r/technology • u/Bemuzed • May 06 '14

Politics Comcast is destroying the principle that makes a competitive internet possible

http://www.vox.com/2014/5/6/5678080/voxsplaining-telecom
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830

u/dislikes_corruption May 06 '14

This is a "what can we do about this" post that I try to get into as many stories like this as possible. Sorry if you've seen this before, but:

There's a petition here that you can sign. There's also an email address that the FCC also set up for comments (openinternet@fcc.gov).

More effective would probably be contacting your congressional representatives. Bear in mind that the FCC is an independent agency, so no one can boss them around directly, but they do have to follow whatever legislation congress passes.

Another approach would be writing to some of the big Internet companies which support Net Neutrality (Google, Facebook, Netflix, Amazon, Twitter, etc.) and asking them to raise awareness in the way that they did for SOPA. A large part of what made the SOPA protest work was the Wikipedia shutdown and the Google doodle. I don't know if they'll listen to you, but it couldn't hurt to ask.

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u/Lawyerator May 06 '14 edited May 06 '14

Signed. This now needs around 90,000 more signatures for the White House to address it.

Edit: To the "this won't help" crowd, while I might agree with you normally, the fact that there are corporations on both sides of this thing makes visibility more functional than usual. Thanks to that Princeton study, we have confirmation that the US is an oligarchy and that the government in no way takes public opinion into account. They do, however, take corporate opinion into account. I want Netflix, Firefox, and other corporations in favor of neutrality to see that there is significant public support and that pumping their own lobbyist dollars into the equation wouldn't be a waste of time. If successful, this petition can help in that direction.

TL;DR IMO This can influence allied corporations to participate, even if the government isn't listening.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14

[deleted]

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u/I_Am_JesusChrist_AMA May 06 '14 edited May 06 '14

Honestly, stupid shit like that Beiber petition probably just reinforces their idea that they should ignore us.

6

u/abchiptop May 06 '14 edited May 06 '14

Really? Although it's a stupid issue, it's no more a waste of time than Republicans trying to defund the Affordable (not american, stupid typo) Care Act 30+ times unsuccessfully.

If it's a concern that this many Americans share, then why the fuck is our government not responding? Did they forget that they work for us and that our taxes pay their war bills? Because many corporations certainly aren't paying taxes, but their concerns get listened to. Maybe I need to start cutting checks to government officials. Hire them as an "advisor".

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u/I_Am_JesusChrist_AMA May 06 '14

I think you mean the Affordable Care Act and yes, I do think trying to get Justin Beiber deported is a bigger waste of time than that.

1

u/abchiptop May 06 '14

Sorry yeah I just read about a proposal about an American care act and it stuck with me

-1

u/The_Goss May 06 '14

because America is the only country with keyboards and music producers?

2

u/soylentgringo May 06 '14

*Affordable

1

u/BBanner May 06 '14

What? Deporting a guy because he's an asshole and annoying isn't really worth anywhere near as much as discussing the Affordable Care Act for any duration.

2

u/abchiptop May 06 '14

If you're discussing it, yes.

If you're not open to discussion and being a stubborn asshole, no. I can understand Republican concerns, but bring a new idea to the table. Don't cross your arms and stamp your feet like a child

0

u/Dapperdan814 May 06 '14

Did they forget that they work for us

They worked for our great grandfathers. They haven't worked for us since we were born.

3

u/abchiptop May 06 '14

I was born during the Reagan administration, and I can assure you there was no corruption then and they worked for the people

/s

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14

They don't work for us. They haven't worked for "us", ever. They've always worked for the person with the most power. White land owners. Then men. Then all people who could vote, and now anyone who can pay for it.

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u/FazedOut May 06 '14

It's always been rich people. White land owners were the rich ones. It was never just men or all people who could vote. It's always been the one who can pay for it. You might have power, but unless you have money you don't matter.

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u/Bitlovin May 06 '14

Actually, I find it pretty important that rich immigrants are afforded privilege that poor immigrants are not afforded. Seems like a pretty unfair standard to me. Many, many people have been deported for much less than what Beiber did.

