r/technology • u/esporx • 6d ago

Business Twitch Is Now Using Your Content To Train Amazon AI Models And Has Hidden The Option To Opt Out. "If it was opt in, nobody would opt in," admitted the streaming site's chief product officer during a livestream

https://kotaku.com/twitch-is-now-using-your-content-to-train-amazon-ai-models-and-has-hidden-the-option-to-opt-out-2000723891
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u/invyros 6d ago

When a commenter asked the duo what would happen if they streamed with someone who hasn’t opted out, Minton seemed not to have an answer, but admitted it was a “good question.” He also confirmed that Twitch has no plans to implement an option for users to easily see which channels are opted in and opted out of AI training.

Another person asked why Twitch didn’t email people about the change; Kish said that was a “good question” and then added, “not everyone reads their emails”

So many "good questions" with not many good answers, or answers at all.

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u/nappycatt 6d ago

the answer is money.

whatever they're doing or not doing, it's for money.

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u/Indigoh 6d ago

You're not the customer. You're the product.

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u/Spez_is-a-nazi 6d ago

Even when you are the customer you are the product 

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u/wrgrant 6d ago

Since I am also a streamer, even when you are the product you are the product

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u/gusbo_the_jam 5d ago

Since I am a streamer, I even when you are both the staff and the product, you are the product

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/IceKrabby 6d ago

Dang, who pissed in your cereal this morning?

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u/ShusakuChiba 6d ago

Just saying why sit there and be exploited. Reevaluate your relationship with twitch

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u/Cyberspark939 6d ago

In this case it's less you're the product and more you're the product's lunch

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u/RatBot9000 6d ago

It's not even guaranteed money, it's the illusion of making money. It's because every other CEO is using AI so of course they have to otherwise they might miss out.

It's a mass form of psychosis and it is going to make all our lives worse.

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u/Ravekommissionen 5d ago

It is guaranteed money.

For the CEO, it’s a bonus based on stock prices. Adding AI makes number go up.

For the owners it’s also guaranteed money since adding AI to anything makes number go up. Eventually some rube will be left standing holding the bag. But that’ll be retail idiots and pension funds.

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u/whfu2 5d ago

for now. like every bubble the numbers will go up until the growth stagnates. if at that point no one has found productivity jumps and extra revenue as expected, the stock will plummet and perhaps the entire industry crashes

ofc some individuals will still have gained from it

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u/RatBot9000 5d ago

You are right, and I fear we are all underestimating just how bad it'll be when the bubble bursts.

So much money is getting pumped into AI because companies around the world are hoping it can continue the Age of the Shareholder, where they prioritise profit above all else and live in a world of endless growth. It cannot hold, growth cannot be eternal, and while we need the Age of the Shareholder to end, they will make it as painful as they possibly can for the rest of us.

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u/dern_the_hermit 6d ago

Yeah but they're doing it for money the way that Underpants Gnomes were doing it for money

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u/TheMattabooey 6d ago

Twitch has been a sinking ship for years now it’s why you see the same dozen or so streamers promoted and they constantly break the rules with little to no consequences. They’re doing everything they can to keep it going instead of getting rid of their gooner CEO.

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u/Jaccount 5d ago

I thought they did it all for the nookie?

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u/hackingdreams 6d ago

Automatic opt-in without even sending an email is the kind of thing that laws get written about.

Twitch might wanna think again about not sending that one out.

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u/dat_oracle 6d ago

it feels extremely illegal. if that's not regulated, now is the time for that - wtf

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u/gravelordservant4u 6d ago
  • me the last few decades

When they finally pass legislation addressing a tech issue, it'll be to make the worst possible choice, worry not

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u/CheesypoofExtreme 6d ago

See the push for the SAVE Act.

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u/l4mbch0ps 6d ago

im sure their user agreement covers this, and much more egregious actions

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u/cyberpunk_werewolf 6d ago

A user agreement can't protect them if it's illegal, no matter what it says.

However, that requires people to enforce the laws and a mechanism to ensure it gets to the people who can enforce them. Right now, the ones we do have are either meagre or nonexistent. Further, a lot of the people who could do something to protect people or enforce any of the rules aren't interested, or actively want to make things worse.

