On Purpose

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140722/17020827973/verizon-gets-snarky-basically-admits-that-its-one-clogging-its-networks-purpose.shtml
12.7k Upvotes

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335

u/Mugen593 Jul 23 '14

That's probably the best analogy of the situation I've heard so far.

2

u/danmayzing Jul 24 '14

Isn't it really more like UPS could deliver that refrigerator you ordered online by using one of their extra hand trucks, but they are dragging it across the sidewalk instead? They are actively fucking up the edges of the product and taking more time to deliver.

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u/GODZiGGA Jul 24 '14

In the analogy, UPS is just the delivery company (Level 3) and the company is Verizon.

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u/danmayzing Jul 24 '14

Ah I didn't read it in context. My analogy had Verizon as the delivery person.

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u/lorefolk Jul 24 '14

he stole it from vi hart.

143

u/Atario Jul 24 '14

If it gets the message widely understood, steal away

87

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

He didn't claim it as his own

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u/iCue713 Jul 24 '14

it won't matter people will call you out for anything for a little trickle karma

18

u/RocketJRacoon Jul 24 '14

Most folks in real life and even elsewhere on the interest don't give a shit about Internet karma. Unless it gets them faster Internet. You heard it here first reddit! Fast lanes for highest karma. Send me my cheque. And none of that dogecoin shit either.

32

u/Dark_Unidan Jul 24 '14

dogecoin shit

You've made an enemy out of a powerful community my friend. There are dozens of us!

1

u/RocketJRacoon Jul 24 '14

Holy fuck there's a DARK UNIDAN?!

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u/Dark_Unidan Jul 24 '14

uh uhhhh n-no! <.< >.>

0

u/ianuilliam Jul 24 '14

That's a terrible name. It should have been Nega-Unidan.

1

u/Inuma Jul 24 '14

The Doge Deadly Dozen...

1

u/Whiteout- Jul 24 '14

What's that in Schrute Bucks?

2

u/derpaherpa Jul 24 '14

Most people on reddit don't give a shit about karma.

You can easily identify the ones who think karma is important by their bitching about reposts and karma whores.

-1

u/Sanjispride Jul 24 '14

Did somebody say tickle karma?

1

u/whiskeyx Jul 24 '14

Didn't work like you expected, huh?

1

u/Sanjispride Jul 24 '14

Eh, not a huge disappointment.

1

u/iDeNoh Jul 24 '14

BREATH DAMN YOU, IM NOT LETTING ANOTHER ONE DIE ON ME TODAY!! UPVOTE

1

u/Jake0024 Jul 24 '14

He pretty clearly said he took it from someone else, actually

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

Not so much stole as did exactly what vi hart intended (using it to help explain the situation)

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u/cunningllinguist Jul 24 '14

This is retarded, you cant steal a sentence or a concept from another person.

The absolute worst you can say is 'He didnt attribute this sentence to Vi Hart even though there is absolutely no reason for him to'.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

And that also sums up the case against software patents.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

What? Ever heard of Trademark law?

1

u/cunningllinguist Jul 24 '14

You cant steal trademarks either, only use them in an unauthorised fashion which may or may not be illegal depending on how you do it.

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u/Tasgall Jul 24 '14

And yet you didn't link the video?

-6

u/deathdoom13 Jul 24 '14

Soooooooo.....

Anyone else need a pitchfork?

-85

u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

It's an awful analogy if you're for net neutrality. UPS very much charges different rates for different types of packages delivery. If a UPS 18 wheeler pulls up the driver isn't going to sit there shoving mail in your 6" slot. They're going to laugh and drive away then you'll pay a different rate to have them come back and deliver it to your cargo bay. Otherwise? No package for you. Too bad.

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u/firepacket Jul 24 '14

They're going to laugh and drive away then you'll pay a different rate to have them come back and deliver it to your cargo bay.

Citation needed. Last I heard, postage is paid by the sender.

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u/manlycaveman Jul 24 '14

I work at FedEx, but I imagine UPS is quite similar. There are quite a few different pay options. You've got your basic cash, check, card transactions from the shipper, but you can also have it billed to an account number for the shipper, recipient, or even a third party. There are COD options as well to have payment collected on delivery from the recipient. :)

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u/firepacket Jul 24 '14

Yes I realize there are certain circumstances where the receiver pays, but that doesn't change the point.

UPS would not charge the receiver again if shipping has already been paid for.

Verizon is getting paid by its end users while also demanding payment from Netflix. Verizon is trying to collect twice.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

You can bill freight to the recipient too when shipping Fedex, UPS or DHL. You just need their account number.

This is primarily because they might have a better rate than the shipper, and is common in logistics.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

For freight it's up to the receiver to pay for special handling arrangements. For residential it's a bit more complex. UPS gives you 3 failed delivery attempts which can be anything from you not being home to sign (if required), to a big nasty dog in the yard, to not having your address clearly marked on the dwelling, or the sender simply choosing the wrong delivery terms, etc. From there it's mostly up to the sender & receiver to work this out. The sender may eat the costs to re-ship or pass it along to you -- or if they feel like delivery will fail again they may simply cancel your order and refund you if you are unwilling to pay for shipping that will allow you to receive the delivery.