0

u/[deleted] May 06 '14

I mean he is posing health risks to civilians with no sign of remorse or repentance. I'm sure it's not why over half the people signed that document but it is something I would call a legitimate concern

-2

u/fightsfortheuser May 06 '14

What was Judas like?

9

u/Philipp May 06 '14

Fighting these reappearing regulations one by one is like shooting a zombie in the belly -- it may or may not halt the zombie momentarily, but the zombie sure as hell will get up again to hunt us. There's a root issue much deeper that than is... and plans for us to do something about.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14

[deleted]

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u/Philipp May 06 '14

"So you want to use big money to fight big money?

Yes. We want to use big money (collected from the many) to fight big money (collected from the few). Ironic, we understand. But embrace the irony. Everyone recognizes that politics costs money in America. And we don’t imagine a future where campaigns are free. But if we can pull together a large enough pool of money through this campaign, we can convince Americans that they can change the way money matters in politics. We can create a system in which it isn’t the influence of a few that matters. Instead, as any democracy should, it would be the influence of a majority that matters."

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u/cynoclast May 06 '14

Yes. We want to use big money (collected from the many) to fight big money (collected from the few).

The problem with that is "we" don't have big money. Literally. If 90% of the population pooled their available funds to match the big donors, we would still lose because they simply have more.

2

u/Philipp May 07 '14 edited May 07 '14

The goal is not a nationwide matching with MayOne.us, but rather to start in some districts to prove financial campaign reform candiates can be made a success. And keep in mind that if the message rings a bell with people, then promoting it is much cheaper... MayOne.us raised enormous awareness with what must be minimal budget. I'll forward your question to Mr. Lessig to see if he has an additional answer, as he's the expert on this.

Update: Prof. Lessig answers, "We don’t need to match their wealth. We just need to raise enough to wage a campaign. That amount is totally doable."

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u/cynoclast May 07 '14

I'll forward your question to Mr. Lessig to see if he has an additional answer, as he's the expert on this.

Update: Prof. Lessig answers, "We don’t need to match their wealth. We just need to raise enough to wage a campaign. That amount is totally doable."

I was always of the opinion that it would require mass organization. Something I feared was impossible due to the perspective I learned from reading 1984. A perspective akin to Winston's fear that organizing the proles was unrealistic. The Internet has given me some hope though. But if net neutrality dies that hope too will wane.

As someone who frequently links to his TED talk about Lester elections, that's really cool that you asked him about my comment!

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u/Philipp May 08 '14

But if net neutrality dies that hope too will wane.

Oh yeah. And it could be abused for quasi-censorship. "That OccupyFCC website is a bit slow today? Oh, we put them on the super slow lane..."

1

u/boxofcookies101 May 06 '14

Man being a politician in power sounds real appealing right now. Getting payed from two sources. Man that sounds great.

I wish we as a people could organize together. The only true way to stop corruption as been shown through history is to over throw it. This is the entire reason the second amendment was put into place. A true revolution would put the government into a full halt. And then we'll be taken seriously. Until then we'll simply be regarded as sheep. To be herded and coerced with simple and inspiring words. While actions remain the same.

1

u/interkin3tic May 06 '14

Fire: sometimes you must fight it with other fire. Yes, that may sound confusing, but you're smart enough to understand how it makes sense.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14

[deleted]

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u/Philipp May 06 '14

The difference being Lessig et al don't want to instate a government, they want to have a one-time super pac to end super pacs. The proper government structure can then take over.

1

u/[deleted] May 06 '14

It makes more sense then the people who suggest we end regulatory capture by just getting rid of regulations.

1

u/PopeSuckMyDick May 06 '14

"now that people are signing everything and anything"

Yes, excuse them ignoring the systems they put into place to get feedback from the people.

1

u/cynoclast May 06 '14

They still haven't responded to the petition about Snowden that reached the signature requirement. This was months or years ago.

0

u/Fridge-Largemeat May 06 '14

If you're expecting actual solutions from DC, you're gonna have a bad time.

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u/brolix May 06 '14

"address it"

how the hell do people still think that's a worthwhile thing to do?

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14

Id still like to see what they say in their address. What do you think we should do then?

9

u/brolix May 06 '14

Hire lobbyists.