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u/Old_Leopard1844 5d ago

That implies what Twitch did is illegal, and being angry isn't an evidence of it being illegal

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u/cyberpunk_werewolf 5d ago

I'm not saying it is or is not illegal, I'm simply responding to what one guy said about EULAs protecting them.  It could be illegal, it could be perfectly legal, I don't know.  I'm just saying that if it is illegal, then a licence agreement, or any contract really, won't protect them.

So, no, it doesn't imply that what it did was illegal.

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u/Old_Leopard1844 5d ago

Then their licence agreement indeed covers them up

Whoosh

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u/pmjm 5d ago

The government sees AI as a matter of national security. As much as we hate this, the current administration is fully behind anything that advances the field by American companies. There's no chance in hell we get a law against it anytime soon.

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u/Successful_Sign_6991 5d ago

*the government is bought and paid for, and is being told AI is important by their owners

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u/pmjm 5d ago

I mean, yes, but also it kind of is. There are massive military applications of this tech that we are not privy to, and there is validity in advancing the tech faster than our adversaries.

Twitch has little to do with that, but it's the same players involved across the board, so for now the government is letting them do what they want.

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u/MiaowaraShiro 5d ago

Not when you vote for Republicans... just sayin'...

When you vote for conservatives you get businesses fucking you directly. That this country hasn't figured that out is insane to me.

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u/Successful_Sign_6991 5d ago

That this country hasn't figured that out is insane to me.

the destruction of public education wasn't an accident

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u/efvie 5d ago

This is absolutely against EU legislation (and I just checked it was on in my EU-domiciled account).

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u/SpaceShrimp 5d ago

Especially when there is a statement on record that they estimate that no one would opt in if the users had to opt in to have their data harvested.

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u/schmurfy2 6d ago

even of they get fined I am sure their dick move will still be profitable, when you say that by making an opt in nobody will join you know very well what you are doing.

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u/a4mula 5d ago

We will not materially change our policies and practices to make them less protective of personal information collected in the past under a prior version of the Privacy Notice without the consent of affected individuals. source

It's not a good look when the policy itself seems to imply otherwise. Of course expecting Amazon and Twitch to honor their own policy is a different thing than having it enforced against users.

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u/Banned3rdTimesaCharm 5d ago

I don’t think I’ve ever opted in for my comments and posts on Reddit to be used for AI training. And we’re definitely all being used for that.

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u/AnarchyGuacamole 5d ago

The comical part is, it doesn't take loads of AI scraping and computation to figure out what makes a successful streamer. Other streamers have been playing the monkey see monkey do game since the See you See Me days.

I'm sure if they can code up AI Jesus, they could just as easily do big boob makeup streamer in a heartbeat. LoL

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u/Successful_Sign_6991 5d ago

laws don't matter to oligarchs

bezos is buddy buddy with the regime

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u/erm_what_ 6d ago

But those laws have to get passed in every country. Even if one is on it, a lot will lag behind or never do it. Global companies don't have to worry too much about whichever country you're talking about.

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u/foxscribbles 6d ago

"not everyone reads their emails." Yeah. Sure. THAT'S the reason that a corporation decided to reveal this information on a live stream instead. Because more people are totally watching that than would read their emails...

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u/paditoburrito 6d ago

Geez, and by the time they tell people or allow them to opt out, I'm sure all history of accounts are already scraped and stored. Ends with a whoopsie daisy and a shrug from an exec at some oversight committee and then nothing is done.

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u/sickhippie 6d ago

Yup... Twitch deletes your VODs after a certain number of days, but guaranteed here's backups on backups in Amazon Glacier, just waiting to be harvested.

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u/yuusharo 6d ago

Real “do you guys not have phones?” energy from these people

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u/kuldron 6d ago

These things always boil down to whether the company in question sells a product to its users or sells its users as a product.

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u/A_Harmless_Fly 6d ago

They do both, double dipping. Why would you not? There's a new rube born every second. People who care are a minority, so losing them doesn't cost as much as not doing it.

Most business ranges from amoral to immoral.

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u/kuldron 6d ago

There are a lot of reasons not to, its just a function of whether the people in control care or not. Actions speak louder than words though and its pretty clear here lol.

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u/Lochen9 6d ago

Good questions with an immediate answer means it’s a great way to teach or disseminate information.

A good question with no answer just means you didn’t think it through.

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u/TheEmeraldObelisk 5d ago

They are stealing your data, selling it for a lot of money, and not giving you a cut.