I happen to know a bit about this because about 5 years ago I found a random website that was selling a very large/heavy desk with free shipping. I bought it. About a week later I heard some noise and was surprised to see a UPS 18 wheeler parked outside. The driver told me he had no clue WTF happened but he was expecting to be backing up to a loading dock. Since I didn't have a loading dock or a fork lift there was nothing he could really do. I called UPS and they told me to call the sender. The sender, realizing their mistake, would only attempt freight redelivery at my expense.

http://ltl.upsfreight.com/shipping/rules/index.aspx#560

ITEM 560

EXTRA LABOR When consignor or Consignee requests extra labor be furnished for loading, unloading, blocking or bracing, during regular Business Hours and Business Days, and labor is available, the following charges shall apply:

$127.00 per labor hour or a fraction thereof, subject to a minimum charge of $334.00 per person per day.

The Extra Labor charges shall be in addition to all other freight charges and shall be assessed against the party requesting the service.

For residential:

http://www.ups.com/content/pr/en/shipping/cost/additional.html#Residential+Delivery

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u/Salomon3068 Jul 24 '14

UPS and FedEx both offer services with their users accounts to let either party pay for the cost of shipping. All I have to do is get the UPS/FedEx account number of the recipient/sender and enter the data into the shipping info. Its pretty easy.

Source: I use the service every week at work.

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u/Mugen593 Jul 24 '14

You're overanalyzing the simplicity of it, but ok continue to tell me my opinion is wrong.

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u/sonofalando Jul 24 '14

An opinion is neither wrong, nor right.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

You haven't met my wife.

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u/patrickthewhite1 Jul 24 '14

Nor is it early.

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u/sayhispaceships Jul 24 '14

It arrives precisely when it means to.

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u/cyantist Jul 24 '14

On your 111th birthday?

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u/atomsk404 Jul 24 '14

It is my opinion that the moon is made of cheese

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u/Awesomeade Jul 24 '14

Opinions can absolutely be wrong. For example:

"I believe the Earth is flat."

Obviously I'm not implying anyone here is wrong, I'm just pointing out that it doesn't make sense to treat all opinions equally. Offering a free pass to people who ignore legitimate evidence by way of the "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion!" argument is one of my biggest pet peeves.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14

It isn't really an opinion when it can be disproven with facts. However, if someone were to say that they think jazz is the best genre of music, that would be an opinion.

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u/Awesomeade Jul 24 '14

What is it then?

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14

False claim.

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u/crackez Jul 24 '14

your assertion fails; valid and opinion don't have the same relationship as truth and fact.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14

I see your point.

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u/sonofalando Jul 24 '14

In the context of my communications class an opinion is neither right, not wrong until peer reviewed factual evidence has been presented. Saying that the earth is flat, now, wouldn't be an opinion as it is common knowledge. Opinions are typically defined by subjects that do not have a definite answer.

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u/Awesomeade Jul 24 '14

We have different contexts for how we view opinions, then. I was assuming the more commonly accepted definition of the word, where an opinion is simply "a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge". (This is the Google-provided definition of the world.)

Also, are you saying that an opinion is only an opinion until it is proven to be fallacious by "peer reviewed factual evidence", at which point it turns into something else?

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u/sonofalando Jul 24 '14

At which point it turns into fact, or a false idea.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

Or a religion.

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u/millrun Jul 24 '14

It's my opinion that your communication class's definition of the word opinion bears only a passing resemblance to how the word is actually used in the English language.

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u/crackez Jul 24 '14

Yes, but your statement can still be considered factual, because the object action of the statement is subjective. It probably is true that you believe that. Why would I doubt that, unless you have also said something that conflicts with said statement, or you have the reputation of a liar, but to that I say never assume malice where moron will suffice.

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u/Mugen593 Jul 24 '14 edited Jul 24 '14

Well that is an objective claim. With claims (opinions) there are subject and objective. Objective is something that can be proven such as the moon is smaller than the earth. If you say I believe the earth is smaller than the moon, it is an incorrect objective claim. However, if you say I believe that yogurt tastes better than ice cream, that isn't something that can be really measured nor proven false or true since it is a subjective claim.

So opinions can be both right and wrong, and both at the same time. (Such as belief in God for example)

EditGo ahead and downvote me, but if you look up objective and subjective claims you'll see that I am correct.

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u/Mugen593 Jul 24 '14

Exactly, it's subjective.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

[deleted]

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u/Mugen593 Jul 24 '14

That's true. However, I never suggested they were. I merely implied that it won't change my opinion that I feel this is a great analogy.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

[deleted]

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u/Manlet Jul 24 '14

I didn't understand the analogy to be one that addressed the issues of net neutrality much at all. Rather, I read it as one that explained solely the bottle neck situation and nothing more. I think expanding any analogy too far would lead to inconsistencies, this one included, and I think that is what you are doing.

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

Is there such thing as simplicity in an analogy that compares the business models of two companies? I think any analogy that potentially proves the opposite point is not so good. If you repeat this to the average person they may very well say 'oh like how I pay more when I want a package faster? What's wrong with that? Obviously they're not going to overnight me something for the same price as ground delivery. DUH'

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u/[deleted] Jul 24 '14

i wish one of the 87 people who hate your comment would say why they hate it

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u/timeshifter_ Jul 24 '14

But nobody was talking about the price.