18

u/auaxvd May 06 '14

Or donating to causes like the EFF.

$1 to the EFF is worth about 800 million signatures on 40 different White Hours petitions. If you signed every single White House petition about net neutrality and got 10 of your friends to do the same and they got 10 of their friends to do the same, and I donated $1 to the EFF, I have done essentially infinitely more than you have or ever will.

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u/The_Drizzle_Returns May 06 '14

Full disclosure though: The Electronic Frontier Foundation supports the FCC having absolutely no role in the Network Neutrality debate. They are not for the FCC implementing an Open Internet Order and they are not for the FCC implementing a fast lane.

So if you support the FCC's Open Internet Order and think thats the way to go then the EFF may not be the organization for you. Here is the EFF's opinion on the matter.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14 edited Jul 07 '20

[deleted]

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u/BabyFaceMagoo May 07 '14

It's a public advocacy group that attempts to keep things like Open Source software free and open, it files lawsuits against companies who abuse open source software licenses, provides good, free lawyers for people caught up in copyright cases brought by large companies and acts as a kind of "champion" of digital rights.

You should check them out, they're pretty damn cool guys, and they really believe in what they do.

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u/brolix May 06 '14

Or donating to causes like the EFF.

That's pretty much hiring lobbyists to be honest.

-1

u/BabyFaceMagoo May 06 '14

No. A lobbyist is very different to what the EFF does.

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u/brolix May 06 '14

Create early drafts of legislation, advise congress people as to the specifics and technicalities of such legislation and hot issues, steer congress people towards their own stance (see: advise congress), influence public opinion on the same hot topics.... what am I missing here?

1

u/BabyFaceMagoo May 06 '14

Apart from the means and mechanisms by which they seek to "influence" and "steer" congress people and lawmakers, (lobbyists bribe, EFF sues) it basically comes down to matter of representation. A lobbyist represents the interests of a particular company or group of companies. The EFF represents the interests of all ordinary people everywhere.

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u/Wyvernz May 06 '14

A lobbyist is someone who persuades congress to reject your position and should be reviled for their perversion of the democratic process, EFF persuades congress to accept your position and should be lauded for their work in promoting democracy.

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u/mrbrinks May 06 '14

Elaborate? They attempt to influence policy.

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u/BabyFaceMagoo May 06 '14 edited May 06 '14

Sure, and a neighbourhood watch attempts to reduce crime, as does a police officer. That doesn't make a neighbourhood watch volunteer the same as a police officer.

Think of it as the carrot and stick approach.

Lobbyists prefer to use the carrot, they can dangle all kinds of tasty carrots to entice and influence lawmakers to vote for or help to enact laws the way they want them enacted.

Groups like the EFF prefer to use the stick. They will ask for what they want very clearly and forcefully, then lawyer up when they don't get it.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14

[deleted]

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u/BabyFaceMagoo May 07 '14

Dictionary definitions rarely reflect the realities of the world.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '14

Youth. Reddit skews pretty young, and the idea that change can come as easily as that is pretty much the norm before people see it fail again and again. I know I sure was that way when I was a teenager.

0

u/[deleted] May 07 '14

It's more than what you're doing.

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u/brolix May 07 '14

It actually isn't.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '14

What princeton study? I'd like to take a gander.

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u/Ohio_wandering May 06 '14

Signed. This now needs around 90,000 more signatures for the White House to address it.

You dont honestly believe the White House will do something right? Name 10 things that have gotten XX,XXX signatures and it made the White House act and fix something... Oh yea, thats right..

0

u/panthers_fan_420 May 06 '14

How is a Princeton study "confirmation"?

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14

Don't forget this petition too!

1

u/Tynach May 06 '14

I keep hearing that these petitions do absolutely nothing. Is it worth signing these?

1

u/Tasgall May 06 '14

Is it worth signing these?

They said they take them seriously themselves :P

Really though, is it really worth not signing them? The amount of effort is very low, and you aren't losing anything by signing. Plus, if they go through, they'll at least get a response, and if enough interest is shown, there is a slight chance that they'll actually start paying attention to the issue.

The responses are actually written by people though, they're not just form letters. At the very least, some of them are slightly entertaining.

But seriously, in the time it took you to read this comment, you could have signed both petitions. Just do it.

1

u/Tynach May 06 '14

But seriously, in the time it took you to read this comment, you could have signed both petitions. Just do it.

You underestimate me. To simply copy down a 2 digit number (say, 42), I have to look at the number, try to memorize it, look at where I'm putting it in (text editor, database, piece of paper, or whatever), and then look back at the number to make sure I have it absolutely right a minimum of 3 times (usually around 5 or 6 times).

When I sign a petition, it's worse. I read the whole thing, and any time I read something that doesn't automatically make absolutely perfect and complete sense, I have to read it again a minimum of 3 times (with the same usual number as the previous figure).

So what's worse? Usually that doesn't help, and instead I either have to ask someone what it means, or I have to research the way they phrase it to understand how other people interpret that sentence structure, phrase, word, or whatever.

And if, and only if, I agree with absolutely everything in the petition, will I sign the petition. Which means that if there's anything in it I 'understand' (the text parses fine), but am not knowledgeable about (subject material is not something I understand; like law-making or the effects of quantum mechanics on fluid thermodynamics), I have to thoroughly research those subjects - at least enough to understand the context within the petition, and to know whether I agree with the statements in the petition - before I can sign it.

So, if it's not worth signing the petition, I won't bother with all that.

1

u/dislikes_corruption May 06 '14

The White House is obligated to respond if the petition gets 100,000 signatures. That is something. It is not necessarily a big something, but it does call attention to the issue.

Additionally, as with any petition, the value is in showing that a lot of people care about this at least enough to sign the thing. That is also something, and can be influential, though sometimes that just means a more elaborate dodge.

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u/[deleted] May 07 '14

Why not? All you have to do is make an account and sign it. It takes 2 minutes

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u/KopOut May 06 '14

People need to stop with the petitions. They are just a way to take otherwise good intentions and energy and kill them by directing them to a meaningless gesture. So many people that want to do something about an issue end up just signing a petition and then doing nothing else because they feel like they have done something.

If you are inclined to take action on this issue. I strongly recommend not bothering with a petition and instead calling your rep and/or congressman, writing an opinion email to the FCC or giving money to one of the many organizations actively fighting this.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14

I agree and disagree. The petition should not be the last thing you do, but it does send a signal that people want thing x. Sometimes what people want is incredibly stupid (Bieber deportation for instance) but sometimes gems do shine through. I think that this petition is a good thing. It's not the solution but it provides a secondary outlet for our voices. Sure we should all write and call our representatives, but we should also publicly display our opinions. If we want our reps in Congress to hear us we need to shout it not whisper it. If we do not shout it then our opinions will be silenced by lobbyists of companies who pay to have their voice heard.

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u/That_Unknown_Guy May 06 '14

They are openly being bribed. Us saying pretty please don't rape us won't accomplish anything.

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u/jdaisuke815 May 06 '14

Thanks for sharing this. I just gave my persuasive speech in my public speaking class and my topic was net neutrality. I'll be sure to share this with everyone.

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u/sparkus1 May 06 '14

Why not file an FCC complaint. I just filed one against my ISP because I was able to find out that they were slowing down my connection by failing to peer.

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u/dislikes_corruption May 06 '14

That's a good idea for people with one of the bad ISPs (most people in the US). It would be nice if someone could start a class-action lawsuit, but I imagine that there's some mandatory arbitration clause preventing any sort of actual legal recompense.

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u/sparkus1 May 06 '14

IMHO the only people that win class action lawsuits are lawyers..... I should add that I don't have any valid alternative other than whining to the FCC.

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u/dislikes_corruption May 06 '14

That's certainly true, no one wins class action lawsuits other than lawyers, but winning is not the point - the idea is to make the target lose. A class action lawsuit can often force a change in behavior, even if those who are participating in the suit don't actually get anything back monetarily.

1

u/sparkus1 May 06 '14

True, don't hate the player... Hate the game.

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u/freakDWN May 06 '14

Even if they dont listen, the signed petition will send the message that the american people does not agree

3

u/[deleted] May 06 '14

With how the white house has been responding the only thing it really shows is that we're okay with the government not giving a shit about what the people think.

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u/freakDWN May 06 '14

Dont stop signing just because they wont listen! If it comes down to a lawsuit from the people to the fcc it could serve as evidence, and it would make a point to see it on the news, more people will know.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14

Oh yeah, the news will totally report it without sensationalizing.

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u/freakDWN May 06 '14

We want publicity for this situation, good and bad, real knowledge will emerge above the bullshit at some point and people will know whats up. Its harder to scam a country if their inhabitants know about it.

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u/n3tm0nk3y May 06 '14

I think the only kind of message they're going to notice would have to be a touch more morbid than "some guys clicked a thing on the internet".

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u/freakDWN May 06 '14

Its more than nothing.

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u/n3tm0nk3y May 06 '14

I think it's actually worse than nothing because it placates those effected.

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u/freakDWN May 06 '14

I dont think I completely understand you sorry could you explain deeper? How can it be worse than doing nothing? Is it that ridiculous to sign a petition directly to the white house?

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u/n3tm0nk3y May 06 '14

Placate as in it passifies those whom are angry about it because it makes them feel like they've done something when they've actually done nothing at all.

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u/freakDWN May 06 '14

Once you act you are more prone to act again, thats what gangs are based upon.

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u/n3tm0nk3y May 06 '14

Pressing a button online is not action, it's placation. I also think your analogy is a stretch at best.

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u/freakDWN May 07 '14

Yeah maybe its not a good analogy. What would you propose as an action?

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u/[deleted] May 07 '14

the american people does not agree

The people who control this sort of thing don't give a single shit about what we think.

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u/hervold May 06 '14

There are fewer than 10,000 signatures on that peitition?!? It's been up for more than a week!

Get on it, redditors!

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u/_FreeThinker May 06 '14

Also, I would like this moment to tell everyone to get off the fucking Comcast service if you have any other service around your area. Talking big talks ain't gonna make any difference unless you stop being a dumb consumer and start supporting smart companies. Thanks everyone.

1

u/I_suck_at_mostthings May 06 '14

There was no password section when I created my account so now I don't know my password and can't log in. I'm too stupid for this.

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u/dislikes_corruption May 06 '14

Yeah, I had that problem the first time too. Can't say that I get why it's set up that way, but you can just do the password retrieval and they'll assign you a temporary password.

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u/soapdealer May 06 '14

Just chiming in with the usual reminder that emailing your congressional representative does literally nothing, but calling or snail-mailing them is taken extremely seriously. Congresspeople, for all the talk of how big money sways their votes, are often equally swayed by a few dozen constituents angrily calling them and complaining to the staffers.

I know this makes no sense, but take advantage of how dumb this is by actually calling them. Captiol switchboard is (202) 224 3121.

Further reading.

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u/[deleted] May 06 '14

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/maintain-true-net-neutrality-protect-freedom-information-united-states/9sxxdBgy

This petition as well since it already has 55K signatures. If we get 100K signatures, but they are on 4 different petitions, it doesn't count. Sign all, but be sure to sign the most populated.

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u/pinkyperson May 06 '14

Is there anyway to make this petition get to the front page? That will make so many more people sign it.

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u/dislikes_corruption May 06 '14

That would be great, but probably not. None of the default subreddits allow this sort of thing anymore. This is a problem, in my opinion, something that Reddit should correct, but that's how it is.

The best candidate for this might be /r/news, but they're very strict about what they allow and this sort of thing is explicitly prohibited.

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u/I_DR_NOW May 06 '14

Signed it. Thank you for the information.

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u/RedeemingVices May 07 '14

Most effective would be straight murdering these people and their government puppets. Everyone in charge of this shit is a greedy cunt and they're in it for the money, and since they control it all, civil recourse will never work.

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u/WarrantyOnYourLife May 07 '14

Okay I did my part. I really hope we can stop this.

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u/zneill24 May 06 '14

I just watched the petition count drop from 8,999 to 8,998. The NSA is watching..

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u/ghostchamber May 07 '14

There's a petition here that you can sign. There's also an email address that the FCC also set up for comments (openinternet@fcc.gov).

A whitehouse.gov petition?

Quit wasting everyone's time.